too much timing
05-05-2002, 10:34 PM
#1
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too much timing i asked before but i never got a clear answer.
i have mti tuning and stock internals. first time the timing was too low (22 degrees) so i sent it back to get fixed. i only got one test in but it was a max of 35 degrees <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> .
my question is can this phyiscally hurt my car? i have no knock retard showing up on autotap.
if it doenst hurt my car, can it hurt performance?
i would send it back to try and get it bumped down a little but i would like to wait till i get a new rearend soon and get the gears done at the same time (or wait for ls1 edit for 01 cars).
i ran some 100 octane this weekend and the car seemed to pull better on the topend- could the 100 octane be more benifical with the higher timing? or is this just crazy talk?
i have mti tuning and stock internals. first time the timing was too low (22 degrees) so i sent it back to get fixed. i only got one test in but it was a max of 35 degrees <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> .
my question is can this phyiscally hurt my car? i have no knock retard showing up on autotap.
if it doenst hurt my car, can it hurt performance?
i would send it back to try and get it bumped down a little but i would like to wait till i get a new rearend soon and get the gears done at the same time (or wait for ls1 edit for 01 cars).
i ran some 100 octane this weekend and the car seemed to pull better on the topend- could the 100 octane be more benifical with the higher timing? or is this just crazy talk?
05-06-2002, 04:28 PM
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Re: too much timing i know its high...but that didnt answer my question <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> is it bad to have it that high? i dont have the money to send the pcm back two more times when i can do it once.
05-07-2002, 07:01 PM
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Re: too much timing Royboy... I am currently running 31 degrees of timing at WOT. I used to run 27 degrees.
So I personally think that 35 degrees is too much because I don't think you will see a power gain unless maybe you run some good gas.
Then again you have been running 2-3mph faster than other folks perhaps we can run more timing and make a little more power. I wonder if you get any KR?
So I personally think that 35 degrees is too much because I don't think you will see a power gain unless maybe you run some good gas.
Then again you have been running 2-3mph faster than other folks perhaps we can run more timing and make a little more power. I wonder if you get any KR?
05-07-2002, 07:43 PM
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Re: too much timing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" />
no one knows the side effects of running too much timing?
whens ls1 edit come out for 01 cars?
no one knows the side effects of running too much timing?
whens ls1 edit come out for 01 cars?
05-07-2002, 08:30 PM
#7
Re: too much timing </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by DriveATransAm:
<strong> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" />
no one knows the side effects of running too much timing?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">detonation can be the result. Do you hear any or see any KR?
<strong> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" />
no one knows the side effects of running too much timing?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">detonation can be the result. Do you hear any or see any KR?
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05-07-2002, 10:10 PM
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Re: too much timing it def pulls nicely. i have the cutout closed and it felt extremely nice on the backroads sunday. but could it pull harder with less timing? wheres all the smart people <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
05-07-2002, 10:11 PM
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Re: too much timing if it pulls timing, will it be a bad thing? i mean im already too high. maybe it can pull enough by itself to drop it to 31 degrees? should try some 89 gas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
05-08-2002, 12:31 AM
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Re: too much timing Roy, to much can hurt performance, just like to little. Lot's of factors can affect the timing needs of a car. Since your car stock headed and cammed, 35 is probably to much. Are you POSITIVE you are 100% WOT and see a consistant 35*? Timing table base are probably at 31 and you'll see some +/- active on top of this based on other sensor tables.
If you were getting 22 before tuning, then chances are you were in the low octane table and it didn't have the same values as the high octane.
How did you end up in the low octane table? KR over time, etc. Most guys copy the high octane table to the low octane table so there is little chance of such a large timing change. I would find out if the KR detection has been softened if you don't see any KR activity at all.
You may want to use a resistor to increase the IAT perceived temp so that you can pull 1 to 2 degree's out of timing and see if that helps.
Oh, wait, are you running a ported MAF and didn't have MTI program out for it??????
If you were getting 22 before tuning, then chances are you were in the low octane table and it didn't have the same values as the high octane.
How did you end up in the low octane table? KR over time, etc. Most guys copy the high octane table to the low octane table so there is little chance of such a large timing change. I would find out if the KR detection has been softened if you don't see any KR activity at all.
You may want to use a resistor to increase the IAT perceived temp so that you can pull 1 to 2 degree's out of timing and see if that helps.
Oh, wait, are you running a ported MAF and didn't have MTI program out for it??????
05-08-2002, 08:28 AM
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Re: too much timing jas- my timing with stock programming was dead on at 29-30 degress WOT. i got the pcm programmed and it was at 22 then. i sent it back and now its at 35. i did not get a lot of testing, so maybe its not 35 all the time at WOT, but i think most likely it was. i can review the a-tap log again. i have a descreened maf only.
05-12-2002, 11:27 AM
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Re: too much timing Roy, I think you need to log a handful of WOT runs then plot your timing vs. RPM in Excel. There should be a smooth timing curve to follow. It's not unusual, however, to see a spike due to a shift or something. I would personally disregard these outlying points. I guess what I'm driving at is whether the 35* is a spike or whether it's a repeatable number that sits on a smooth timing curve.
