question about LS1 in the GTO's
08-05-2004, 11:52 AM
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question about LS1 in the GTO's are they like the birds and camaros like the 01's and 02's? do they have the LS1 or LS6 intake Manifold....and do they have the smaller cam sitting on the 115 LSA (truck cam) or the bigger one sitting on the 119 LSA (vette cam)
08-05-2004, 12:35 PM
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They are the F-Body LS1, with LS6 intake, different oil pan, and cable throttle mechanism.
I don't think there are any "hard" specs out on the factory cam in this car and since so few are on the road, even less have removed their stockers to measure. So I don't have that answer as of yet. All we've been told is that it is similar to the Vette cam.
I don't think there are any "hard" specs out on the factory cam in this car and since so few are on the road, even less have removed their stockers to measure. So I don't have that answer as of yet. All we've been told is that it is similar to the Vette cam.
08-08-2004, 11:56 PM
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well...the Vette motor was in the 98-00 Camaros and Birds...LS1 intake manifold yet a nice big duratioon and lift cam on a 119LSA...where as 01-02 had the samller "truck" cam on the 115 LSA and a LS6 Intake Manifold..Soudns meaner more throat and choppyness during IDLE...now the Vette speced out with True duals and sounds whiny...does the GTO do the same or is it throatier is that cuz of camshaft or jsut the true dual setup???my buddy wants the sound of the GTO...hes ard it i havent that why...and sound clips he said sdoesnt do it justice
08-09-2004, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 02WS6Bird
my buddy wants the sound of the GTO...hes ard it i havent that why...and sound clips he said sdoesnt do it justice
08-09-2004, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 02WS6Bird
well...the Vette motor was in the 98-00 Camaros and Birds...LS1 intake manifold yet a nice big duratioon and lift cam on a 119LSA...where as 01-02 had the samller "truck" cam on the 115 LSA and a LS6 Intake Manifold..Soudns meaner more throat and choppyness during IDLE...now the Vette speced out with True duals and sounds whiny...does the GTO do the same or is it throatier is that cuz of camshaft or jsut the true dual setup???my buddy wants the sound of the GTO...hes ard it i havent that why...and sound clips he said sdoesnt do it justice
What differentiated the F-Body LS1 was;
- Oil pan. The Vette's had wings on the aluminum casting which acted as mounting points for the engine to the cradle. The F-Body uses a regular cast aluminum pan. The GTO's LS1 has the pan on almost as if it's backwards.
- Camshaft. The F-Body from the get go, has always had a slightly less "hot" cam than the Vette.
- The F-Body's whether they had the LS1 intake, or the LS6 intake in the later years, had cable controlled throttle bodies. Vette's have always used an electronic throttle control. Same as the Vortec truck applications. F-Bodies with LS1 intakes also had an EGR system. F-Bodies with the LS6 intake and all Vette's LS1 or LS6 intake did NOT have an EGR setup. They made up for it in the ramp speeds on the camshaft.
- Injector sizes changed throughout the years. All 97 & 98's (regardless of whether it was an F-Body or Vette) had 28 pound/hr injectors. 99's - 01's had 26.5 pound/hr injectors, then they went back up to 28 pound/hr again for '02's.
- Cast iron headers were installed on all LS1's instead of the double walled stainless steel as used on earlier models.
Just because an F-Body had an LS6 intake from the factory does not mean it had LS6 heads and cam. Some 2002's did slip down the line with LS6 heads, even less slipped down the line with LS6 blocks (both can be verified with the part# stamping on them), but otherwise, those were the differences.
After all this, the GTO's LS1 does not have a;
- Vette oil pan. It is similar to an F-Body but backwards due to the rear steer chassis
- Electronic throttle control
- It, just like the F-Body is hit or miss on LS6 heads from the factory. and even less a hit or miss on the LS6 block. Part numbers need to be matched up.
It does have a;
- Vette camshaft (once again, I don't know the specs)
- LS6 intake
- Cable throttle body
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08-10-2004, 01:14 AM
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What are the LS6 casting numbers and locations? Just out of curiosity....
Originally Posted by CMNTMXR57
The LS1 used in F-Body's was slightly different than the Vette throughout the entire 1998 - 2002 run.
What differentiated the F-Body LS1 was;
- Oil pan. The Vette's had wings on the aluminum casting which acted as mounting points for the engine to the cradle. The F-Body uses a regular cast aluminum pan. The GTO's LS1 has the pan on almost as if it's backwards.
- Camshaft. The F-Body from the get go, has always had a slightly less "hot" cam than the Vette.
- The F-Body's whether they had the LS1 intake, or the LS6 intake in the later years, had cable controlled throttle bodies. Vette's have always used an electronic throttle control. Same as the Vortec truck applications. F-Bodies with LS1 intakes also had an EGR system. F-Bodies with the LS6 intake and all Vette's LS1 or LS6 intake did NOT have an EGR setup. They made up for it in the ramp speeds on the camshaft.
- Injector sizes changed throughout the years. All 97 & 98's (regardless of whether it was an F-Body or Vette) had 28 pound/hr injectors. 99's - 01's had 26.5 pound/hr injectors, then they went back up to 28 pound/hr again for '02's.
- Cast iron headers were installed on all LS1's instead of the double walled stainless steel as used on earlier models.
Just because an F-Body had an LS6 intake from the factory does not mean it had LS6 heads and cam. Some 2002's did slip down the line with LS6 heads, even less slipped down the line with LS6 blocks (both can be verified with the part# stamping on them), but otherwise, those were the differences.
After all this, the GTO's LS1 does not have a;
- Vette oil pan. It is similar to an F-Body but backwards due to the rear steer chassis
- Electronic throttle control
- It, just like the F-Body is hit or miss on LS6 heads from the factory. and even less a hit or miss on the LS6 block. Part numbers need to be matched up.
It does have a;
- Vette camshaft (once again, I don't know the specs)
- LS6 intake
- Cable throttle body
What differentiated the F-Body LS1 was;
- Oil pan. The Vette's had wings on the aluminum casting which acted as mounting points for the engine to the cradle. The F-Body uses a regular cast aluminum pan. The GTO's LS1 has the pan on almost as if it's backwards.
- Camshaft. The F-Body from the get go, has always had a slightly less "hot" cam than the Vette.
- The F-Body's whether they had the LS1 intake, or the LS6 intake in the later years, had cable controlled throttle bodies. Vette's have always used an electronic throttle control. Same as the Vortec truck applications. F-Bodies with LS1 intakes also had an EGR system. F-Bodies with the LS6 intake and all Vette's LS1 or LS6 intake did NOT have an EGR setup. They made up for it in the ramp speeds on the camshaft.
- Injector sizes changed throughout the years. All 97 & 98's (regardless of whether it was an F-Body or Vette) had 28 pound/hr injectors. 99's - 01's had 26.5 pound/hr injectors, then they went back up to 28 pound/hr again for '02's.
- Cast iron headers were installed on all LS1's instead of the double walled stainless steel as used on earlier models.
Just because an F-Body had an LS6 intake from the factory does not mean it had LS6 heads and cam. Some 2002's did slip down the line with LS6 heads, even less slipped down the line with LS6 blocks (both can be verified with the part# stamping on them), but otherwise, those were the differences.
After all this, the GTO's LS1 does not have a;
- Vette oil pan. It is similar to an F-Body but backwards due to the rear steer chassis
- Electronic throttle control
- It, just like the F-Body is hit or miss on LS6 heads from the factory. and even less a hit or miss on the LS6 block. Part numbers need to be matched up.
It does have a;
- Vette camshaft (once again, I don't know the specs)
- LS6 intake
- Cable throttle body
08-10-2004, 10:29 AM
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18,000 Cars in one huge country like yours you would be very very lucky to see one on the road.
We have a high performence car here that was built in 2001 Called the HSV SV300 i have never ever seen one on the road or in a car dealers.
We have a high performence car here that was built in 2001 Called the HSV SV300 i have never ever seen one on the road or in a car dealers.
08-11-2004, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by yellow4.8
There is none on the streets, but many at dealers whats the reason.
Not many people even know they exsist for two.
I had a Black A4 2 weeks ago on a Saturday for 10 hours, put 185 miles on it, mildly impressed, quite a heavy car, so not as fast as my Z was stock, but nice cruiser none the less.
Dealer has contacted me twice in 2 weeks to see if we can work a deal.
If the price is right I would buy it, but knowing what I know about the "05's" https://ls1tech.com/forums/pontiac-gto-2004-2006/197470-got-info-05-a.html having the LS2 with 50 more ponies, and the dual exhaust outlets being on opposite sides like American
muscle should, and the ram air hood being made available too next year, I would rather just wait for a Purple "05" myself. Last edited by Orange Krush; 08-11-2004 at 06:42 PM.
08-11-2004, 08:23 PM
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Very expensive?
a fully loaded WS6 topped aout at $31,7xx when I went and looked into getting a brother to my Z28. The day I bought my Z28, a nice black SS sold for just about $31k.
Most GTO's may sticker at $33,190 (M6) or 33,495 (A4) but now can be had for $28k.
And stock for stock, my GTO was quicker than my Z28 and stronger on the dyno.
a fully loaded WS6 topped aout at $31,7xx when I went and looked into getting a brother to my Z28. The day I bought my Z28, a nice black SS sold for just about $31k.
Most GTO's may sticker at $33,190 (M6) or 33,495 (A4) but now can be had for $28k.
And stock for stock, my GTO was quicker than my Z28 and stronger on the dyno.
08-11-2004, 09:08 PM
#13
Originally Posted by CMNTMXR57
And stock for stock, my GTO was quicker than my Z28 and stronger on the dyno.
But in all honesty, it was the first year for that engine in the fbod, and there is a reason why stuff got changed for 99.
08-12-2004, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by CMNTMXR57
Very expensive?
a fully loaded WS6 topped aout at $31,7xx when I went and looked into getting a brother to my Z28. The day I bought my Z28, a nice black SS sold for just about $31k.
Most GTO's may sticker at $33,190 (M6) or 33,495 (A4) but now can be had for $28k.
And stock for stock, my GTO was quicker than my Z28 and stronger on the dyno.
a fully loaded WS6 topped aout at $31,7xx when I went and looked into getting a brother to my Z28. The day I bought my Z28, a nice black SS sold for just about $31k.
Most GTO's may sticker at $33,190 (M6) or 33,495 (A4) but now can be had for $28k.
And stock for stock, my GTO was quicker than my Z28 and stronger on the dyno.
Very expensive, at least compared to my $22,900. Z/28. And yes the 3720 lb. GTO is much slower 1320 wise, than my 3510 lb. 99 Z's was/is!
Not anything the Magnuson Supercharger
couldn't fix/equaliz mind U!
08-12-2004, 09:55 AM
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And my Z28 was $24k. What's the point? Doesn't change the fact that a '98 SS was sold the same day for $31k. Doesn't change the fact that in '99 when I priced out that WS6, they wanted $31,7xx for it!
The GTO is also 10x the car my Z28 is not so much in "options" but in terms of quality, precision, and user friendliness. Stuff that emperical data can't quantify.
My Z28 weighs 3,460lbs, my GTO weighs 3,760lbs. Yes, a 300lb difference. But stock for stock, my Z28 pulled 283 rwhp (and it was one of the stronger ones in the MFBA at the day DMNSPD) with 500 miles on it, my GTO pulled 299 rwhp this past January right off the transporter. The Camaro was also at a slight gearing disadvantage, 3.42 vs. the GTO's 3.46. The Camaro ran a 13.7 @ 101. My GTO went quicker and faster. Period!
Back to it being expensive, I compared the GTO to other forms of domestic daily transport, such as Impala's, Taurus's, and GTP's. Most of which hover in the high $20's to low $30's. The 2003 Monte Carlo SS which we recently purchased was nearly $28k fully loaded. We didn't pay that mind you. I Looked recently at a GTP for a daily driver and it was nearly $30k!
And I think I can safely say that none of those cars pack an LS1, 6 speed manual and spin it through the rear wheels. Unless you know something I don't!
DMN, everything is improved through the years. By your logic, my '04 has improvements over the '99's!
The GTO is also 10x the car my Z28 is not so much in "options" but in terms of quality, precision, and user friendliness. Stuff that emperical data can't quantify.
My Z28 weighs 3,460lbs, my GTO weighs 3,760lbs. Yes, a 300lb difference. But stock for stock, my Z28 pulled 283 rwhp (and it was one of the stronger ones in the MFBA at the day DMNSPD) with 500 miles on it, my GTO pulled 299 rwhp this past January right off the transporter. The Camaro was also at a slight gearing disadvantage, 3.42 vs. the GTO's 3.46. The Camaro ran a 13.7 @ 101. My GTO went quicker and faster. Period!
Back to it being expensive, I compared the GTO to other forms of domestic daily transport, such as Impala's, Taurus's, and GTP's. Most of which hover in the high $20's to low $30's. The 2003 Monte Carlo SS which we recently purchased was nearly $28k fully loaded. We didn't pay that mind you. I Looked recently at a GTP for a daily driver and it was nearly $30k!
And I think I can safely say that none of those cars pack an LS1, 6 speed manual and spin it through the rear wheels. Unless you know something I don't!
DMN, everything is improved through the years. By your logic, my '04 has improvements over the '99's!
08-12-2004, 04:43 PM
#18
The GTO LS1 has...
# 12561721 camshaft -- Same as 2001-2002 F-Body and 6.0 Truck.
# 88894339 intake -- same as 2001-2002 F-Body and 2001-2004 Corvette (LS6 intake)
As far as heads GM shows LS1 heads since 1999 are all the same including GTO (# 12559855).
Hope this clears things up!
# 12561721 camshaft -- Same as 2001-2002 F-Body and 6.0 Truck.
# 88894339 intake -- same as 2001-2002 F-Body and 2001-2004 Corvette (LS6 intake)
As far as heads GM shows LS1 heads since 1999 are all the same including GTO (# 12559855).
Hope this clears things up!