T/A Medic

iTrader: (1)

What is the difference and which is better. ATap is enroute to my door now, can anyone tell me if and why EFIliveV5 might be better?

EFILive

iTrader: (2)

Atap is a scan tool that works with GM, Ford and Chrysler OBD-II vehicles. It does a good job displaying generic and manufacturer enhanced data and trouble codes for GM, Ford and Chrysler. If you want to see trouble codes and log a data for GM, Ford and Chrysler vehicles then use Autotap.

EFILive is a specific purpose scan tool designed for GM vehicles and in particular the LS1 platform. (Future versions of EFILiveV5 may support other GM powertrains and Ford and Chrysler).

EFILiveV5 has two advantages over Atap:
1. It can log high-speed data, up to 24 paramters at 10 frames per second. Atap does not.
2. It can perform bidirectional controls - you can temporarily override powertrain control values like idle speed, IAC position, Spark advance, Air fuel, gear selection, TCC lockup and about 20 others. These controls allow you to make adjustments on-the-fly while running on a dyno.

As an added bonus, the AT1 (and AT123) interface that ships with Atap can be used with EFILiveV5.

Regards
Paul

<small>[ June 02, 2002, 07:14 AM: Message edited by: EFIliveV5 ]</small>

T/A Medic

iTrader: (1)

Very cool, let me know when ur product is finished, I will "upgrade"

Roberto

EFIliveV5 look like a very promising product. The competative upgrade option of paying $95 and using my existing AT1 interface is very attractive. If I use my existing AT1 interface, do I still get the superior high-speed data logging?

bigshoe

iTrader: (2)

yeah, what Roberto said! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

I want to know this as well, any performance difference with the AT1 connector?

also, exactly how fast is it? I think atap does 20 samples per second

EFILive

iTrader: (2)

Performance summary of Autotap V's EFILiveV5:

EFILiveV5: 1 pid 26.6/sec
EFILiveV5: 5 pids 13.2/sec
EFILiveV5: 19 pids 9.7/sec

Autotap: 1 pid 26.3/sec
Autotap: 5 pids 5.3/sec
Autotap: 19 pids 1.5/sec

Ok, here's the statistics using a benchtop PCM
That means there is no bus arbitration to skew the results.

================================================== ======
Testing Autotap using the AT1 interface...

With 1 parameter selected:
- RPM
Autotap achieved 26.3 samples per second.

With 5 parameters selected:
- RPM
- O2B1S1
- O2B2S1
- TPS
- Knock
Autotap achieved 5.3 samples per second

With 19 parameters selected:
- RPM
- VSS
- Advance
- KR
- STFTB1
- STFTB2
- LTFTB1
- LTFTB2
- MAP
- MAF
- TPS
- O2B1S1
- O2B2S1
- Fuel system 1
- Fuel system 2
- ECT
- CELL#
- EOP
- IAT
Autotap achieved 1.5 samples per second.

================================================== ======
Testing EFILiveV5 using the exact same AT1 interface...

With only one parameter selected:
- RPM
EFILiveV5 acheived 26.6 samples per second.

With 5 parameters selected:
- RPM
- O2B1S1
- O2B2S1
- TPS
- Knock
EFILiveV5 achieved 13.2 samples per second

With 19 parameters selected:
- RPM
- VSS
- Advance
- KR
- STFTB1
- STFTB2
- LTFTB1
- LTFTB2
- MAP
- MAF
- TPS
- O2B1S1
- O2B2S1
- Fuel system 1
- Fuel system 2
- ECT
- CELL#
- EOP
- IAT
EFILiveV5 acheived 9.7 samples per second.

AzzHauler

iTrader: (3)

When's the projected release on efilivev5?

<small>[ May 31, 2002, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: AzzHauler ]</small>

Roberto

That is definately worth the $95 to "upgrade" to this system.

EFILive

iTrader: (2)

EFILiveV5 is still in beta testing.
It is scheduled for general public release on July 1, 2002.
However, if anyone wants a sneak preview, the pre-release, demo, beta version can be download from: EFILiveV5 Beta

</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This "demo" version will only log 5 seconds of data, then it will stop logging data.
  </font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The help system is NOT up to date.
  </font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The bi-directional controls are not active in the "demo" version.
  </font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">*** WARNING ***
This software is still in beta testing, that means there may still be some bugs in the code. If you find what you believe is a bug or a problem please let us know at efilive@blacky.co.nz
Because of the high volumne of emails we receive at this address we cannot gaurantee a response - however we will try to respond to all emails.

JAS

EFIliveV5 - All your benchmarks are with the old cable and old software for Autotap correct? The new upcoming Atap software/hardware should fare a bit better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hang in there folks, Atap not done yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

<img border="0" alt="[chug]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_chug.gif" />

EFILive

iTrader: (2)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> All your benchmarks are with the old cable and old software for Autotap correct </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes that's correct. But to be fair I was comparing apples to apples. The comparison was to indicate what performance gains an existing Autotap user would get for $95.00

EFILiveV5 also uses (and recommends) the new LDV100P1 and LDV123P1 B&B hardware - however, with the right software the speed difference between the old and new hardware is almost undectable.

However, I agree that new interface from B&B is much better, in many ways than the old AT1 interface.

I cannot comment on the speed difference between the old Autotap software and the new Autotap software - I have not seen the new product yet.

The data speeds that I have quoted (for EFILiveV5) cannot be speeded up with hardware/software changes because it is the PCM that is limiting the data transfer.
(Unless the interface/PCM supports 4x mode)

Slart

10 samples/sec is pathetically slow for a datalogger. Good dataloggers will do 20,000,000 samples/second.

There's no excuse for either piece of hardware working at anything less than the maximum speed the Computer/OBD-II bus supports.

- Steve

SSilver

I'm confused, I just ordered A-tap from the pace parts GP. I got the one that will scan all gm ford ect.

So for 95$ I can get the EFIlive5 and use the A-tap cable so I would be able to run both EFIlive5 and A-tap if I so chose to do that?

Can someone clarify I work too much, my brain shut down. Please excuse my ignorance. <img border="0" alt="[Fluffy]" title="" src="graemlins/fluffy.gif" />

EFILive

iTrader: (2)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> 10 samples/sec is pathetically slow for a datalogger. Good dataloggers will do 20,000,000 samples/second.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree, 10 samples per second is pathetically slow especially when logging data from an engine running at high rpm's - much data is lost.

Short of hooking up your own sensors connected back to a dedicated data logger there isn't much alternative.

When the source device (the PCM) is only spitting out 10 frames per second it doesn't matter how fast your data logger is, you'll only get 10 frames per second.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> There's no excuse for either piece of hardware working at anything less than the maximum speed the Computer/OBD-II bus supports.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Again I completely agree, Both EFILiveV5 and Autotap work at the maximum speed that the PCM returns data.

EFILiveV5 uses GM's fast proprietary data transfer format but is limited to GM vehicles.

Autotap uses a data format that is available on GM, Ford and Chrysler vehicles and therefor works on all of those types of vehicles.

EFILive

iTrader: (2)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> I'm confused, I just ordered A-tap from the pace parts GP. I got the one that will scan all gm ford ect.

So for 95$ I can get the EFIlive5 and use the A-tap cable so I would be able to run both EFIlive5 and A-tap if I so chose to do that?

Can someone clarify I work too much, my brain shut down. Please excuse my ignorance.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">EFILiveV5 is designed for vehicles with the GM/LS1 powertrain. EFILiveV5 provides generic and manufacturer enhanced parameters plus high speed data logging plus bi-directional controls. However EFILiveV5 is only available for the GM/LS1 powertrain.

Autotap is designed for All GM OBD-II vehicles, All Ford OBD-II vehicles and All Chrysler OBD-II vehicles. Autotap provides a comprehensive set of generic and manufacturer enhanced parameters for all of those vehicles.

What that really means is that by purchasing Autotap you get the best of both worlds. You get a comprehensive scan tool package for GM, Ford and Chrysler, plus (for USD $95 or USD $120) you can use EFILiveV5 (with the interface that ships with your Autotap product) for high speed data logging and bi-directional controls for GM/LS1 equipped vehicles.

USD $95 for a version of EFILiveV5 that does not have bi-directional controls.
USD $120 for a version of EFILiveV5 that does have bi-directional controls.

Warning - some of EFILiveV5's bi-directional controls are not available with the AT1/AT123 interface.

strife

should this not be in bold

bi-directional controls for GM/LS1 equipped vehicles

Slart

ttt

Chris Spiess

I have been toying with the pre-releases of EFILive for a month or so through my AutoTap hardware and can say that EFILive is a much nicer programm to work with. In addition to the higher sampling rates, the user interface is much easier and productive to work with. The export CSV files are also much easier to deal with.

wizkid

iTrader: (3)

EFILive Rocks. Like mentioned above, it is easy to use and very professional in nature. I feel like the "mythical" tuner which is above the horsepower law when I use it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

Auto Tap is great too because it does all GM vehicles. I help out a lot of the V6 F-Body crowd around here. They don't have LS series engines.

I plan on using both and will use both. Both are great products that compliment each other and have their nitche to fill in the car world.

BTW, Version 2.0 Auto Tap also exports to csv files.

Eric

<small>[ June 27, 2002, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: wizkid ]</small>

2000 Camaro SS

When you make these temporary changes on the fly will they hold while you do a run down the track?
Question:
1. I have my laptop mounted in the car at the track to take readings. So with this software will I be able to change settings and then run with the changes while at the track?
2. I bought AutoTap about 3 years ago will I need to buy new hardware to use the new features of EFI Live? (That is making temp. changes to tuning)
3. The $120 version is what is needed to make temp changes to tuning?

<small>[ June 28, 2002, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: 2000 Camaro SS ]</small>