Diablo U7193 need more specific info on what it does.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 78
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Originally Posted by LS1_TA_2002
I think he needs to look at ALL of the tables involved in order to appreciate what is going on. I'm in Cali also LS6Vette. I have HPTuners software if you're ever in or near San Diego let me know and I'll show you how intricate these PCM's are.
P.S. If you had the Predator why didn't you do at least two 1/4mi. passes? One before the tune and one after. Surely, this couldn't have 'blown' up your engine. Or go and pay for a couple of dyno pulls? To see if there is any HP/TQ change. It seems that you're a fairly knowledgeable guy, but you seem to think that the factory already does their job of 'tuning' the PCM. Remember they are tuning a compromise between performance and 'EMISSIONS'. While handhelds veer their tune towards MAX safe power at the cost of elevated emissions. Yes, this aggressive approach to release more power from your stock engine is not without consequence. On ANY race application one must concede longevity over practicality, in other words, more power equals less engine life, but the same thing can be said about road/drag racing, which it seems you like doing. Regardless, if this power comes from a handheld tuner, stroker kit, or a blower one must be prepared for any negative outcomes. When in doubt just remeber this famous quote, "racing IS breaking". Hope this helps.
P.S. If you had the Predator why didn't you do at least two 1/4mi. passes? One before the tune and one after. Surely, this couldn't have 'blown' up your engine. Or go and pay for a couple of dyno pulls? To see if there is any HP/TQ change. It seems that you're a fairly knowledgeable guy, but you seem to think that the factory already does their job of 'tuning' the PCM. Remember they are tuning a compromise between performance and 'EMISSIONS'. While handhelds veer their tune towards MAX safe power at the cost of elevated emissions. Yes, this aggressive approach to release more power from your stock engine is not without consequence. On ANY race application one must concede longevity over practicality, in other words, more power equals less engine life, but the same thing can be said about road/drag racing, which it seems you like doing. Regardless, if this power comes from a handheld tuner, stroker kit, or a blower one must be prepared for any negative outcomes. When in doubt just remeber this famous quote, "racing IS breaking". Hope this helps.
Good post. I talked to Mike on the phone today, & reordered a Predator. I will install the tune & test it. I should probably get one of those gtech meters as I am not a big fan of SOP measurements.
I now realize after all the posts & talking to Mike, that it's a really multi dimensional, like three dimensional set of tables that you deal with & modify. Best left to guys with more interest & time to get into all that.
I know racin is breakin (I have broken a couple of times) and that is the beauty of being able to load a race tune for a day & load the stock back for the other 6 days. I drive the car every day (pretty easy on the street & hard as I can on the track).
I will probably be happy if I get 10hp/10tq with the base performance tune. That'll be good result for the money. That'll translate to the track.
I don't want to go to the raggity edge with the tune as I love the car & want to enjoy it for several years. Keep pretty stock. It's already plenty quick @ 3000 lbs 405hp/400tq
As for dyno pulls, there is too much variation from shop to shop/operator to operator/barometric pressure yadayada. I don't put much faith in it.
I win a race, put down fastest lap time, that's my proof.
I'm in SD also, maybe after I play with this tool a while we could hook up & I could learn a few things from you.
BTW this is a very cool forum, glad I joined it. Thanks mods, sponsers, etc. for being here.
Last edited by LS6Vette; May 10, 2007 at 06:52 PM.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 78
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The good & the bad Well I told Mike I would post about how the 7193 worked on my LS6 & here it is so far.
Good: Install was easy to do, got some phone help from Mike on the extra parameters needed for mine, rev lim & cags.
Car runs fine, no ck engine, can't really tell if more power is being made or not. Will test further.
Bad: CAGS defeat was supposed to be part of the performance program for my pcm, nevertheless Mike & I went in manually & checked it. The Predator said it was disabled,
but,
it's NOT. So whatever the Diablo GM tuner is setting/changing for CAGS disable on 7193/LS6 it's NOT WORKING.
The dash light still comes on and 1/2 shift is blocked.
Well this GM CAGS system has been around since at least the mid 90's model years if not before and my car is a 2004 and the Predator is bought in 2007, sooooo,
there's really no reason why this should not have been fixed a long time ago, correct?
Call/post/pm/email me so we can get this working please. And, up front, lets not get into mailing the unit back & forth. You could fix the software & send me one that's working & I'll send this one back, or I can download a bug fix if that is possible.
The jury is out at this point. Of course a problem like this makes me wonder what else that is supposed to be modified is actually being done or not?
Thank you. Let's work this out & you should (of course) fix your "master" program for this pcm/predator combo.
Good: Install was easy to do, got some phone help from Mike on the extra parameters needed for mine, rev lim & cags.
Car runs fine, no ck engine, can't really tell if more power is being made or not. Will test further.
Bad: CAGS defeat was supposed to be part of the performance program for my pcm, nevertheless Mike & I went in manually & checked it. The Predator said it was disabled,
but,
it's NOT. So whatever the Diablo GM tuner is setting/changing for CAGS disable on 7193/LS6 it's NOT WORKING.
The dash light still comes on and 1/2 shift is blocked.
Well this GM CAGS system has been around since at least the mid 90's model years if not before and my car is a 2004 and the Predator is bought in 2007, sooooo,
there's really no reason why this should not have been fixed a long time ago, correct?
Call/post/pm/email me so we can get this working please. And, up front, lets not get into mailing the unit back & forth. You could fix the software & send me one that's working & I'll send this one back, or I can download a bug fix if that is possible.
The jury is out at this point. Of course a problem like this makes me wonder what else that is supposed to be modified is actually being done or not?
Thank you. Let's work this out & you should (of course) fix your "master" program for this pcm/predator combo.
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 190
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I am glad you're at least dipping your toe into the pool. I understand your reservations. If I had a Z06 I would want to know what is happening to my baby also. Good luck with this CAGS issue I'm sure they will resolve it promptly.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by LS1_TA_2002
I am glad you're at least dipping your toe into the pool. I understand your reservations. If I had a Z06 I would want to know what is happening to my baby also. Good luck with this CAGS issue I'm sure they will resolve it promptly.
I'm not worried that Diablo will fix it, but why was it not right in the first place? Not like this is a brand new engine/pcm.
My biggest fear all along was that it (Predator performance tune) would "kill the car", by that I mean it would run bad and/or set the ses light & a bunch of codes.
Well it did NOT do that.
My 2nd biggest fear was that it would be a $400. plastic doorstop that really does not do what the manufacturer claims that it will do. Well we are right there at that step of the process now.
So let's get the cags fixed & then I'll do some tests with a G-Tech or similar perf. measuring tool.
Thanks for the post.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Got another question. I was using the tool to monitor KR yesterday (performance tune loaded). It was 0.0 which is good I guess. WOT 1st & 2nd to the rev limit.
It's a bit scary to be running your car that hard & try to look at the little bitty readout on the tool at the same time. Is there a recording feature on the tool? The owners manual (as I previously stated pretty limited) does not mention it, but there's a lot it doesn't mention. It would be very cool/useful if you could record some of the data sampling that the tool is doing.
There is a serial port in the bottom of the tool. What is that for?
Maybe I'll have to bribe some buddy into riding shotgun & holding the tool & a clipboard to scribble down some data. A couple of cold Coronas (after the testing) ought to be sufficient payment.
How do you guys manage this real time/live data function?
Thanks.
It's a bit scary to be running your car that hard & try to look at the little bitty readout on the tool at the same time. Is there a recording feature on the tool? The owners manual (as I previously stated pretty limited) does not mention it, but there's a lot it doesn't mention. It would be very cool/useful if you could record some of the data sampling that the tool is doing.
There is a serial port in the bottom of the tool. What is that for?
Maybe I'll have to bribe some buddy into riding shotgun & holding the tool & a clipboard to scribble down some data. A couple of cold Coronas (after the testing) ought to be sufficient payment.
How do you guys manage this real time/live data function?
Thanks.
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Joined: Dec 2005
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From: CT
see the "LOGGING" section at the following link:
http://diablosport.com/index.php?nam...iewtopic&t=917
http://diablosport.com/index.php?nam...iewtopic&t=917
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06MonteSS / DiabLew Tune
2014 Camaro 2SS/RS - LS3, 6-speed manual, short-throw performance shifter, NPP dual-mode performance exhaust, 1LE front splitter, ZL1 rockers, Z28 Rear Spoiler, all paint-matched Red Rock Metallic, BMR strut tower brace, Cold Air Inductions cold air intake, Apex Motorsports, Inc. catch-can, Custom DiabLew Tune
www.diablewtune.com -- www.diablocustomtune.com -- www.diablocustomtunegm.com
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 78
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Hi 06monte,
NICE WRITEUP. Towards the end there is another guy w/ 04 z06 & a 7193 Predator. Did it turn out that you can or cannot do logging that downloads to your pc with that tool?
I would really like to send you a log if I can do it with my tool.
NICE WRITEUP. Towards the end there is another guy w/ 04 z06 & a 7193 Predator. Did it turn out that you can or cannot do logging that downloads to your pc with that tool?
I would really like to send you a log if I can do it with my tool.
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,932
Likes: 12
From: CT
with your 7193, you can not do/save logs. You can only view the live data on the Predator screen while you're driving. You'll have to have someone do a ride-along with you and write numbers down.
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06MonteSS / DiabLew Tune
2014 Camaro 2SS/RS - LS3, 6-speed manual, short-throw performance shifter, NPP dual-mode performance exhaust, 1LE front splitter, ZL1 rockers, Z28 Rear Spoiler, all paint-matched Red Rock Metallic, BMR strut tower brace, Cold Air Inductions cold air intake, Apex Motorsports, Inc. catch-can, Custom DiabLew Tune
www.diablewtune.com -- www.diablocustomtune.com -- www.diablocustomtunegm.com
06MonteSS / DiabLew Tune
2014 Camaro 2SS/RS - LS3, 6-speed manual, short-throw performance shifter, NPP dual-mode performance exhaust, 1LE front splitter, ZL1 rockers, Z28 Rear Spoiler, all paint-matched Red Rock Metallic, BMR strut tower brace, Cold Air Inductions cold air intake, Apex Motorsports, Inc. catch-can, Custom DiabLew Tune
www.diablewtune.com -- www.diablocustomtune.com -- www.diablocustomtunegm.com
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Originally Posted by LS6Vette
So let's get the cags fixed & then I'll do some tests with a G-Tech or similar perf. measuring tool.
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On the tree
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The logging feature does not work on the LS1/LS6 cars, it was not supported by the factory ECM from what Diablo told me. The LS2 car doe have it though.
Also on the CAGS system. The problem from what Johan told me is that GM does not put the .Bin file in the same place in every ECM. The Predator looks for it to be in a specific place and when it is not there it is unable to catch the setting and disable it.
You will have to get the power adapter and serial cable and then download the Predator interface program from the Diablo website. Then you will have to download the performance tune from the Predator to the PC and email it to Diablo so that Johan or Mike can fix the CAGS file. They will send you a modified/Fixed file. You will upload it into the Predator and then back into the car.
My 01 Formula did the same thing, but for me it was more of a shut the light of thing because I had already installed the resistor into my harness to disable the CAGS seliniod from the first day I had my car.
Also on the CAGS system. The problem from what Johan told me is that GM does not put the .Bin file in the same place in every ECM. The Predator looks for it to be in a specific place and when it is not there it is unable to catch the setting and disable it.
You will have to get the power adapter and serial cable and then download the Predator interface program from the Diablo website. Then you will have to download the performance tune from the Predator to the PC and email it to Diablo so that Johan or Mike can fix the CAGS file. They will send you a modified/Fixed file. You will upload it into the Predator and then back into the car.
My 01 Formula did the same thing, but for me it was more of a shut the light of thing because I had already installed the resistor into my harness to disable the CAGS seliniod from the first day I had my car.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 747
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From: sofla
Originally Posted by LS6Vette
Well I told Mike I would post about how the 7193 worked on my LS6 & here it is so far.
Good: Install was easy to do, got some phone help from Mike on the extra parameters needed for mine, rev lim & cags.
Car runs fine, no ck engine, can't really tell if more power is being made or not. Will test further.
Bad: CAGS defeat was supposed to be part of the performance program for my pcm, nevertheless Mike & I went in manually & checked it. The Predator said it was disabled,
but,
it's NOT. So whatever the Diablo GM tuner is setting/changing for CAGS disable on 7193/LS6 it's NOT WORKING.
The dash light still comes on and 1/2 shift is blocked.
Well this GM CAGS system has been around since at least the mid 90's model years if not before and my car is a 2004 and the Predator is bought in 2007, sooooo,
there's really no reason why this should not have been fixed a long time ago, correct?
Call/post/pm/email me so we can get this working please. And, up front, lets not get into mailing the unit back & forth. You could fix the software & send me one that's working & I'll send this one back, or I can download a bug fix if that is possible.
The jury is out at this point. Of course a problem like this makes me wonder what else that is supposed to be modified is actually being done or not?
Thank you. Let's work this out & you should (of course) fix your "master" program for this pcm/predator combo.
Good: Install was easy to do, got some phone help from Mike on the extra parameters needed for mine, rev lim & cags.
Car runs fine, no ck engine, can't really tell if more power is being made or not. Will test further.
Bad: CAGS defeat was supposed to be part of the performance program for my pcm, nevertheless Mike & I went in manually & checked it. The Predator said it was disabled,
but,
it's NOT. So whatever the Diablo GM tuner is setting/changing for CAGS disable on 7193/LS6 it's NOT WORKING.
The dash light still comes on and 1/2 shift is blocked.
Well this GM CAGS system has been around since at least the mid 90's model years if not before and my car is a 2004 and the Predator is bought in 2007, sooooo,
there's really no reason why this should not have been fixed a long time ago, correct?
Call/post/pm/email me so we can get this working please. And, up front, lets not get into mailing the unit back & forth. You could fix the software & send me one that's working & I'll send this one back, or I can download a bug fix if that is possible.
The jury is out at this point. Of course a problem like this makes me wonder what else that is supposed to be modified is actually being done or not?
Thank you. Let's work this out & you should (of course) fix your "master" program for this pcm/predator combo.
Thats what happens when an A4 guy starts playing with CAGS!
OK, we never selected the 'off' switch in the Predator under CAGS. It was already set to off, and we just left it...oops. All that needs to be done here is go back in to the tool and select 'off' under CAGS and then reinstall the tune, all should be well.
Thanks
Mike
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
The cags "off" WAS highlighted when we did it on the phone & I saved the setting & loaded the mod parameter. I think it's not working because of what Sneaky said. 04 PCM is loaded different by gm.
Would you ask your GM tuner if that is the case? On another forum I found posts from other 04 z06 guys using Predator & having the same result.
I don't think I want to have to buy a cable & a/c adapter & start sending files back/forth to get it to work.
Thanks.
Would you ask your GM tuner if that is the case? On another forum I found posts from other 04 z06 guys using Predator & having the same result.
I don't think I want to have to buy a cable & a/c adapter & start sending files back/forth to get it to work.
Thanks.
LS1Tech Sponsor
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,932
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From: CT
it was "highlighted" (it's highlighted by default), but did you press the center round button on the predator to actually "select" it?? items are highlighted by default, but the setting is not changed or selected until you actually press the center/round button on the Predator.
after selecting it you would get the popup that asks you "are you sure" that you want to modify that parameter...
if you backed out to the install menu without actually changing/selecting the setting, you would get a popup saying "modify cancelled", or something very close to that...
after selecting it you would get the popup that asks you "are you sure" that you want to modify that parameter...
if you backed out to the install menu without actually changing/selecting the setting, you would get a popup saying "modify cancelled", or something very close to that...
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06MonteSS / DiabLew Tune
2014 Camaro 2SS/RS - LS3, 6-speed manual, short-throw performance shifter, NPP dual-mode performance exhaust, 1LE front splitter, ZL1 rockers, Z28 Rear Spoiler, all paint-matched Red Rock Metallic, BMR strut tower brace, Cold Air Inductions cold air intake, Apex Motorsports, Inc. catch-can, Custom DiabLew Tune
www.diablewtune.com -- www.diablocustomtune.com -- www.diablocustomtunegm.com
06MonteSS / DiabLew Tune
2014 Camaro 2SS/RS - LS3, 6-speed manual, short-throw performance shifter, NPP dual-mode performance exhaust, 1LE front splitter, ZL1 rockers, Z28 Rear Spoiler, all paint-matched Red Rock Metallic, BMR strut tower brace, Cold Air Inductions cold air intake, Apex Motorsports, Inc. catch-can, Custom DiabLew Tune
www.diablewtune.com -- www.diablocustomtune.com -- www.diablocustomtunegm.com
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: sofla
Originally Posted by LS6Vette
The cags "off" WAS highlighted when we did it on the phone & I saved the setting & loaded the mod parameter. I think it's not working because of what Sneaky said. 04 PCM is loaded different by gm.
Would you ask your GM tuner if that is the case? On another forum I found posts from other 04 z06 guys using Predator & having the same result.
I don't think I want to have to buy a cable & a/c adapter & start sending files back/forth to get it to work.
Thanks.
Would you ask your GM tuner if that is the case? On another forum I found posts from other 04 z06 guys using Predator & having the same result.
I don't think I want to have to buy a cable & a/c adapter & start sending files back/forth to get it to work.
Thanks.
The Predator will ask if you would like to save this change, choose yes then escape until it asks if you would like to install the modified tune.
Even though we did view this parameter in the list, we did not make any changes to it, and the off setting is the default, but it is left on unless you choose off.
Thanks
Mike
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
Thanks Mike,
CAGS = working
I believe that everything I wanted to modify is working. Need to drive a couple of days to verify, but looks good.
Good customer support, long wait on hold, but worth it.
Couple more questions:
1) Engine tq mgmt. How does this work? Does it retard spark to limit torque depending on certain parameters. What parameters? What makes it invoke? Wheelspin? Yaw? G force?
If I already have a built in way (button) to turn OFF traction control & active handling (most Vettes have this), then is there any reason or point in touching this parameter?
2) When a performance tune is loaded and/or when spark & fuel are adjusted, is there a certain number of run cycles/cold/hot/cold starts before it all starts to work at 100%. Like the pcm "learning" the new tune
OR
is it instantly working at 100% once you load it?
Thanks.
CAGS = working
I believe that everything I wanted to modify is working. Need to drive a couple of days to verify, but looks good.
Good customer support, long wait on hold, but worth it.
Couple more questions:
1) Engine tq mgmt. How does this work? Does it retard spark to limit torque depending on certain parameters. What parameters? What makes it invoke? Wheelspin? Yaw? G force?
If I already have a built in way (button) to turn OFF traction control & active handling (most Vettes have this), then is there any reason or point in touching this parameter?
2) When a performance tune is loaded and/or when spark & fuel are adjusted, is there a certain number of run cycles/cold/hot/cold starts before it all starts to work at 100%. Like the pcm "learning" the new tune
OR
is it instantly working at 100% once you load it?
Thanks.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 747
Likes: 0
From: sofla
Originally Posted by LS6Vette
Thanks Mike,
CAGS = working
I believe that everything I wanted to modify is working. Need to drive a couple of days to verify, but looks good.
Good customer support, long wait on hold, but worth it.
Couple more questions:
1) Engine tq mgmt. How does this work? Does it retard spark to limit torque depending on certain parameters. What parameters? What makes it invoke? Wheelspin? Yaw? G force?
If I already have a built in way (button) to turn OFF traction control & active handling (most Vettes have this), then is there any reason or point in touching this parameter?
2) When a performance tune is loaded and/or when spark & fuel are adjusted, is there a certain number of run cycles/cold/hot/cold starts before it all starts to work at 100%. Like the pcm "learning" the new tune
OR
is it instantly working at 100% once you load it?
Thanks.
CAGS = working
I believe that everything I wanted to modify is working. Need to drive a couple of days to verify, but looks good.
Good customer support, long wait on hold, but worth it.
Couple more questions:
1) Engine tq mgmt. How does this work? Does it retard spark to limit torque depending on certain parameters. What parameters? What makes it invoke? Wheelspin? Yaw? G force?
If I already have a built in way (button) to turn OFF traction control & active handling (most Vettes have this), then is there any reason or point in touching this parameter?
2) When a performance tune is loaded and/or when spark & fuel are adjusted, is there a certain number of run cycles/cold/hot/cold starts before it all starts to work at 100%. Like the pcm "learning" the new tune
OR
is it instantly working at 100% once you load it?
Thanks.
1.TM has the ability to pull timing, or worse even to close the throttle body if it so desires. Wheelspin, or abusive situations in general will invoke it. The tunes in the Predator eliminate most of the TM in the tunes, but you still have the option to remove it completely. This might be a good idea for those spirited trips through the cones.
The T/C and active handling are completely separate systems from torque management.
2.The PCM immediately begins relearning the new fuel trims as soon as the car is started, and usually relearns them once the O2s are fully up to temp, or after about 10-15 miles of driving.
Thanks
Mike
