wideband results
wideband results car is 2000 m6, has LID,ported MAF ends,K&N a/f, 100 shot dry.
I have a fjo wideband setup i use for tuning cars(on dyno and street). 14.3-14.6 at idle, 12.1-12.3 at wot-pretty rich i think for my lack of mods. On bottle on 75 shot stayed at 12.2 plus you couldnt feel the nitrous at all. step jet up to a 100 shot. went to 12.1-11.9 at wot but still cant feel nitrous come in. I am positive its sprayng. My problem is after the second outing i get a SES light -proabably because my o2 id out of the pass side manifold(for the wideband to go into). now car is about 16.3 at idle and 17.2 at part throttle!!! At wot its about 14.2. Of course i didnt spray it but would having an o2 disconnected caust this kind of lean condition???? Car seems to drive fine but definitely has lass power with this lack of fuel. Any ideas-on having o2 disconected and getting lean condition??? this is b2s1 o2. havent scanned it yet. tomorrow i will.
Sean
<small>[ December 15, 2002, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: lbz34 ]</small>
I have a fjo wideband setup i use for tuning cars(on dyno and street). 14.3-14.6 at idle, 12.1-12.3 at wot-pretty rich i think for my lack of mods. On bottle on 75 shot stayed at 12.2 plus you couldnt feel the nitrous at all. step jet up to a 100 shot. went to 12.1-11.9 at wot but still cant feel nitrous come in. I am positive its sprayng. My problem is after the second outing i get a SES light -proabably because my o2 id out of the pass side manifold(for the wideband to go into). now car is about 16.3 at idle and 17.2 at part throttle!!! At wot its about 14.2. Of course i didnt spray it but would having an o2 disconnected caust this kind of lean condition???? Car seems to drive fine but definitely has lass power with this lack of fuel. Any ideas-on having o2 disconected and getting lean condition??? this is b2s1 o2. havent scanned it yet. tomorrow i will.
Sean
<small>[ December 15, 2002, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: lbz34 ]</small>
Re: wideband results Sean
are you saying you took a O2 sensor out to put the wideband O2 in and ran the car like that,(with one sensor out)
This is not good, especially if you are spraying.
I couldn't feel a 75shot on my LT1 camaro at all either but you could feel the 100shot hit like a ****.
But back on topic the PCM uses both O2's to adjust the fuel to air and the rear O2's are just there to make sure the A/F and cats are happy. To run with one out is dangerous, the pcm can't adjust for the pass side bank at all.
I have an A-tap that we can run it on to see what SES light you are getting. I have tomorrow off too, just give me directions on where to find you or you can come up here.
Jeremy
PS a stock LS1 usually runs that rich from the factory I have see them as low as 11.7 on chris's dyno.
are you saying you took a O2 sensor out to put the wideband O2 in and ran the car like that,(with one sensor out)
This is not good, especially if you are spraying.
I couldn't feel a 75shot on my LT1 camaro at all either but you could feel the 100shot hit like a ****.
But back on topic the PCM uses both O2's to adjust the fuel to air and the rear O2's are just there to make sure the A/F and cats are happy. To run with one out is dangerous, the pcm can't adjust for the pass side bank at all.
I have an A-tap that we can run it on to see what SES light you are getting. I have tomorrow off too, just give me directions on where to find you or you can come up here.
Jeremy
PS a stock LS1 usually runs that rich from the factory I have see them as low as 11.7 on chris's dyno.
Re: wideband results I figure the pcm would go into open loop like just about every other car at WOT. As I have no proof of this as of yet I can not say either way. I Should hopefully wil have a scanner done this week(if the software and cable works with a laptop). Give me acall if you like, I will be working on the car after i get done with normal shjop work (6 pm or so).
Sean
Sean
Re: wideband results I dont think it will go into open loop, but it will go into limp home mode which will make the car act like it running on 4 cylinders if it senses something way outta whack.
A-tap is here to use, it will work without hoping for anything, let me know. I don't know where your shop is or where to reach you other that this board.
J
A-tap is here to use, it will work without hoping for anything, let me know. I don't know where your shop is or where to reach you other that this board.
J
Re: wideband results My number is on my website (www.solid-technology.com) and I am at louisiana and menaul
Southwest General Tire/*** American Car Care
you can call me.
720-2137
Sean
Southwest General Tire/*** American Car Care
you can call me.
720-2137
Sean
Re: wideband results How much trouble is it to weld an additional brung onto the exhaust system for the wide band O2 sensor.
Then you will have both front O2 sensors working for the PCM, and keep you out of limp home mode or open loop.
I think that going into one of these modes is bad for top performance and may result in a blown motor.
Then you will have both front O2 sensors working for the PCM, and keep you out of limp home mode or open loop.
I think that going into one of these modes is bad for top performance and may result in a blown motor.
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Re: wideband results It takes me about 10 minuits to weld in a n additional bung but i didnt have one today and was bored. Tomorrow i will be doing just that. It is always better to tune in open loop-although i can do no tuning yet (lack of ls1 edit-comming soon). I have tuned numerous cars this way and have not hurt one yet. I guess the ls1 doesnt like it though. I would be a little miffed if the computer actually used the o2 feedback at WOT. The car is not in limp mode-thank god-but is running extremely lean. So its slow going to work tomorrow.
Thanks for the input guys.
Sean
Thanks for the input guys.
Sean
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Re: wideband results I thought about that colonel but decided aginst it because of the cats. I dont know if they make a difference in o2 readings. Got the o2back in today and put in an aditional bung with a permanent 5 wire o2 welded in (threads were stripped due to a customers car). Car is back to normal now but seems to be leanes out a bit. Possibly due to the ecu reset I did yesterday.
I find the stock ls1 A/F to be a bit on the lean side at part throttle. Up until about 75% throttle or so the car will start out at 16:1 and ramp to about 14.5:1. Once you hit that magic TP point then viola 12.8:1.
I am amazed how lean GM likes to run the car. I like to set vehicles up to about 15:1 at cruise and as you get to about 75% throttle ramp the A/F to about 12.8:1 or so. I do not think my N/A can be a fair comparison to past cars i have tuned since the others were FI 4 cyls.
Just a little info for you guys.
Thanks for the suggestions
Sean
I find the stock ls1 A/F to be a bit on the lean side at part throttle. Up until about 75% throttle or so the car will start out at 16:1 and ramp to about 14.5:1. Once you hit that magic TP point then viola 12.8:1.
I am amazed how lean GM likes to run the car. I like to set vehicles up to about 15:1 at cruise and as you get to about 75% throttle ramp the A/F to about 12.8:1 or so. I do not think my N/A can be a fair comparison to past cars i have tuned since the others were FI 4 cyls.
Just a little info for you guys.
Thanks for the suggestions
Sean
Re: wideband results I thought about that colonel but decided aginst it because of the cats. I dont know if they make a difference in o2 readings. Got the o2 back in today and put in an aditional bung with a permanent 5 wire o2 welded in (threads were stripped due to a customers car). Car is back to normal now but seems to be leaned out a bit. Possibly due to the ecu reset I did yesterday.
I find the stock ls1 A/F to be a bit on the lean side at part throttle ( in my opinion). Up until about 75% throttle or so the car will start out at 16:1 and ramp to about 14.5:1. Once you hit that magic TP point then viola 12.8:1.
I would guess the A/F's would be richer than this with a 10:1 v8. I like to set vehicles up to about 15:1 at cruise and as you get to about 75% throttle ramp the A/F to about 12.8:1 or so(this is usually with boost). I do not think my N/A can be a fair comparison to other cars I have tuned since the others were FI 4 cyls. I will enjoy trying to squeeze every bit of hp out of this car especially with out FI.
Just a little info for you guys.
Thanks for the suggestions
Sean
I find the stock ls1 A/F to be a bit on the lean side at part throttle ( in my opinion). Up until about 75% throttle or so the car will start out at 16:1 and ramp to about 14.5:1. Once you hit that magic TP point then viola 12.8:1.
I would guess the A/F's would be richer than this with a 10:1 v8. I like to set vehicles up to about 15:1 at cruise and as you get to about 75% throttle ramp the A/F to about 12.8:1 or so(this is usually with boost). I do not think my N/A can be a fair comparison to other cars I have tuned since the others were FI 4 cyls. I will enjoy trying to squeeze every bit of hp out of this car especially with out FI.
Just a little info for you guys.
Thanks for the suggestions
Sean
TECH Resident
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 770
Likes: 0
From: WA
Re: wideband results You can't feel a 75shot! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Their could only be two problems. Either you didn't spray any N2O, Or your AssOmeter is off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Their could only be two problems. Either you didn't spray any N2O, Or your AssOmeter is off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
TECH Resident
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 770
Likes: 0
From: WA
Re: wideband results </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> step jet up to a 100 shot. went to 12.1-11.9 at wot but still cant feel nitrous come in. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You didn't spray if you can't feel 100shot
Re: wideband results Thats what i keep thinking is the car is not spraying. I pill off the lid arm system and sure enough it is spraying. I have taken out the "custom" dry kit and went back to a single nozzle wet kit. Have it set at about a 60 shot untill I get a chance to change the plugs. Can hardly maybe feel it now. could just be all in my head??? lol
the A/F still does not change much at all. 12.6 to about 12.4 or so on the spray with bp about 950 or so. I hope i can "feel" the 100 shot. If not I will just sell the kit.
the A/F still does not change much at all. 12.6 to about 12.4 or so on the spray with bp about 950 or so. I hope i can "feel" the 100 shot. If not I will just sell the kit.
Re: wideband results your bottle pressure is good right??
also you can run a lighted LED to the n20 solnoid(ground and hot) and if it lights up when you spray then its certainly letting N20 into the car <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
also you can run a lighted LED to the n20 solnoid(ground and hot) and if it lights up when you spray then its certainly letting N20 into the car <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 176
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From: Orlando, FL
Re: wideband results The easy way to resolve this is to attach a volt meter to the wires at the nitrous solenoid and watch the meter when the nitrous is supposed to kick in. It's either being commanded or not.
Tim
Tim
TECH Addict
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,261
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Re: wideband results Wideband O2 bungs should always be placedbefore cats. The cats do effect the O2 concentrations. Should be placed as close to collectors, as possible, for accurate readings. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
Re: wideband results Yep no nirous. I had the Microswitch hooked up to the cruise safety switch(as I was planing on runing a 2 step). There is a ground when car is not running and key on/acc but once the vehicle is running no ground!!! Damn me and my schemes. LOL. Had a 60 shot in (NX) and with 4 of us in the car felt very very strong. Put 5-6 cars on an a4 both of us basically stock through 2nd spinning all the way. Was going like 14-1. Too lean for me. Jetted it up to 100 shot after made sure fuel was working and much better a/f's. Not as much power as a lean 60 shot!! Of course you get the initial hit-rich to 10-1 then bounces back to 14-1 for a short while then to 12-1 and through the rest of the gears drops a/f ending up at 10.5-1 or so(in third). As soon as I figure out how to post my FJO logs I will. Did not get to check for knock on the 60 shot but no knock with the 100 shot.
Car only has lid, af, ported maf 00 m6.
Thanks for the help guys.
I guess its back to
KISS
Sean
Car only has lid, af, ported maf 00 m6.
Thanks for the help guys.
I guess its back to
KISS
Sean