Black LS1 T/A

Good info, Team ZR-1.

That seems consistent with the thrust of the EPA document.

The plan would seem to be to keep your car in good tune and ensure all OBD-II tests pass, and they are all turned ON.

IMO, editing the PCM is not illegal...
Trying to defeat the emissions testing/requirements is what is illegal. <img src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" border="0">

Orange Krush

I know absolutley nothing about this LS1 edit stuff,well except what I glean from your posts! <img src="images/icons/confused.gif" border="0"> To me it sounds as though everyone should be pulling the factory computer out of the car and putting it somewhere safe and replacing it with either a junkyard unit or a dealer replacement(tuned with LS1 edit) till at least 30 days before your sticker is due and then swap back in the factory unit for warranty work or state inspections! <img src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" border="0"> Am I even close?

[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: Orange Krush ]</p>

Black LS1 T/A

Again, I think the REAL answer is to USE LS1-Edit to tune your car where it is running optimally.

The stock tuning might actually allow codes to be tripped because the 'puter data did not account for things like bigger injectors that might make you run too rich w/o tuning for it, etc.

Team ZR-1

With LS1-Edit the best path is to first download the stock flash code from the PCM into your P/C,
Save it, then use it as a template within LS1-edit and make your calibration changes.
Save it and then upload it to your PCM.

Use that and then when having to have virgin flash code running just upload the stock one back on again and when done upload your version onto PCM again.

Or as you said, pay about $200 for a 2nd PCM and use it with your custom calibrations and swap PCMs when need be.
For F-body, PCM is a simple swap, with our Corvettes being PCM is buried, makes it a bit more work to do the PCM swap.

WEASEL

Black LS1 T/A

Does this look like it will affect any NON-emissions counties in North Carolina? I know the ones that are current and slated through 2006.

I'm in Union but Anson's right next door and they're not currently on any lists. I'm at the threshold fixing to ring the doorbell on big power mods and need some info fast.

I had inspections covered if need be until I read the previous posts. Would I be able to escape this by finding a way to register my car in another county?

Also, regarding using a virgin PCM...wouldn't putting a vigin PCM in a car without (pick one) Cats, EGR, AIR, or with big cams, headers, etc...immediately set codes that would cause the test to fail even if you had a way around the sniffer?

Someone needs to find a way to hook up a PCM/Battery/OBDII plug in a box. <img src="gr_grin.gif" border="0"> Scan the VIN, flip a switch, plug it in, smell the flowers, hug a tree, pass the test, go home!

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: WEASEL ]</p>

Black LS1 T/A

I don't know any Inspection Stations (even buddys) that will touch a car registered in one of the counties designated for stricter standards. Because these counties are tied into a system that closely monitors vehicles' compliance, they are almost sure to be shut down.

If you can register it in another county, don't you have to show residence in that county?

I just don't know. <img src="gr_sad.gif" border="0">

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

I appreciate the comments and insights into this topic. I've learn a lot so far, guess that's why this is my favorite auto board on the net!

I THINK it's just a matter of time before all OBD-II cars get scanned in North Carolina because the scan test is far cheaper than the sniffer test. This will take some time but I'll bet within 5 years it will be state wide.

I'd like to know a would a B1 cam fail the scan test? I'm told by a very good source, B1 will show misfire codes on occassion around idle. Will B1's usually pass the scan with the misfires? As I understand it the misfires are caused by reversion in the intake, diluting the intake charge with exhaust gas at low rpm. This dirty intake charge doesn't burn well and triggers the misfire code.

Can tweaking with LS1-Edit get B1 to work well enough to pass the scan? Additional insights greatly appreciated.

Would head work have any effect on the scan?

My idea has been leave the PCM as stock as possible for the scan test, and not turn off stuff like the EGR, rear cats etc.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I’m just going to find out the hard way. When test time comes I’m going to go in there with my fully tuned ‘puter. If they fail me, then I’ll have my local tuner turn back on my EGR and O2 codes and leave everything else alone. All I’m running is a B1 and I know it’ll pass if I run through cats (just for the test), and I still have a full EGR system so that won’t through codes either. I’m not going to bother turning PO300 on again, because I doubt they’ll be testing for that. Anyway, I'm allowed 2 "tests" to be shut down for my 2000 car, correct?

Black LS1 T/A

2 codes for 1996-2000 model years and 1 code after that:

"Basis for Failure or Rejection

Unless otherwise noted in this guidance, a vehicle should be failed for any of the
following five reasons, with the exception of the last (for which the appropriate action is
rejection):*11

1) It is a 1996 or newer vehicle and the data link connector (DLC) is missing, has
been tampered (*12) with, or is otherwise inoperable. (Action: Failure)

2) The MIL does not illuminate at all when the ignition key is turned to the KOEO
position. The MIL should illuminate (on some vehicles, only for a brief period of
time) when the ignition key is turned to the KOEO position. (Action: Failure)

3) If the MIL illuminates continuously or flashes after the engine has been started,
even if no fault codes are present, since this could indicate a serial data link failure.(*13) (Action: Failure)

4) Any DTCs are present and the MIL status, as indicated by the scan tool, is
commanded on, regardless of whether or not the MIL is actually illuminated.
Do not fail the vehicle if DTCs are present and the MIL status, as indicated by
the scan tool, is off, because such non-MIL-triggering DTCs are considered
“pending” and frequently self clear without requiring repair of the vehicle. MIL
command status must be determined with the engine running. (Action: Failure)

5) The number of OBD system monitors showing a “not ready” status exceeds the
number allowed for the model year in question. (Action: Rejection)(*14)"

Here's note 14:

"(*14) Although earlier requirements stipulated that OBD-equipped vehicles be rejected from further testing if any monitor was “not ready,” EPA has revised these readiness criteria to allow states to not reject MY 1996-2000 vehicles with two or fewer unset readiness codes, or MY 2001 and newer vehicles with no more than one unset readiness code. The complete MIL check and scan should still be run in all cases, however, and the vehicle should still be failed if one or more DTCs are set and the MIL is commanded on. The vehicle should also continue to be rejected if the OBD computer does not set readiness codes for 3 or more monitors on MY 1996-2000 vehicles, or two or more monitors on MY 2001 and newer vehicles. Readiness codes in general, and the specific codes and conditions covered by the April 5, 2001 amendments will be discussed in more detail under a separate section of this guidance."

Hope that helps... <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Black LS1 T/A and Team ZR1 you guys have been very helpful!! <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> Thanks for all the good info you guys have provided <img src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" border="0">

Black LS1 T/A

That's what we should all be here for to learn and share. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

[quote]Originally posted by Team ZR-1:
<strong>I believe people are missing the difference between "Failing" and "Rejected"

If the car is rejected, that means your a real badboy :-) and EPA feels you or someone has violated EPA law and you simply just do not get to the end of the line for a re-test.

You can be fined the $2,500 and car cannot get re-tagged, thus fail is some nature fault, reject is a clear failure of EPA functions in a non compliant state due to actions by something other then normal wear/tear.

EPA is refusing to renew snog station's yearly license if it is found those stations are not reporting clear violations of EPA mandates.

So what I am eluding to is do not think you can afford failing the tests, some states are going as far as checking car owners social security number to see if where the carowner claims to live is the same as where they work to catch those trying to smog test in a county they really do not live in.

Being the I/M 240 tests are new to many states, its a zoo right now due to smog testers not up to speed yet on what the proper methods are but EPA is changing that by refusing to renew smog station's license if testers do not prove they went and passed a OBD-II training class, thus where your car may pass now, it may fail once the testers have the training and are wiser.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So then what are we supposed to do? Get the car re-tuned just to turn a couple of codes back on just to be sure you’ll pass?

I don’t want to spend the money to do that.

I think all this “fining” and “fraud” charges are over hyped right now. If you fail or are rejected then get a reflash done and go back. I don’t see the issue here? I don’t see how they can deny you a retest after repairs are done. What do they expect you to do with the car? Junk it? I don’t think it’s going to be as bad as all that.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Plus it says I can have two systems showing “not ready” on my '00 car. We still haven’t defined what that means. Are they talking about DTCs not being turned on, or OBD systems not being turned on? For example, if I have my rear O2 codes off and my EGR code off, is that three “systems” off?

Team ZR-1

I believe people are missing the difference between "Failing" and "Rejected"

If the car is rejected, that means your a real badboy :-) and EPA feels you or someone has violated EPA law and you simply just do not get to the end of the line for a re-test.

You can be fined the $2,500 and car cannot get re-tagged, thus fail is some nature fault, reject is a clear failure of EPA functions in a non compliant state due to actions by something other then normal wear/tear.

EPA is refusing to renew snog station's yearly license if it is found those stations are not reporting clear violations of EPA mandates.

So what I am eluding to is do not think you can afford failing the tests, some states are going as far as checking car owners social security number to see if where the carowner claims to live is the same as where they work to catch those trying to smog test in a county they really do not live in.

Being the I/M 240 tests are new to many states, its a zoo right now due to smog testers not up to speed yet on what the proper methods are but EPA is changing that by refusing to renew smog station's license if testers do not prove they went and passed a OBD-II training class, thus where your car may pass now, it may fail once the testers have the training and are wiser.

Black LS1 T/A

ttt

For z28kid98's perusal. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />

99 Black Bird T/A

iTrader: (4)

ttt

Anyone have additional info to share on this topic since we discussed last month?

C5 YA

Here in Mass when my car went thru inspection, they hooked up a OBDII scanner on my car. Not sure what it was looking for other than a VIN#. Car passed w/ no problem and even w/ Powerloader installed.

Worse case scenario is to flash your program to stock before you go for inspection followed by a hard drive before entering the inspection station. Then it's not a problem.

Team ZR-1

If you have a good PCM scanner it should have a I/M button you click on and it shows you what conditions the OBD-II 240 tests are in.

Thus you can always tell if your car would pass or fail the new I/M smog tests before going to smog shop.

Being these are new smog tests and most smog stations will be screwed up in understanding I/M 240, you could run your scanner that day before going and print out the I/M test results so that if you know you pass them and they fail you, you can produce the passed results to show them they did something incorrect or better yet fire up your scanner and prove they were wrong.

pontiacperson

bought a 2000 t/a with no catalytic converters and a tampered obd2. the inspector tolld me that the service engine light did not turn on during inspection. i was mad when i found out that the computer had been tampered with but is it possible that the *** hole that tampered with it not do it correctly?

Ed Wright

iTrader: (1)

Done correctly it will show the monitors ran & passed. Makes no difference which tuning software is used.