What Did I Get Myself Into? :(
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From: Southeastern IL
What Did I Get Myself Into? :( Gahhh...
I know nothing about tuning. Nothing. Well, I think my car is running rich after a long tubes, cutouts, LS6, !cats, !EGR. So, there is this guy in town that says he can tune my car.
Again, I know nothing about tuning.
I get there and he starts telling me about the 2003 Camaro with an LT1 in it. My eyes open wide. I know right there I might be in some serious trouble.
Then, he tells me his '99 Z (I have a '99 Z) has 400 rwhp with only headers (not sure he even has headers from the sound of it) and "straight pipes."
I'm real scared now.
All I want is my Check Engine light to stay off.
Also, I seem to be having missfires. When I get on it, sometimes I hear a loud pop and the car stutters right then. I thought it was bad gas, then I thought it might be a backfire in the pipes, though that probably wasn't logical.
I ask if he can see if its running rich and he says he can, but he says its "hard to mess with" or something like that. He says the air to fuel ratio should be 14. I don't really know what that means, other than what I can gather from context. I did a couple searches some time back when I thouhgt my car was running rich and have read in the Dyno forum and I thought that the AF was supposed to be 12.5-13.
I don't know what he's using to tune.
I'm going there at 1 p.m., and it's 9:10 a.m. now. Can some people give me some advice? If he's using a handheld, he can't really screw anything up can he? What if he's using a lap top? I doubt if he has anything really fancy. It's just a good shade tree mechanic.
I know nothing about tuning. Nothing. Well, I think my car is running rich after a long tubes, cutouts, LS6, !cats, !EGR. So, there is this guy in town that says he can tune my car.
Again, I know nothing about tuning.
I get there and he starts telling me about the 2003 Camaro with an LT1 in it. My eyes open wide. I know right there I might be in some serious trouble.
Then, he tells me his '99 Z (I have a '99 Z) has 400 rwhp with only headers (not sure he even has headers from the sound of it) and "straight pipes."
I'm real scared now.
All I want is my Check Engine light to stay off.
Also, I seem to be having missfires. When I get on it, sometimes I hear a loud pop and the car stutters right then. I thought it was bad gas, then I thought it might be a backfire in the pipes, though that probably wasn't logical.
I ask if he can see if its running rich and he says he can, but he says its "hard to mess with" or something like that. He says the air to fuel ratio should be 14. I don't really know what that means, other than what I can gather from context. I did a couple searches some time back when I thouhgt my car was running rich and have read in the Dyno forum and I thought that the AF was supposed to be 12.5-13.
I don't know what he's using to tune.
I'm going there at 1 p.m., and it's 9:10 a.m. now. Can some people give me some advice? If he's using a handheld, he can't really screw anything up can he? What if he's using a lap top? I doubt if he has anything really fancy. It's just a good shade tree mechanic.
run, run far, run fast, just run lol...find someone else.
a. Theres some mention of an 03' Camaro
b. Theres mention of an 03' Camaro with an LT1
Honestly if you want to get tuned check here https://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning/424857-looking-local-tuner-seriously-read-me-before-asking.html for a local tuner.
a. Theres some mention of an 03' Camaro
b. Theres mention of an 03' Camaro with an LT1
Honestly if you want to get tuned check here https://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning/424857-looking-local-tuner-seriously-read-me-before-asking.html for a local tuner.
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From: CT
I'm new to tuning myself, but with all of the info I've accumulated from around the forums, your cruising AFR should be around 14.7 (stoich)... and at WOT you'd want around 12.8-12.9 if you're NA, and low to mid 11's if you're FI...
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06MonteSS / DiabLew Tune
2014 Camaro 2SS/RS - LS3, 6-speed manual, short-throw performance shifter, NPP dual-mode performance exhaust, 1LE front splitter, ZL1 rockers, Z28 Rear Spoiler, all paint-matched Red Rock Metallic, BMR strut tower brace, Cold Air Inductions cold air intake, Apex Motorsports, Inc. catch-can, Custom DiabLew Tune
www.diablewtune.com -- www.diablocustomtune.com -- www.diablocustomtunegm.com
Last edited by 06MonteSS; Jan 23, 2007 at 10:28 AM.
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From: Southeastern IL
Originally Posted by 06MonteSS
I'm new to tuning myself, but with all of the info I've accumulated from around the forums, your cruising AFR should be around 14.7... and at WOT you'd want around 12.8-12.9 if you're NA, and low to mid 11's if you're FI...
And yeah, this guy is going to do it for like $20 or a case of beer or something.
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From: CT
yeah, you'd need a wideband O2 sensor... or at the very least a scanner to read/log your stock O2 sensors, to at least get it close until you could get onto a dyno with a wideband to tune for WOT.
and as foff667 stated - RUN from this "tuner" guy... I know I wouldn't trust my car with a tuning guy that'd do it for $20 or a case of beer...
and as foff667 stated - RUN from this "tuner" guy... I know I wouldn't trust my car with a tuning guy that'd do it for $20 or a case of beer...
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06MonteSS / DiabLew Tune
2014 Camaro 2SS/RS - LS3, 6-speed manual, short-throw performance shifter, NPP dual-mode performance exhaust, 1LE front splitter, ZL1 rockers, Z28 Rear Spoiler, all paint-matched Red Rock Metallic, BMR strut tower brace, Cold Air Inductions cold air intake, Apex Motorsports, Inc. catch-can, Custom DiabLew Tune
www.diablewtune.com -- www.diablocustomtune.com -- www.diablocustomtunegm.com
06MonteSS / DiabLew Tune
2014 Camaro 2SS/RS - LS3, 6-speed manual, short-throw performance shifter, NPP dual-mode performance exhaust, 1LE front splitter, ZL1 rockers, Z28 Rear Spoiler, all paint-matched Red Rock Metallic, BMR strut tower brace, Cold Air Inductions cold air intake, Apex Motorsports, Inc. catch-can, Custom DiabLew Tune
www.diablewtune.com -- www.diablocustomtune.com -- www.diablocustomtunegm.com
Stay away from this guy. If you do go to this guy ask him for a picture of this 2003 Camaro. The last year was 2002 
and it did not have a LT1 in it. 
400RWHP with just headers is also questionable. I would like to see those headers.
I just have 400 RWHP with headers/cam/pulley/most bolt-ons.
Bill
and it did not have a LT1 in it. 400RWHP with just headers is also questionable. I would like to see those headers.
I just have 400 RWHP with headers/cam/pulley/most bolt-ons.
Bill
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From: Southeastern IL
Originally Posted by 06MonteSS
yeah, you'd need a wideband O2 sensor... or at the very least a scanner to read/log your stock O2 sensors, to at least get it close until you could get onto a dyno with a wideband to tune for WOT.
and as foff667 stated - RUN from this "tuner" guy... I know I wouldn't trust my car with a tuning guy that'd do it for $20 or a case of beer...
and as foff667 stated - RUN from this "tuner" guy... I know I wouldn't trust my car with a tuning guy that'd do it for $20 or a case of beer...
I'm scared, but I have to at least go there. I don't know what to say now...
I'll be going there in 45 min. Maybe he'll just scan it...
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Thread Starter
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From: Southeastern IL
You guys are going to make me cry. See? I'm getting misty eyed already.
I'll just ask him to scan it, not change anything. He has a '99 and it runs fine, and he is a very good mechanic, so I'm not too worried... Not too worried.
I'll just ask him to scan it, not change anything. He has a '99 and it runs fine, and he is a very good mechanic, so I'm not too worried... Not too worried.
Originally Posted by Sharpe
I get there and he starts telling me about the 2003 Camaro with an LT1 in it. My eyes open wide. I know right there I might be in some serious trouble.
I wanna buy it. It would be a collector's item.
Actually, he may be O.K., since at worst the guy can only change closed loop conditions, like his VE table. He would need a wideband and an O2 sensor installed to change WOT conditions. but still...
Actually, he may be O.K., since at worst the guy can only change closed loop conditions, like his VE table. He would need a wideband and an O2 sensor installed to change WOT conditions. but still...
Be afraid......be very afraid......
Stay away from this guy. He may cause you more problems than what its worth.
Speedinc is in Schaumberg, IL. Not sure how far that is from ya though.
R/
Frat
Stay away from this guy. He may cause you more problems than what its worth.
Speedinc is in Schaumberg, IL. Not sure how far that is from ya though.
R/
Frat
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From: Southeastern IL
Okay. I made it back in one piece. All he did was scan it. He had a Snap-on scanner thing.
He told me my front driver's side and my rear passenger's side O2 sensors were out. It also gave an EGR code (I put on an LS6 intake).
He also told me that there was no record of any misfires. Can that be trusted, or does my car only "remember" back so far?
He killed off the CE light, but he said it would probably come back on.
So, I have long tube headers with no cats. Should I replace those two O2s? Or, will they just go bad again? Or, is that a stupid question? Probably is.
Thanks, guys.
He told me my front driver's side and my rear passenger's side O2 sensors were out. It also gave an EGR code (I put on an LS6 intake).
He also told me that there was no record of any misfires. Can that be trusted, or does my car only "remember" back so far?
He killed off the CE light, but he said it would probably come back on.
So, I have long tube headers with no cats. Should I replace those two O2s? Or, will they just go bad again? Or, is that a stupid question? Probably is.
Thanks, guys.
If your front O2's are on the way out, go ahead and replace them. I replace mine in pairs. The PCM must have those. As for the rear O2's you can use O2 sims, or have them turned off during the tune. Your car will smell like its running rich without cats, but you will never know for sure until you get a look at the scan data and use a WBO2.
If you have installed LT's, an ORY, and an LS6 intake your VE table could be off a bit and the PCM may be overfueling the car. You need more data, though. Our noses are not keen enough...
If you did not have him "fix" the MIL then you can reasonably expect it to come back on at some point.
And remember... the only stupid question is the one that goes unasked.
If you dont have anyone in your area you can also try a mail order tune to get you in the window..... turn off the rear O2's ect, a few changes in VE, ect.
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R/
Frat
If you have installed LT's, an ORY, and an LS6 intake your VE table could be off a bit and the PCM may be overfueling the car. You need more data, though. Our noses are not keen enough...
If you did not have him "fix" the MIL then you can reasonably expect it to come back on at some point.
And remember... the only stupid question is the one that goes unasked.
If you dont have anyone in your area you can also try a mail order tune to get you in the window..... turn off the rear O2's ect, a few changes in VE, ect.
Sponsors>>>>>>>>
R/
Frat
Originally Posted by Fratsit
Your car will smell like its running rich without cats, but you will never know for sure until you get a look at the scan data and use a WBO2.
Originally Posted by Fratsit
If you have installed LT's, an ORY, and an LS6 intake your VE table could be off a bit and the PCM may be overfueling the car. You need more data, though.
If you were to scan it, you would probably find the fuel trims on the positive side. This doesnt mean the car is running lean or rich. What it means is the computer is adding fuel to get the A/F back to stoich, which is what its supposed to do.
Too often these terms are thrown around, used in the wrong context. Because a motor, car is running on the + or - side on the fuel trim does not mean its running rich or lean. Most of the time, they are running at stoich. Its just that the computer has to COMPENSATE for certain conditions to keep the engine at stoich.
Any changes to the VE table doesnt make the engine run any leaner, or richer. It only causes the ECM to compensate LESS.
Originally Posted by Fratsit
Our noses are not keen enough...
Sorry for the
PS Back to the point, by the sounds of it I wouldnt let this guy tune my stuff either. At the most let him turn of the BARE MINIMUM codes to keep the light out.
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You didn't hijack the thread. I took the car to him earlier this morning, and reported on his findings.
Wow. I just learned more by reading this thread than I would have learned in like, three days of searching. Thanks, guys!
I'll replace both the front O2s and take it to someone to have the rear ones tuned out. Wonder if Auto Zone ones are good enough.
Thanks a lot, man.
To that I'll add "after using the search button, if you're going to ask it on LS1Tech!" 
Really?! That's a new one on me. Would make sense too since one of my front O2s are out.
Don't know what Stoich means and I couldn't quite get it from context, so this is pretty lost on me. I'll have to research when I get the time, then I'm sure this will be valuable.
I'm not going to try to restate it another way, but I honestly believe I know what you're saying.
Now I'm off to look up Stoich, VE and MIL so I know what the hell I'm talking about when I do find someone to tune it.
As for the sponsors, yes, I use them all the time. I have a clear lid coming fom MTI and sparkplugs coming from LS1Speed right now!
Thanks a lot guys for taking the time to reply to this thread. I'll let you all know where I'm at with future newb questions.
Wow. I just learned more by reading this thread than I would have learned in like, three days of searching. Thanks, guys!
If your front O2's are on the way out, go ahead and replace them. I replace mine in pairs. The PCM must have those. As for the rear O2's you can use O2 sims, or have them turned off during the tune. Your car will smell like its running rich without cats, but you will never know for sure until you get a look at the scan data and use a WBO2.
Thanks a lot, man.
And remember... the only stupid question is the one that goes unasked.
The "smell" is unburned hydrocarbons. They can be present in both lean and rich conditions.
At cruise (closed loop) it shouldnt take a wideband to determine you A/F ratio. If your upstream 02s are working, and the engine is running properly, and you dont have a big ol' cam, your ECM will command stoich.
Any changes to the VE table doesnt make the engine run any leaner, or richer. It only causes the ECM to compensate LESS.
Now I'm off to look up Stoich, VE and MIL so I know what the hell I'm talking about when I do find someone to tune it.
As for the sponsors, yes, I use them all the time.
I have a clear lid coming fom MTI and sparkplugs coming from LS1Speed right now!Thanks a lot guys for taking the time to reply to this thread. I'll let you all know where I'm at with future newb questions.
STOICH= stochiometric. This is the ideal fuel air mixture where all of both components are used in the combustion process. For gasoline this is approximately 14.7/1 air to fuel. VE= volumetric efficiency. This is the percentage of your total cylinder volume that is being filled. MIL= malfunction indicator light, or check engine light, or service engine soon light. Also, changes to the VE table might only make the compensation different at part throttle, but at wide open the engine is in open loop and doesn't compensate. Truthfully, if I weren't so damn bored I would just say SEARCH AND READ. However, it sounds like you are trying, so I won't be a dick.
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Holy ****... You know what to do....
If the guy was going to tune my car, and said something about 03 camaro with lt1 in it I would bitch slap him, take my keys back and leave....
If You don't live too far away from Schaumburg, definetly check out Speed Inc.
If the guy was going to tune my car, and said something about 03 camaro with lt1 in it I would bitch slap him, take my keys back and leave....
If You don't live too far away from Schaumburg, definetly check out Speed Inc.