Everyone with SD tune issue: VERY lean on starts after certain time delay.
03-30-2006, 12:32 PM
#21
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Mike, out of curiosity, what do the stock O2 sensors read when this thing is running so lean?
I remember you had quite you share of trouble with the LC-1. Mine would give me some bogus readings, like A/F ratios around 18:1 in closed loop.
I remember you had quite you share of trouble with the LC-1. Mine would give me some bogus readings, like A/F ratios around 18:1 in closed loop.
03-30-2006, 12:41 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by WS6FirebirdTA00
I have yet to see someone in SD without the issue. Well, people say they dont have the issue but never want to post up anything to provide us with better informatin.
I do not run air-injection at all. I always put my IAT hanging in the breeze to stay at ambient and avoid any heat soak, and put the charge temp blend (IAC/ECT bias) down to zero by 5.29 lb/min.
I bias completely from IAC after that.
Before that looks like this:
Lb/min = factor
0.00 = 0.35
1.32 = 0.17
2.65 = 0.10
3.97 = 0.06
but I doubt that's your problem. It's most likely one of the after-start factors.
03-30-2006, 02:51 PM
#23
Make sure when you make changes, that you're changing one thing at a time. If you adjust your base spark tables, it'll throw off your AFR, if you add more desired airflow, it'll throw off your AFR. Pretty much everytime you make a change to your tune, it'll throw off the VE table and you'll have to recal it to get within .01 or 1% Try recalibrating your VE table and see if it helps. Log ONLY after you've come to a stead idle and are above 180* engine temps.
Lastly, look at all of your spark corrections that are based on ECT and IAT, you should zero out all of those tables.
I'm running OL SD and did have a similar problem, but it was correct and now my AFR is solid all the way through even on a cold start up. How did I correct this?
Adjusted Startup Airflow Friction Correction / multiplier / decay rates
Adjusted base spark at idle, made it the same as high/low octane
Zeroed out all spark correction tables that are based on ECT and IAT, including AIR and EGR tables.
Recal VE table at idle logging only values with ECT's about 180*
Best Regards,
Adrian
Lastly, look at all of your spark corrections that are based on ECT and IAT, you should zero out all of those tables.
I'm running OL SD and did have a similar problem, but it was correct and now my AFR is solid all the way through even on a cold start up. How did I correct this?
Adjusted Startup Airflow Friction Correction / multiplier / decay rates
Adjusted base spark at idle, made it the same as high/low octane
Zeroed out all spark correction tables that are based on ECT and IAT, including AIR and EGR tables.
Recal VE table at idle logging only values with ECT's about 180*
Best Regards,
Adrian
03-30-2006, 02:54 PM
#25
Originally Posted by NicD
I believe I said this in another thread dealing with this on the HPT message board, but try loading in an 01-02 calibration.
03-30-2006, 02:56 PM
#26
Originally Posted by white2001s10
I live for SD-OL mode. I've never had or even seen this problem before.
I do not run air-injection at all. I always put my IAT hanging in the breeze to stay at ambient and avoid any heat soak, and put the charge temp blend (IAC/ECT bias) down to zero by 5.29 lb/min.
I bias completely from IAC after that.
Before that looks like this:
Lb/min = factor
0.00 = 0.35
1.32 = 0.17
2.65 = 0.10
3.97 = 0.06
but I doubt that's your problem. It's most likely one of the after-start factors.
I do not run air-injection at all. I always put my IAT hanging in the breeze to stay at ambient and avoid any heat soak, and put the charge temp blend (IAC/ECT bias) down to zero by 5.29 lb/min.
I bias completely from IAC after that.
Before that looks like this:
Lb/min = factor
0.00 = 0.35
1.32 = 0.17
2.65 = 0.10
3.97 = 0.06
but I doubt that's your problem. It's most likely one of the after-start factors.
03-30-2006, 02:57 PM
#27
Originally Posted by Haans249
Make sure when you make changes, that you're changing one thing at a time. If you adjust your base spark tables, it'll throw off your AFR, if you add more desired airflow, it'll throw off your AFR. Pretty much everytime you make a change to your tune, it'll throw off the VE table and you'll have to recal it to get within .01 or 1% Try recalibrating your VE table and see if it helps. Log ONLY after you've come to a stead idle and are above 180* engine temps.
Lastly, look at all of your spark corrections that are based on ECT and IAT, you should zero out all of those tables.
I'm running OL SD and did have a similar problem, but it was correct and now my AFR is solid all the way through even on a cold start up. How did I correct this?
Adjusted Startup Airflow Friction Correction / multiplier / decay rates
Adjusted base spark at idle, made it the same as high/low octane
Zeroed out all spark correction tables that are based on ECT and IAT, including AIR and EGR tables.
Recal VE table at idle logging only values with ECT's about 180*
Best Regards,
Adrian
Lastly, look at all of your spark corrections that are based on ECT and IAT, you should zero out all of those tables.
I'm running OL SD and did have a similar problem, but it was correct and now my AFR is solid all the way through even on a cold start up. How did I correct this?
Adjusted Startup Airflow Friction Correction / multiplier / decay rates
Adjusted base spark at idle, made it the same as high/low octane
Zeroed out all spark correction tables that are based on ECT and IAT, including AIR and EGR tables.
Recal VE table at idle logging only values with ECT's about 180*
Best Regards,
Adrian
03-30-2006, 03:09 PM
#28
I have the same problem, although not to that extent...my leanout is only on the order of .5-1 point, so it isn't causing any problems with idle. There are some other inconsistencies though, like a phantom DFCO that only pops up in lower gears.
03-30-2006, 03:10 PM
#29
I've got a 2001, maybe you can try copying the tables from a 2002 file to your 2000 file and seeing if that helps, esp the afterstart enrichments. I really do think its something very basic that is just being looked over. Too bad I don't have HPtuners, or can't use a demo of their software to take a look at your file. Something else I would try, just for *****, start from square one with a fresh tune (stock '00 file put into OLSD) and try the "basics" once again, only zeroing out all those tables that I mentioned and working on your VE table at idle, after adjusting your base spark tables, desired airflow, and startup friction tables, no driving. If you nail it then you know something that was changed in your original tune is having a detrimental effect on your idle conditions, and you can go from there. I've learned that there are MANY tables in the PCM that really don't have any effect when in OLSD, and messing with them really doesn't help and makes things more complicated then need be.
Best of Luck!
Adrian
Best of Luck!
Adrian
03-30-2006, 03:13 PM
#30
Originally Posted by MeentSS02
I have the same problem, although not to that extent...my leanout is only on the order of .5-1 point, so it isn't causing any problems with idle. There are some other inconsistencies though, like a phantom DFCO that only pops up in lower gears.
HAHAHA, phantom fuel trim cell changes are a common thing that I've been noticing lol. Mine will jump into cell 21 when transitioning to idle for some reason until i come to a complete stop....haven't figured that one out yet lol.
03-30-2006, 03:16 PM
#31
Originally Posted by Haans249
HAHAHA, phantom fuel trim cell changes are a common thing that I've been noticing lol. Mine will jump into cell 21 when transitioning to idle for some reason until i come to a complete stop....haven't figured that one out yet lol.
03-30-2006, 03:25 PM
#32
OL-SD Lean start here, its not too severe. It doesn't go as high as 16.5 and mid 15's. She idles fine though no stumbling or hunting. My car is FI'ed FWIW. It really doesn't bug me because it only does it on real cold starts like if she has been sitting there all night and I start it up in the morning. I'll let it warm up to 168 degs and my a/f drops to where I'm commanding it, 14.5.
It really wasn't this bad until I changed my OLFA vs MAP vs Coolant temp table if I remember correctly, my commanded a/f was 1.05 or like 13.8-1 a/f. It would start up in the high 14's to mid 15's...but when I changed my commanded a/f to 14.5 it went leaner on start up.
No biggie tho, I just let her warm up to 168 degs and i'm on my way, which is what i've always done. Don't want to be too harsh on my valvesprings
But it would be nice if it wouldn't do this though. 1998 OS FWIW.
Hope someone can find out why this is happening.
J
It really wasn't this bad until I changed my OLFA vs MAP vs Coolant temp table if I remember correctly, my commanded a/f was 1.05 or like 13.8-1 a/f. It would start up in the high 14's to mid 15's...but when I changed my commanded a/f to 14.5 it went leaner on start up.
No biggie tho, I just let her warm up to 168 degs and i'm on my way, which is what i've always done. Don't want to be too harsh on my valvesprings
But it would be nice if it wouldn't do this though. 1998 OS FWIW.
Hope someone can find out why this is happening.
J
Last edited by frcefed98; 03-30-2006 at 05:33 PM.
03-30-2006, 03:30 PM
#33
Originally Posted by frcefed98
OL-SD Lean start here, its not too severe. It doesn't go as high as 16.5 and mid 15's. She idles fine though no stumbling or hunting. My car is FI'ed FWIW. It really doesn't bug me because it only does it on real cold starts like if she has been sitting there all night and I start it up in the morning. I'll let it warm up to 168 degs and my a/f drops to where I'm commanding it, 14.5.
It really wasn't this bad until I changed my OLFA MAP vs Coolant table if I remember correctly, my commanded a/f was 1.05 or like 13.8-1 a/f. It would start up in the high 14's to mid 15's...but when I changed my commanded a/f to 14.5 it went leaner on start up.
No biggie tho, I just let her warm up to 168 degs and i'm on my way, which is what i've always done. Don't want to be too harsh on my valvesprings
But it would be nice if it wouldn't do this though. 1998 OS FWIW.
Hope someone can find out why this is happening.
J
It really wasn't this bad until I changed my OLFA MAP vs Coolant table if I remember correctly, my commanded a/f was 1.05 or like 13.8-1 a/f. It would start up in the high 14's to mid 15's...but when I changed my commanded a/f to 14.5 it went leaner on start up.
No biggie tho, I just let her warm up to 168 degs and i'm on my way, which is what i've always done. Don't want to be too harsh on my valvesprings
But it would be nice if it wouldn't do this though. 1998 OS FWIW.
Hope someone can find out why this is happening.
J
We are talking about warm restart leanout issues where we've already been running the car, shut it off for over 10 minutes or so, and it leans out on restart for the first few minutes of driving it.
03-30-2006, 04:00 PM
#34
Originally Posted by Haans249
I've got a 2001, maybe you can try copying the tables from a 2002 file to your 2000 file and seeing if that helps, esp the afterstart enrichments. I really do think its something very basic that is just being looked over. Too bad I don't have HPtuners, or can't use a demo of their software to take a look at your file. Something else I would try, just for *****, start from square one with a fresh tune (stock '00 file put into OLSD) and try the "basics" once again, only zeroing out all those tables that I mentioned and working on your VE table at idle, after adjusting your base spark tables, desired airflow, and startup friction tables, no driving. If you nail it then you know something that was changed in your original tune is having a detrimental effect on your idle conditions, and you can go from there. I've learned that there are MANY tables in the PCM that really don't have any effect when in OLSD, and messing with them really doesn't help and makes things more complicated then need be.
Best of Luck!
Adrian
Best of Luck!
Adrian
2000 doesnt have some of those tables, im going to upgrade the OS most likely
03-30-2006, 04:11 PM
#36
Originally Posted by Haans249
i guess you've got your hands tied behind your back 
Any pointers on which way to scale the values you messed with so I can have a decent place to start?
03-30-2006, 04:32 PM
#37
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Why do you have to pay to upgrade the OS? I would just download one from Horists site. Unless you don't have 01-02 capability. Then I guess you will pay for it.
03-30-2006, 05:58 PM
#38
Originally Posted by MeentSS02
Eh...that's not what we're talking about here. That's a separate issue that deals with the fact that you can't command stoich in the OLFA table below operating temps. You will get a leaner result, so you need to correct your OLFA table to reflect that.
We are talking about warm restart leanout issues where we've already been running the car, shut it off for over 10 minutes or so, and it leans out on restart for the first few minutes of driving it.
We are talking about warm restart leanout issues where we've already been running the car, shut it off for over 10 minutes or so, and it leans out on restart for the first few minutes of driving it.
Well, i'm still new to tuning, especially to what i'm doing so bear with me. I responded to the topics title, which is "Everyone with a SD tune issue: Very lean starts after certain time delay" because, one I'm running a 2 bar OLSD tune, and two my car starts up LEAN after a certain time delay, which is if I let the car sit for a long time. I'd never drive the car LEAN, especially boosted, so I guess I don't qualify there
So I let it warm up and let my a/f stabilize to mid 14's and the coolant temp is above 165 degs before I drive anywhere.Watching my log from an am logging session, my coolant temps start at 83 degs and my commanded a/f is 14.5, but my actual is mid 16's up until my coolant temp hits 110 degs and then it starts to try to stabilize to the commanded value, by 165 deg it is stabilized.
I was hoping to figure out why, and posted up what I did because it got worse when I changed the table I listed above.
Still a tuning newb, so don't get all ehhh on me
Man I should put up a disclaimer
**Don't know if this has anything to do with the above thread topic, but my car does something similar and its also a OLSD tune**
J
