Removing the MAF....yah or nay??!!HELP!
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Teching In
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Removing the MAF....yah or nay??!!HELP! I'm taking my ls1 to the shop to get it retuned and a few other mods done to it and the tech there recommended completely removing my maf to gain performance............is this a good thing or a bad thing???
Well, so far I haven't seen any accurate information in this thread. If you want some good info, go poke around in the tuning section.
I haven't had a MAF on my car for quite some time (like a year), and it runs way better without it. Gas mileage hasn't suffered AT ALL. This isn't something that is rocket science anymore...it just requires a little bit of knowledge and the right tools (Flashscan or HPTuners will both get you where you want to be).
I haven't had a MAF on my car for quite some time (like a year), and it runs way better without it. Gas mileage hasn't suffered AT ALL. This isn't something that is rocket science anymore...it just requires a little bit of knowledge and the right tools (Flashscan or HPTuners will both get you where you want to be).
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Dec 2005
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Thanks! My car has already been tuned with the HPtune kit by my local shop. If I could just go and find out what the settings are then I can make this change. How much of a HP difference did this actually make?
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I'm not sure there are any gains between a properly tunes maf setup, and SD setup. I think they numbers would be extremely close, only thign on the maf side, is the maf being a restriction, but it isn't much of one. If both were tuned properly, all things should be about even, but it's much easier to tune SD.
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Originally Posted by RawDawg
Thanks! My car has already been tuned with the HPtune kit by my local shop. If I could just go and find out what the settings are then I can make this change. How much of a HP difference did this actually make?
You will see little or no hp increase. Stock MAF is good to ~500 crank hp. One reason a lot of modded guys remove them is tuning.
TECH Fanatic
Joined: May 2004
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From: Wichita KS
there is really only one true pro to running you car in SD mode (MAF-less) is how much easier it is to tune. Some will say that the car will have more performance, and be more stable, but I believe these to untrue if the MAF is properly dialed in. Personally I run in SD mode, for the simple reason that i do not have time to dial in my MAF, AND i think it is broken and i dont want to replace it... SD mode will probably not increase hp unless your MAF table is off somewhat. Ultimately its up to the tuner. Its a matter of preference and skill...
Originally Posted by MeentSS02
Well, so far I haven't seen any accurate information in this thread. If you want some good info, go poke around in the tuning section.
I haven't had a MAF on my car for quite some time (like a year), and it runs way better without it. Gas mileage hasn't suffered AT ALL. This isn't something that is rocket science anymore...it just requires a little bit of knowledge and the right tools (Flashscan or HPTuners will both get you where you want to be).
I haven't had a MAF on my car for quite some time (like a year), and it runs way better without it. Gas mileage hasn't suffered AT ALL. This isn't something that is rocket science anymore...it just requires a little bit of knowledge and the right tools (Flashscan or HPTuners will both get you where you want to be).
You can exceed 1000hp with a MAF if you want, or you can make 400hp without the MAF. I prefer SD without the MAF myself, and no it does not hurt your gas mileage at all. It does have to have tuning though and it takes more work to get right. A generic "dyno-tune" won't cut it. It will need a full tune which often takes a day or more to complete.
I made exactly 5.4 hp more with out the MAF on consecutive dyno runs, so at 430hp it may be a little restriction. We were logging everything. For some reason with my new setup at 2450 RPMs the car freaked out and pulled timing from 26* to 16 and then back up to full timing for the rest of the pull. So I pulled the MAF and problem was solved.
Fuel mileage has been a little better with out it if my math is right. I may be mistaken but since the MAF measures absolute pressure inside the intake manifold and calculates off that wouldn't it be true that if you went to an extreme difference in altitude that the tune that was perfect before would be completly off now?
Fuel mileage has been a little better with out it if my math is right. I may be mistaken but since the MAF measures absolute pressure inside the intake manifold and calculates off that wouldn't it be true that if you went to an extreme difference in altitude that the tune that was perfect before would be completly off now?
Originally Posted by 954RR
I made exactly 5.4 hp more with out the MAF on consecutive dyno runs, so at 430hp it may be a little restriction. We were logging everything. For some reason with my new setup at 2450 RPMs the car freaked out and pulled timing from 26* to 16 and then back up to full timing for the rest of the pull. So I pulled the MAF and problem was solved.
Fuel mileage has been a little better with out it if my math is right. I may be mistaken but since the MAF measures absolute pressure inside the intake manifold and calculates off that wouldn't it be true that if you went to an extreme difference in altitude that the tune that was perfect before would be completly off now?
Fuel mileage has been a little better with out it if my math is right. I may be mistaken but since the MAF measures absolute pressure inside the intake manifold and calculates off that wouldn't it be true that if you went to an extreme difference in altitude that the tune that was perfect before would be completly off now?
Originally Posted by bowtieman81
MAF does not measure pressure, you are confused with a MAP sensor. MAF just measures airflow volume. MAP measures manifold pressure.
So since it measures absolute pressure moving the said tuned car to a different altitude in theory would throw the tune off some
TECH Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Lake Zurich, IL
lots of misinformation here.....
to summarize:
a properly done SD tune (not using MAF) will not result in loss of fuel economy
A properly done SD tune will gain more power
A properly done SD tune and MAF tuning will result in negligable diffs in power (very high hp cars are the only ones that will gain much from going pure SD.... and even then it's controversial.... see harlan's 8 second MAF LS1)
it all boils down to who is doing the tune and how well they do it.....
the way I look at it... if you tune your own car.. then delete the MAF
if you rely on someone else.. have them SD tune the car and then tune the MAF and keep the MAF
to summarize:
a properly done SD tune (not using MAF) will not result in loss of fuel economy
A properly done SD tune will gain more power
A properly done SD tune and MAF tuning will result in negligable diffs in power (very high hp cars are the only ones that will gain much from going pure SD.... and even then it's controversial.... see harlan's 8 second MAF LS1)
it all boils down to who is doing the tune and how well they do it.....
the way I look at it... if you tune your own car.. then delete the MAF
if you rely on someone else.. have them SD tune the car and then tune the MAF and keep the MAF
the way I look at it... if you tune your own car.. then delete the MAF
if you rely on someone else.. have them SD tune the car and then tune the MAF and keep the MAF
if you rely on someone else.. have them SD tune the car and then tune the MAF and keep the MAF
I do like the SD tune it's pritty easy, just takes us novice tuners a little time to get all the cells, I wonder if a Mustang dyno is a better choise when doing a SD tune.
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From: From Ohio now in that state up north
I dont see any benifit to having the maf while there isnt much down side to it either i would just strip the unneeded stuff out of the car if it works fine with out it why keep it. Boosted cars can get away with a one bar map sensor useing a maf thats the only time i can think that it would be an advantage to have it.
Originally Posted by horist
(very high hp cars are the only ones that will gain much from going pure SD.... and even then it's controversial.... see harlan's 8 second MAF LS1)