wideband with HPTuners
wideband with HPTuners I'm having a hard time understanding how to utilize the wideband systems with the hptuner system.
I have 2 modded LS1 cars, and my brother has a 2002 chevy truck that I would like to try doing some tuning on. If I can ever grasp the concept (which I haven't so far
) I might try to tune a few of my buddies cars and trucks if they buy the credits. Because of this I am considereing the HPTuners pro. (per your advice)
1. If I want to buy a wideband system to move from car to car, what do I need, and how do I use it with HPT? Do I just buy a system with a gauge, swap out the sensors, and read it and adjust accordingly, or does the controller hook up to the HPT someway (I couldn't "rig it" on every car I try to tune.
2. What is the benifit of the pro over the standard HP?
Thanks
I have 2 modded LS1 cars, and my brother has a 2002 chevy truck that I would like to try doing some tuning on. If I can ever grasp the concept (which I haven't so far
) I might try to tune a few of my buddies cars and trucks if they buy the credits. Because of this I am considereing the HPTuners pro. (per your advice) 1. If I want to buy a wideband system to move from car to car, what do I need, and how do I use it with HPT? Do I just buy a system with a gauge, swap out the sensors, and read it and adjust accordingly, or does the controller hook up to the HPT someway (I couldn't "rig it" on every car I try to tune.
2. What is the benifit of the pro over the standard HP?
Thanks
You can use a wideband with standard, how to do it is i the stickies here.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....5&postcount=14
https://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning/496625-how-log-your-wideband-hptuners-without-eio.html
To move the widebeand from car to car you need an easily moveable wideband unit.
Sorry I havent been able to have you come watch me tune, I havent gotten around to it yet, i am waiting to but HPT, im tired of ls1edit.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....5&postcount=14
https://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagnostics-tuning/496625-how-log-your-wideband-hptuners-without-eio.html
To move the widebeand from car to car you need an easily moveable wideband unit.
Sorry I havent been able to have you come watch me tune, I havent gotten around to it yet, i am waiting to but HPT, im tired of ls1edit.
I had read the stickies and assumed (or maybe HOPED) that they were refering to a more perm. install. All of them seem to involve "rigging" as I refered to it. It would seem that as important as a wideband is to accurate tuning, that the HP system would have a type of "plug and play". I couldn't imagine having to track down a bunch of wires to splice into everytime I tuned someones car, or re-checked the tune on mine.
I actually thought that was why someone recommended the PRO unit over the standard was that you could incorporate a wideband in it.
I saw your post when you were getting your engine dialed in. It lookied like you were too busy to be bothered.
I actually thought that was why someone recommended the PRO unit over the standard was that you could incorporate a wideband in it.
I saw your post when you were getting your engine dialed in. It lookied like you were too busy to be bothered.
Using an existing sensor is kinda "rigging" it but it is 100% accurate at the same time. The only rigging is splicing into an existing sensor wire. Dont discredit doing it that way, but yes it would take a little longer due to having to splice a wire. Is it worth the extra $200 to you is the question to ask.
Yeah I did a half *** blind idle tune it worked plenty good enough for me to drive around till next week when i order HPT and I get my wideband unit back, i sent the wideband in for an upgrade.
Yeah I did a half *** blind idle tune it worked plenty good enough for me to drive around till next week when i order HPT and I get my wideband unit back, i sent the wideband in for an upgrade.
MY LM-1/MPVI pro combination takes about 2 minutes to go from one LS1 fbody to another once a separate bung for the wideband sensor is welded in.
Here are the differences between the MPVI pro & std.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2924
Basically its just the hardware...pro does standalone datalogging, standard doesnt.
Pro has inputs/outputs, standard doesnt.
Thats it.
Here are the differences between the MPVI pro & std.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2924
Basically its just the hardware...pro does standalone datalogging, standard doesnt.
Pro has inputs/outputs, standard doesnt.
Thats it.
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Originally Posted by Frost
Pro version and get the LM-1... problem solved 
What is an approox. cost, what all is included and who carries them? (I read where someone mentioned Summit, but I didn't see them in the catalog.
And for a really dumb question, what is the difference between the LM-1 and LC-1 I keep seeing referenced.
Thanks for the help guys.
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Originally Posted by foff667
(I found a LM-1 in Summit for $349)
Can I temporarly install the WB O2 in place of one of the original NBs? Getting an appointment at the ONLY muffler shop I use, takes a week or so sometimes. It would be much more practical to use the NB bung (although harder to get to) if that is possible.
Sure, 2 options:
1. Put your wideband in a NB bung, cut the pigtail off of an old NB 02, use analog 2 to simulate narrowband while you log WB on analog 1.
2. (easier) put the car you are tuning in open loop, put your WB in the NB bung and tune open loop.
1. Put your wideband in a NB bung, cut the pigtail off of an old NB 02, use analog 2 to simulate narrowband while you log WB on analog 1.
2. (easier) put the car you are tuning in open loop, put your WB in the NB bung and tune open loop.
If you are looking for ease of use. I would say get a new bung welded in. It will cost you $50 if that. Then get the LM-1 and HPTuners EIO combo.
If cash is a problem and your not afraid of doing a little wiring. Do a set up like what I did. Here. It takes me 2 mins. to take on/off the car (including jacking the car up). It saved me $250+ and I don't have to run wires from the WB to my Tuning hardware. Just connect my laptop to the the OBDII with the standard cable and off I go. Since I race my car in a very limited budget I have to pinch pennies.
If cash is a problem and your not afraid of doing a little wiring. Do a set up like what I did. Here. It takes me 2 mins. to take on/off the car (including jacking the car up). It saved me $250+ and I don't have to run wires from the WB to my Tuning hardware. Just connect my laptop to the the OBDII with the standard cable and off I go. Since I race my car in a very limited budget I have to pinch pennies.
Originally Posted by brad8266
^^ 50$ to weld in a bung 
What a scam. Try more like 15$ and 8$ for the bung itself.
What a scam. Try more like 15$ and 8$ for the bung itself.
Originally Posted by Frost
Sure, 2 options:
1. Put your wideband in a NB bung, cut the pigtail off of an old NB 02, use analog 2 to simulate narrowband while you log WB on analog 1.
2. (easier) put the car you are tuning in open loop, put your WB in the NB bung and tune open loop.
1. Put your wideband in a NB bung, cut the pigtail off of an old NB 02, use analog 2 to simulate narrowband while you log WB on analog 1.
2. (easier) put the car you are tuning in open loop, put your WB in the NB bung and tune open loop.
The second choice displays my lack of experience; I thought you would always want to tune the lower RPMs in closed loop. Does it matter wheter or not you are tuning by fuel trims or VE?
Killer B....... Wow you must either have some major anological skills, or have a lot of time on your hands
That is some good stuff. I'm not sure what you do for a living, but you definitly (along with a lot of the guys here according to the writups I read) are a problem solver. 
I appricaiate all of the feedback guys, and apoligize for the "dumb" questions. This tuning stuff fascinates me!! I spent years tunng carb. cars basically blind, by "running and changing" till it ran best. I just wish someone would teach a course around here where they would let you watch the actual tuning (with HP in my case) Like I mentioned before, I learn by watching better than reading in most cases. But after you watch, the post make a lot more sense.
Thanks again
Originally Posted by foff667
Yeah...I live about a mile from mufflex & they usually do it for $25 for my customers.
Originally Posted by BOTTLE ROCKET
The second choice displays my lack of experience; I thought you would always want to tune the lower RPMs in closed loop. Does it matter wheter or not you are tuning by fuel trims or VE?
Example: Go into open loop hit cell 60Kpa and 1200 RPM's in the VE table, record the wideband AFR while in that cell. If your AFR is say 13.0 and stoich AFR is 14.7 then you need to take out 11.6% of fuel in that cell so all you have to do is multiply that cells vale by 88.4% to get fueling in that cell to 14,7. Then you move on to the next cell and do it again. This is very easy to do on a loading dyno.
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
From: Powell, TN
All this is great advice. I use a PLX SM-AFR, $195 for just the wideband, or $259 with a gauge. You could wire the power wire supply wires to a cigarette lighter adapter, put an alligator clip on the ground wire to be placed at or near the PCM, and just replace the stock narrowband sensor with the wideband sensor since you will be tuning in open loop anyway and not using the narrowbands. The wideband will be wired already into the HP Tuner Pro hardware, so nothing to do there. Like everone said, it would take just minutes to do.
When you get set up, follow these steps:
For VE Tuning with a wideband,
You need to:
- set the Engine/Fuel Control/OL & CL/Closed Loop Closed Loop Enable/ECT vs IAT to 284* across the board. This will put you in open loop along with setting the MAF fail freq to 0.
- on the same page as above, you want to disable LTFT
- also on this same page, in Open Loop/EQ Ratio, set all to 1.00 or I just change the ones from 140* and up to 1.00 (this will command 14.63 or stoich)
This step can be done several ways too. You can leave it as is if you want or change it to 1.13 which will command 13.0 AFR, it doesn't really matter what you are commanding, because the % error will still be the same. After going back to Closed Loop you won’t use this table anymore.
- in Engine/Fuel Control/Fuel Cutoff set DFCO enable temp to 284*
- in Engine/Fuel Control/COT, Lean Cruise set COT to disable
- in Eng. Diag/Airflow set MAF fail freq to 0 (you should also unplug the MAF if you can. If you are driving a 2001 and newer C-5 , the IAT is wired in the same plug, so you can’t unplug the MAF without doing some rewiring. They are seperate in the earlier C-5s)
- Now go log. Make sure you log VE for AFR, commanded AFR, and AFR percent error. I log first and then change the cell hits required to 25 for the percent error.
- Right click/Copy the percent error histogram
- Open Editor and use the paste special/multiply by % to the Engine/Airflow/General Airflow/Main VE/Primary table.
- Then, if you have a 1997-2000 C-5, copy the even numbered MAP lines to the secondary VE table by using the copy/paste method. Save and "write calibration only" to the PCM. Drive and see where you are.
Wash, Rinse, Repeat until your VE tables are in line. It should only take 3-4 runs.
After this, reset the MAF fail back to 14000 (leave everything else as is for now) and do the same thing for the MAF tables using MAF vs Output Freq (Hz) histograms instead of the VE histograms.
I don't know what you are driving, but this is for a corvette. It is all pretty much the same, some of your tables may be slightly different. Have fun.
When you get set up, follow these steps:
For VE Tuning with a wideband,
You need to:
- set the Engine/Fuel Control/OL & CL/Closed Loop Closed Loop Enable/ECT vs IAT to 284* across the board. This will put you in open loop along with setting the MAF fail freq to 0.
- on the same page as above, you want to disable LTFT
- also on this same page, in Open Loop/EQ Ratio, set all to 1.00 or I just change the ones from 140* and up to 1.00 (this will command 14.63 or stoich)
This step can be done several ways too. You can leave it as is if you want or change it to 1.13 which will command 13.0 AFR, it doesn't really matter what you are commanding, because the % error will still be the same. After going back to Closed Loop you won’t use this table anymore.
- in Engine/Fuel Control/Fuel Cutoff set DFCO enable temp to 284*
- in Engine/Fuel Control/COT, Lean Cruise set COT to disable
- in Eng. Diag/Airflow set MAF fail freq to 0 (you should also unplug the MAF if you can. If you are driving a 2001 and newer C-5 , the IAT is wired in the same plug, so you can’t unplug the MAF without doing some rewiring. They are seperate in the earlier C-5s)
- Now go log. Make sure you log VE for AFR, commanded AFR, and AFR percent error. I log first and then change the cell hits required to 25 for the percent error.
- Right click/Copy the percent error histogram
- Open Editor and use the paste special/multiply by % to the Engine/Airflow/General Airflow/Main VE/Primary table.
- Then, if you have a 1997-2000 C-5, copy the even numbered MAP lines to the secondary VE table by using the copy/paste method. Save and "write calibration only" to the PCM. Drive and see where you are.
Wash, Rinse, Repeat until your VE tables are in line. It should only take 3-4 runs.
After this, reset the MAF fail back to 14000 (leave everything else as is for now) and do the same thing for the MAF tables using MAF vs Output Freq (Hz) histograms instead of the VE histograms.
I don't know what you are driving, but this is for a corvette. It is all pretty much the same, some of your tables may be slightly different. Have fun.
Originally Posted by brad8266
.... If your AFR is say 13.0 and stoich AFR is 14.7 then you need to take out 11.6% of fuel in that cell so all you have to do is multiply that cells vale by 88.4% to get fueling in that cell to 14,7. Then you move on to the next cell and do it again. This is very easy to do on a loading dyno.