Wow, talk about an IDIOT....
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From: Katy, TX
Wow, talk about an IDIOT.... I was reading through the LS1Edit mailing list archives today for some reason, when I came across these two nuggets of wisdom..
First, a nice jab at HPTuners..
... and that's not all !! He bashes on EFILive too:
Anyone who knows who this guy is, already knows he is completely clueless. Now the rest of you do too
Not only does he bash the products, but he does so with COMPLETELY false information... This guy is actually getting people to come to him for PCM tuning?? * SCARY *
Folks, this is the same guy that believes you DO NOT need a chassis/engine dyno or a wideband oxygen sensor to tune an engine, because the PCM has a "Delivered engine torque" scan tool pid, and a "Commanded air/fuel ratio" pid
First, a nice jab at HPTuners..
Originally Posted by Team ZR-1
hptuners is a POS
Of all the tuner packages I have tested its on the bottom of the list.
The GUI is a joke, some tables are bogus, math errors, user docs poor at best.
Its claims to be fast as to flashing was a red herring, its claims not to fry PCMs, false,
the scanner is nothing more then buying the drivers from paul in ausseland
Considering they had LS1edit to benchmark their design on they did a **** poor job.
Funny when it comes out they are part of Superchips and anyone having tuned supercharged cars knows what slug tunes they put out.
The ONLY reason hptuners is known is the kickback supporting vendor fees they pay on a few forums and I hate to tell you once you get off the kiddie forums most people use LS1/2 edit or Tunercat.
A tuner product's user interface has zip to do with good and valid tuning, it does nothing but peek and poke values and in fact products like hptuners make people more uneducated as to proper tuning because they believe those scanner/tune tables really do what they claim rather then learn what each function and table really does.
I constantly see people jump from one tuner product to the next and always blaming the last product as why their tunes sucked when its who is changing the values that makes or breaks the tune and not some pretty GUI.
There are people who use nothing more then a hex editor that do better tuning then the cute looking tuner products.
If you really research this you will see a hugh upswing since hptuners or efilive came out of cars having many more DTCs trip, failing smog tests and problems selling the car due to those problems.
JR
Team ZR-1 http://teamzr1.com/main.html
Of all the tuner packages I have tested its on the bottom of the list.
The GUI is a joke, some tables are bogus, math errors, user docs poor at best.
Its claims to be fast as to flashing was a red herring, its claims not to fry PCMs, false,
the scanner is nothing more then buying the drivers from paul in ausseland
Considering they had LS1edit to benchmark their design on they did a **** poor job.
Funny when it comes out they are part of Superchips and anyone having tuned supercharged cars knows what slug tunes they put out.
The ONLY reason hptuners is known is the kickback supporting vendor fees they pay on a few forums and I hate to tell you once you get off the kiddie forums most people use LS1/2 edit or Tunercat.
A tuner product's user interface has zip to do with good and valid tuning, it does nothing but peek and poke values and in fact products like hptuners make people more uneducated as to proper tuning because they believe those scanner/tune tables really do what they claim rather then learn what each function and table really does.
I constantly see people jump from one tuner product to the next and always blaming the last product as why their tunes sucked when its who is changing the values that makes or breaks the tune and not some pretty GUI.
There are people who use nothing more then a hex editor that do better tuning then the cute looking tuner products.
If you really research this you will see a hugh upswing since hptuners or efilive came out of cars having many more DTCs trip, failing smog tests and problems selling the car due to those problems.
JR
Team ZR-1 http://teamzr1.com/main.html
Originally Posted by Team ZR-1
If your going with Efilive you better be prepared to do indepth testing of it for if you do you'll find all types of bugs and incorrect values.
Its interesting how products designed outside the USA and have no clue as to our SAE/EPA where they cannot even convert metric to english values correctly would be used to hang your hat on in doing correct tuning. Because of this their product has never passed EPA or GM testing
Their chart/graph mode looks like a kid wrote it.
Even Efilive would require 2 cables as you explained your tuning/test methods.
As to data logging efilive is constrained to how many concurrent PIDS can be recorded, does not support all GM enhanced PIDs and is not very fast and be prepared for connection to PCM dropping randomly.
If you really want a true scanner I suggest looking at the GM and EPA approved scanner by Ease that supports OBD-II, VPW and CAN speeds
As to tuning 2 cars if that's all your doing it would be a waste of time paying for 2 tuning interfaces for the fact is after the 1st car has been flashed it really needs a good couple of hours driving to allow the PCM to relearn and adapt so scanning during that time is a waste of time.
JR
Team ZR-1 http://teamzr1.com/main.html
Its interesting how products designed outside the USA and have no clue as to our SAE/EPA where they cannot even convert metric to english values correctly would be used to hang your hat on in doing correct tuning. Because of this their product has never passed EPA or GM testing
Their chart/graph mode looks like a kid wrote it.
Even Efilive would require 2 cables as you explained your tuning/test methods.
As to data logging efilive is constrained to how many concurrent PIDS can be recorded, does not support all GM enhanced PIDs and is not very fast and be prepared for connection to PCM dropping randomly.
If you really want a true scanner I suggest looking at the GM and EPA approved scanner by Ease that supports OBD-II, VPW and CAN speeds
As to tuning 2 cars if that's all your doing it would be a waste of time paying for 2 tuning interfaces for the fact is after the 1st car has been flashed it really needs a good couple of hours driving to allow the PCM to relearn and adapt so scanning during that time is a waste of time.
JR
Team ZR-1 http://teamzr1.com/main.html
Anyone who knows who this guy is, already knows he is completely clueless. Now the rest of you do too
Not only does he bash the products, but he does so with COMPLETELY false information... This guy is actually getting people to come to him for PCM tuning?? * SCARY *Folks, this is the same guy that believes you DO NOT need a chassis/engine dyno or a wideband oxygen sensor to tune an engine, because the PCM has a "Delivered engine torque" scan tool pid, and a "Commanded air/fuel ratio" pid
I met a guy at our local race track that sounds like this tool. He even said we need to remove TM from Jen's race car, as he can hear the car lay down after the shifts.
He swore by LS1-Edit and said it was the best "... it is even what GM uses to tune their cars ...". 
Had no idea what EFI or HPT was, and didn't think a scanner was necessary. 
Ive replied to him but they censor the **** so he wont see any of my responses. class act maybe he will see this thread and drop by and give us some more wisdom
Last edited by HumpinSS; Dec 14, 2005 at 03:05 PM.
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Originally Posted by jub jub
I read a thread where he claimed you never have to touch the VE table on a head and cam car. I knew then that something was wrong with his way of thinking! 
hey now! that cant be right... i mean, jeff creech tunes H/C cars and doesnt touch the VE table....
(sorry, im just currently getting bashed by JC fans for saying something "unfavorable" about him on a local board... lol)
Originally Posted by MrDude_1
hey now! that cant be right... i mean, jeff creech tunes H/C cars and doesnt touch the VE table....
(sorry, im just currently getting bashed by JC fans for saying something "unfavorable" about him on a local board... lol)
(sorry, im just currently getting bashed by JC fans for saying something "unfavorable" about him on a local board... lol)
Thanks for posting, I think I'm going to sell all my HP Tuners stuff and go back to LS1 Edit so I can beat the hell out of myself trying to use "ALL OF THEIR TABLES"
Yeah right!!!
I am very happy I made the switch when I did.
LS1 Edit was great, but that time has passed about 3 years ago....
Yeah right!!!
I am very happy I made the switch when I did.
LS1 Edit was great, but that time has passed about 3 years ago....
Originally Posted by MeentSS02
Why do it the right way when you can just take their money and blame it on something else?
Or tell the customer to live with the effects of a big cam
Originally Posted by foff667
guaranteed 9 out of 10 Pro tuners don't ever touch the VE tables...every tune ive seen from a pro so far hasnt touched the ve table. Its not that you can't do it that way its about doing it the right way.
Originally Posted by NicD
C'mon now, if they haven't touched the VE table they aren't much of a pro, and working at a tuner shop doesn't instantly qualify you to be one. This is a flawed statement.
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 618
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From: San Diego
So much sarcasm in this thread, I don't know what to make of it... 
Does anyone know if they make a conversion kit to hook up my wiring harness to an abbacus?
Does anyone know if they make a conversion kit to hook up my wiring harness to an abbacus?
Last edited by Bombguy99z28; Dec 14, 2005 at 05:19 PM.