I've purchased an LM-1 wideband, EFI Live v2, and a new laptop. My attempt at learning to tune on my stock boosted shortblock resulted in its death withen 850 miles of adding the blower. (D1SC Procharger at 11psi, cam, headers, valve springs)

I'm planning on installing my new engine this weekend. The new setup will be : TSP 402 9:1 comp with AFR 225 heads, 236/247 .650/.650 114lsa cam, F1A Procharger with a 4.25 blower pully, FMIC, Nasty Stage 3 fuel system, 75lb RC injectors, Meth injection, 3 bar map setup, ect. My goal is 850rwhp.

I'm trying to figure out what to do about tunning this setup. I really badly want to learn to tune myself but with all the money I've spent on this setup and the fact that I failed to tune the last setup correctly I do not feel comfortable "playing around" with it. I figure it will be pretty hard to tune on the street also.

As far as I know the closest dyno shop that I would trust to tune it is Thunder Racing and they are ~6 hours from me. I have no way to trailor the car so I would have to drive it there simi tunned "injector flow rate and the basic stuff is correct so it would run" on my skinneys.

The other option I've been thinking about is buying a RoadRunner setup since I already have everything else. I think this would actually be the cheeper option factoring in gas, hotel room, the cost of the tune.


So what do you guys think? Try to limp it 6 hours and have someone else tune it or buy a RoadRunner to go along with everything I've already bought. Tunning it the normal way is out of the question. I'm sick of messing with the software that I don't understand and I no longer trust myself.

 

Don't risk driving it without the correct tune. How close is Futral Motorsports to you? They're in LA as well.

I'm all for DIY tuning, however given your previous results and the fact you must have a sunk an ungodly amount of $$$ into a setup that requires a spot on tune from an experienced tuner, I would consider a professional. DIY tuning is a pretty steep learning curve to begin with, let alone with your setup.

Considering you already have the tuning software, you may look into a mail order tune with someone like Don at DEZ Racing (sponsor here, user Slowhawk). He uses EFIlive and can get you started with a basic tune. Then you can datalog and e-mail him the logs so he can tweak the tune further. Once the basic tune is driveable, you take it from there or maybe drive it to Thunder.

 

I'm almost on the Arkansas line. I think Futral is on the other end of the state not far from Thunder. EPP flashed the PCM with a basic tune when I purchased my procharger kit. I think they pretty much just changed the injector flow rate tables so that I could drive it. I tried to tune it myself following the AutoVE tunning tutorial. Even after logging ~500 miles of data the tune was still pretty bad off. Someone on this forum helped tune it like you said. I emailed him my logs and he made a few changes. I ended up richening it up even more after the changes he made and it finally seemed to be ok. I thought I had it. WOT AFR was anywhere from 11.5:1 to 12.5:1. It varied a bit but I thought it was good enough that I could beat on the car a bit and maybe take it to the track. It took about 2 days of me beating on the car and Never even got to take it to the track

I think the car would be safe to drive with the tune that is in it now. I know it would be really lean at WOT but I would keep it under 2500rpm and out of boost if I did decide to drive it to Thunder. It would need some break in miles anyway right?

I thought the RoadRunner made tunning really simple? I'm a Ford automotive tech so I understand how everything works. Its the software and the lack of instructions "other than autoVE" that get me.

 

i have the roadrunner...it just makes tuning faster....
I would richen up the boost ve map a good bit and start timing at 15 degrees total....maybe even 10 degrees...ultra safe. Then make some pulls on the street....copy/multiply the BENS and continue until its right. Make sure you got enuff fuel pump and injectors. Tune it for 11.0 to start with so if the meth fails it only goes to 11.5 a/f. WATCH THE WIDEBAND LIKE A HAWK. If you let someone else do it, you are gonna end up changing their tune by tweaking it and then you are right back where you started. Go slow this time and ask for help.

 

The RR is a great tool and makes life easier, but is only as good as the tuner behind it.

To get you going, you might try posing on the EFILive forum in the FI area. You might also try posting in the regional section here to see if there are any locals that can help you out.

 

Tuning is like cooking...

Your setup is like a fragile souflet.

Getting a better oven...the RR, will not guarantee your success.

I'd start by trying to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich first-

Pull the blower off, cut your teeth on tuning N/A.

If you don't have the time or patience for that then get it on a trailer to a competent shop.

 

Last time I tried to tune it I didn't have a boost VE map. I probably should have switched to the custom operating system 3 but I get confused every time I read about changing operating systems. The last two high map value columns were scaled way up from the rest of the VE table. I could hit the last column in the VE table at around 75% throttle. My understanding is that this made my tune really rich at 75% throttle but as I got closer to 100% WOT the AFR would fall back closer to where it should be. There are so many timming tables...I really don't know which one is the main or how to tell if I need to add more or less. I think I had 18* in the high map value/high rpm section of what I think is the main timming table. The fuel system should be good for 1000rwhp. I'm hoping the 75lb injectors with the adjustable fuel pressure regulator will be enough.

Every time I've asked for help people were just like "SEARCH AND READ YOU DUMBASS". I don't know where to start so I don't know what to search for. What I really need is someone to say OK, start with this table and do this till you get it correct. You will know it is correct because of this and this. Then move on to this table and do this ect. People talk about timming and act like there is one table. I open up the program and I see like 10 tables that deal with timming. I don't know what most of them mean other than reading the little discription so I sure don't know what to do with with them. I live way out in the country so I don't think I'm going to find anyone near me that can help. Everyone that has tried to help me so far has gotten fustrated because they tell me to do things like "switch to COS3" and I really don't understand how to do things like that.

I have the time. I run out of patience when I make changes and can't see results. The more I read the more I'm thinking I was having trouble because I was using the factory operating system and I was maxing out the VE table at part throttle. AutoVE never seemed to work correctly and thats when I started getting fustrated. I started making manual changes to the VE table and logging runs. I did that till my WOT AFR was about where I wanted it. I thought I had the tune pretty good. I probably hurt the engine in the process though.

Trailoring the car is not an option. I don't have a trailor or a truck that could pull it. What is wrong with me tunning it really safe and driving it to the shop while staying out of boost? I realize the dangers of running it super lean or washing down the cylinders from running to rich. I would drive it around town and make sure the AFR isn't dangerous before I took off on the long trip. Even if I did find some way to trailor the car I really don't think it is a good idea to bring it to get dyno tunned without even starting it up and checking for issues first. I honestly think the car would start up and run just fine with the tune that is in it but I could pull a little more timming out of it and maybe richen it up just a tad to make up for the added cubes.

 

i followed the directions to make a COS5 and it worked perfectly. I had NO clue what i was doing...read the tutorials and even used the one thats kinda like a video on the efilive page....you are much better off learning to tune it yourself...take the time.....the education last forever and you can really understand how everything works. WOT is by far the easiest to tune...hardest part is idle.

 

The Roadrunner ONLY makes tuning quicker for people who know what they are doing. It does NOT make learning to tune easier, and could potentially be worse for a beginner. Giving a scalpel to a logger doesn't make him a surgeon.

 

Thanks for the replys guys. You have all made it clear that the RoadRunner will not tune it for me as I thought. So anyone want to help me get it tunned good enough that I can drive it to get it tunned by Thunder? I think the tune I have now would be a good start but it would be nice if someone would look it over. I really want heat cycle it a few times and break it in a bit before throwing it on a dyno to be tunned. I may even try switching it to COS3 or 5 whichever looks better.

 

Sweet ride! Just take it slow and ask questions. Everyone had to start somewhere.

 

Well, it has been a long weekend but we got it done. The new 402 is in. Still haven't started it up yet. Tomorrow I'm going to redo my PVC system and get it back set up for NA. I think I'll put some miles on it NA and check everything out before I put the blower on and take it to get tunned. Still waiting on a few things to come in the mail.

 

i disagree... i had a roadrunner for a while on my boosted 408 and it makes tunning much easier and makes learning that much faster.... i thought it was worth it as long as the car is not a race car... if its a race car get the bs3 and digital 7 box because you'll have to have it sooner or later anyways...

 

I have the RoadRunner in my Z06. You should already have a grasp on tuning. I would not recommend it otherwise. Just my opinion.

Several advantages of RR:

1. You don't have to use the OBD2 port to flash the processor. There is a USB cable directly connected to the RR that flashes it or you can use bluetooth w/no usb cable. The writes are much faster than using obd2.
You don't need the key on for the vehicle to flash the roadrunner in emulation mode. It uses laptop USB power. Also, you can flash parameters while the engine is still running, ie part of the concept of RTACS.

2. You can still use OBD2 datalogging like usual, widebands, etc.

3. RTACS is an automated, user programmed real time tuning soln.
For example, VE tune. When setting up the VE table, you can program RTACS to AUTOMATICALLY change the VE table as you are driving the vehicle based on feedback from your wideband or fuel trims. This feature can be applied to just about every param in the pcm.

4. Once you know how to use it, you can tune your car MUCH faster.

5. Its the most advanced, complex tuning system avail, but in my opinion, the best.