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Fixed TA Headlights Coming (thread from Feb 2005)
04-10-2005, 07:52 PM
#81
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Originally Posted by HPP
HA!
I don't agree with the fixed look, so I come off as mean and negative. lol Notice, as Psyko pointed out, who doesn't get called out like that. Whoo-boy. Pure comedy.
FYI Jason, I posted because 1 - that's what a discussion is, a sharing of viewpoints. If everyone is chiming in with a me too, it's an AOL circle jerk. 2 - As we see from Steve, people STILL have this ridiculous notion that they are somehow worse for aero, despite the fact that the only time it matters is during HIGH speed driving, which should only be done during the day and on a track. Going that fast at night is going too fast and you don't deserve the car. You're only going to end up reducing the numbers of a finite resource. On the contrary, they allow for a much sleeker nose, with more room inside. The only way to get exposed lights without a blunt nose is to eat up a lot of space inside setting them way back. And for that matter, a pound or 2 makes no difference one way or another.
Plus I can't help but wonder why you guys didn't just buy Camaros. :shrug:
I don't agree with the fixed look, so I come off as mean and negative. lol Notice, as Psyko pointed out, who doesn't get called out like that. Whoo-boy. Pure comedy.
FYI Jason, I posted because 1 - that's what a discussion is, a sharing of viewpoints. If everyone is chiming in with a me too, it's an AOL circle jerk. 2 - As we see from Steve, people STILL have this ridiculous notion that they are somehow worse for aero, despite the fact that the only time it matters is during HIGH speed driving, which should only be done during the day and on a track. Going that fast at night is going too fast and you don't deserve the car. You're only going to end up reducing the numbers of a finite resource. On the contrary, they allow for a much sleeker nose, with more room inside. The only way to get exposed lights without a blunt nose is to eat up a lot of space inside setting them way back. And for that matter, a pound or 2 makes no difference one way or another.
Plus I can't help but wonder why you guys didn't just buy Camaros. :shrug:
no one is telling you what to buy or HOW to drive. please dont tell us what is correct driving in your opinion. he just asked about lights. i respect that you want to keep the pop ups. but while i dont know about you my ws6 is a daily driver. snow, sleet and frozen rain can ruin the motors and gears in a heartbeat. i like the overall look of the car. and i would like options for my lighting needs. **** trucks have options out the wazzu but my choices are very limited. carbon fiber, HID, Denali front ends hell the list is as long as your arm. basicly its about choices.
04-11-2005, 08:21 AM
#82
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gluemaker, I had no intentions of reposting to this thread, but forgot to turn off the subscription to it, and you decided to take me to task.
If you bought a car with flip up headlights, and don't like them, or can't accept potential problems with them, then you bought the wrong car for your daily driving purposes.
You can disagree with that all you like. You can say I'm telling you what to do or whatever it is you imagine, it doesn't matter. I've been through that phase, couldn't afford 2 cars so I got the one I wanted ('84 T-Top T/A at the time, and then an '88 hard top GTA later), and used it year round, every day. People always told me I was using a high maintenance fair weather car for a daily driver, IOW, I was using the wrong car for the task. I never listened to them. After enough problems lead to me being forced into a '90 Grand Prix (6cyl FWD, 2 things I SWORE I would NEVER do), I finally got it. So when I got my '02 WS6 T/A, I knew the only choice was to do it right, or not do it at all. A '91 Grand Prix (the '90 was totaled by a Ford Stupid Usless Vehicle, because those things can't stop and people insist on driving them like sports cars) obtained for $1900 handles the dirty work and the WS6 is reserved for nice weather days that I have off. It's a beautiful thing and it cost next to nothing. Bought the GP outright, and with 2 cars on 1 policy the rates are low, I save gas and save on upkeep. IOW - everyone was right when they told me I was using the wrong car for the task. These ARE high maintenance cars. They are not suited for daily driving in most cases. In any case that they are used for such, the operator must accept the costs of operation.
Now let's clear up a misunderstanding - I'm not telling you (or anyone else) that you can't do this conversion, or that you must get a 2nd car. What I am telling you is that if your reason for the conversion is maintenance and problems related to year 'round operation, then it's the wrong reason. Even more so for drag. At automobile speeds drag is almost a non-issue. It will affect mileage in the long term, but it won't slow you down. And with a 350 under the hood, your right foot will do far more damage to mileage than the headlights being up EVER could.
The amount of weight is negligible, the drag is totally negligible, the reliability/maintenance is the cost of operation and also small, and for bad weather operations, it's about the *most* ILL-suited car one could possibly pick.
If you bought a car with flip up headlights, and don't like them, or can't accept potential problems with them, then you bought the wrong car for your daily driving purposes.
You can disagree with that all you like. You can say I'm telling you what to do or whatever it is you imagine, it doesn't matter. I've been through that phase, couldn't afford 2 cars so I got the one I wanted ('84 T-Top T/A at the time, and then an '88 hard top GTA later), and used it year round, every day. People always told me I was using a high maintenance fair weather car for a daily driver, IOW, I was using the wrong car for the task. I never listened to them. After enough problems lead to me being forced into a '90 Grand Prix (6cyl FWD, 2 things I SWORE I would NEVER do), I finally got it. So when I got my '02 WS6 T/A, I knew the only choice was to do it right, or not do it at all. A '91 Grand Prix (the '90 was totaled by a Ford Stupid Usless Vehicle, because those things can't stop and people insist on driving them like sports cars) obtained for $1900 handles the dirty work and the WS6 is reserved for nice weather days that I have off. It's a beautiful thing and it cost next to nothing. Bought the GP outright, and with 2 cars on 1 policy the rates are low, I save gas and save on upkeep. IOW - everyone was right when they told me I was using the wrong car for the task. These ARE high maintenance cars. They are not suited for daily driving in most cases. In any case that they are used for such, the operator must accept the costs of operation.
Now let's clear up a misunderstanding - I'm not telling you (or anyone else) that you can't do this conversion, or that you must get a 2nd car. What I am telling you is that if your reason for the conversion is maintenance and problems related to year 'round operation, then it's the wrong reason. Even more so for drag. At automobile speeds drag is almost a non-issue. It will affect mileage in the long term, but it won't slow you down. And with a 350 under the hood, your right foot will do far more damage to mileage than the headlights being up EVER could.
The amount of weight is negligible, the drag is totally negligible, the reliability/maintenance is the cost of operation and also small, and for bad weather operations, it's about the *most* ILL-suited car one could possibly pick.
05-14-2005, 03:48 PM
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Wow HPP, you've got a pretty skewed view on life.
TO down the guy who wants to modify his car or to tell him to "get over it", really goes against the principals of this board; modification and friendly / like-minded community.
Tell someone not to replace / change something that's known to break or to improve is like saying, only use stock parts, do not replace your brake pads until they fail, don't get better windshield wipers, just run it the way they handed it to you and "get over it and accept what you have, don't make it better".
Just plain silly...
TO down the guy who wants to modify his car or to tell him to "get over it", really goes against the principals of this board; modification and friendly / like-minded community.
Tell someone not to replace / change something that's known to break or to improve is like saying, only use stock parts, do not replace your brake pads until they fail, don't get better windshield wipers, just run it the way they handed it to you and "get over it and accept what you have, don't make it better".
Just plain silly...
06-16-2005, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by HPP
. . . At automobile speeds drag is almost a non-issue. It will affect mileage in the long term, but it won't slow you down. And with a 350 under the hood, your right foot will do far more damage to mileage than the headlights being up EVER could.
The amount of weight is negligible, the drag is totally negligible . . .
The amount of weight is negligible, the drag is totally negligible . . .
The point at which aerodynamic drag is an "issue" is relative from driver to driver and driving situation to situation. I'd like someone to justify drag at "speed" to be "negligible" to Porsche, Ferrari, and Lamborghini . . . even the more than a decade old McLaren F1.
Drag is a HUGE issue to a road racer on a long straight. Drag will also GREATLY limit top speed (not to mention the time necessary to reach anywhere near those speeds eg. long straight on a road course or track).
"Weight," again, is relative to the situation. In racing it is CRUCIAL; shouldn't really need to go into detail about that on a performance tech site like this one though
Not trying to flame, just offering a different perspective to the one given
06-16-2005, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by The Dragon
Don't know you and haven't read this thread but I must reply to the general statements/opinions here.
The point at which aerodynamic drag is an "issue" is relative from driver to driver and driving situation to situation. I'd like someone to justify drag at "speed" to be "negligible" to Porsche, Ferrari, and Lamborghini . . . even the more than a decade old McLaren F1.
Drag is a HUGE issue to a road racer on a long straight. Drag will also GREATLY limit top speed (not to mention the time necessary to reach anywhere near those speeds eg. long straight on a road course or track).
"Weight," again, is relative to the situation. In racing it is CRUCIAL; shouldn't really need to go into detail about that on a performance tech site like this one though
Not trying to flame, just offering a different perspective to the one given
The point at which aerodynamic drag is an "issue" is relative from driver to driver and driving situation to situation. I'd like someone to justify drag at "speed" to be "negligible" to Porsche, Ferrari, and Lamborghini . . . even the more than a decade old McLaren F1.
Drag is a HUGE issue to a road racer on a long straight. Drag will also GREATLY limit top speed (not to mention the time necessary to reach anywhere near those speeds eg. long straight on a road course or track).
"Weight," again, is relative to the situation. In racing it is CRUCIAL; shouldn't really need to go into detail about that on a performance tech site like this one though
Not trying to flame, just offering a different perspective to the one given
. But, you made some good points.
06-16-2005, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by psykoTA
At first, I was thinking oh great, this debate will never end . But, you made some good points.
. But, you made some good points. On a different note:
If the lights are a good, sturdy quality and are aesthetically pleasing; I could care less what they cost, I'll pay $1000 tomorrow if the above requirements are met
And I'd probably order two sets
06-16-2005, 09:21 PM
#91
I was working on making a set in my spare time (just for myself, not to sell) and I'll tell you, the engineering part of the project is way more complex than anyone thinks. I've run into problems with making the projectors both high beam and low beam and other things so I've had to go back and change the design a few times. I'm still trying to figure out the best way to actually put them all together and this is just a one off build.
I can imagine the difficulty of someone who has the added challenge on making them on a budget, making them fairly quickly for mass production as well as making them bolt on without too many problems. You would almost need a team of engineers and specialists to produce a really good product.
I'm not surprised no one has been able to actually produce a set of fixed lights.
I can imagine the difficulty of someone who has the added challenge on making them on a budget, making them fairly quickly for mass production as well as making them bolt on without too many problems. You would almost need a team of engineers and specialists to produce a really good product.
I'm not surprised no one has been able to actually produce a set of fixed lights.
Last edited by JasonWW; 08-14-2005 at 05:23 PM.
06-16-2005, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonWW
I was working on making a set in my sppare time (just for myself, not to sell) and I'll tell you, the engineering part of the project is way more complex than anyone thinks. I've run into problems with making the projectors both high beam and low beam and other things so I've had to go back and change the design a few times. I'm still trying to figure out the best way to actually put them all together and this is just a one off build.
I can imagine the difficulty of someone who has the added challenge on making them on a budget, making them fairly quickly for mass production as well as making them bolt on without too many problems. You would almost need a team of engineers and specialists to produce a really good product.
I'm not surprised no one has been able to actually produce a set of fixed lights.
I can imagine the difficulty of someone who has the added challenge on making them on a budget, making them fairly quickly for mass production as well as making them bolt on without too many problems. You would almost need a team of engineers and specialists to produce a really good product.
I'm not surprised no one has been able to actually produce a set of fixed lights.
....
08-04-2005, 03:54 PM
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To me - the drag at night from the pop up headlights is what I would like to get rid of most. I used to think having the lights on detracted from the look of the car (even though I upgraded the housings and bulbs a couple years ago for a simulated HID setup that truly upgraded visibilty and looks) - but then I was taking pics of my car beside a '69 TA and a buddy suggested that I pop the headlights up - but with just the park lights and fogs on along with the park lights on in the '69 - and WOW - they turned out great since the '69 has quad headlights as well. I was really surprised and don't feel as though the headlights detract from the look of the car any longer.
08-15-2005, 12:40 PM
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Yeah, what gives? Any progress?
I'm getting ready to buy those shoddy breathles performance lights cause I'm tired of the pop-up headlight woes. If these things are near prototype stages I'm game...
I'm getting ready to buy those shoddy breathles performance lights cause I'm tired of the pop-up headlight woes. If these things are near prototype stages I'm game...
