2005 Mustang GT VS 2004 GTO
#21
Long time lurker - first post.
It was a tough choice for me and my wife as well. I have an '02ws6. When looking for my wife we debated the GTO and the GT. We decided on the GT. We figured the performance was close, so we went on looks, and chose the GT.
Being former GT owners, I think you guys are severly underestimating the aftermarket for performance parts. The mustang aftermarket is a HUGE industry. Anyone that thinks that the normal range of performance parts will not be readily available is kidding themselves.
Anyway, both cars rule! I love the GTO, and will probably end up with the redisigned '07 GTO, if they don't really screw it up.
It was a tough choice for me and my wife as well. I have an '02ws6. When looking for my wife we debated the GTO and the GT. We decided on the GT. We figured the performance was close, so we went on looks, and chose the GT.
Being former GT owners, I think you guys are severly underestimating the aftermarket for performance parts. The mustang aftermarket is a HUGE industry. Anyone that thinks that the normal range of performance parts will not be readily available is kidding themselves.
Anyway, both cars rule! I love the GTO, and will probably end up with the redisigned '07 GTO, if they don't really screw it up.
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The Mustang does have a huge aftermarket, but you forget the GTO has basicly the same aftermarket thanks to the LS1/LS2 motors in the GTO. The only thing that is hard to upgrade in the GTO so far is the selection of off the shelf wheels due to its euro lug standard and odd offsets. Even that problem is lesser now as well.
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Originally Posted by Nox
Long time lurker - first post.
It was a tough choice for me and my wife as well. I have an '02ws6. When looking for my wife we debated the GTO and the GT. We decided on the GT. We figured the performance was close, so we went on looks, and chose the GT.
Being former GT owners, I think you guys are severly underestimating the aftermarket for performance parts. The mustang aftermarket is a HUGE industry. Anyone that thinks that the normal range of performance parts will not be readily available is kidding themselves.
Anyway, both cars rule! I love the GTO, and will probably end up with the redisigned '07 GTO, if they don't really screw it up.
It was a tough choice for me and my wife as well. I have an '02ws6. When looking for my wife we debated the GTO and the GT. We decided on the GT. We figured the performance was close, so we went on looks, and chose the GT.
Being former GT owners, I think you guys are severly underestimating the aftermarket for performance parts. The mustang aftermarket is a HUGE industry. Anyone that thinks that the normal range of performance parts will not be readily available is kidding themselves.
Anyway, both cars rule! I love the GTO, and will probably end up with the redisigned '07 GTO, if they don't really screw it up.
#24
Mustang
The mustang definatley has the retro look perfected, the new GTO does not look like a retro GTO at all, so as far as the formula for producing a retro muscle car the new mustang has it and the GTO needs more original GTO retro parts to fit the retro mold, a GTO hood, hood tach, twin tips, different grill etc.
That said the new GTO beats the new mustang in everything else, the interior of the new GTO is gorgeous, thoroughly modern, well appointed, incredible seats nice shifters and awesome color combos and guage pod.
The new mustang has a nice gauge pod with adjustable colors but I have to say after seeing pictures of the rest of the interior it looks very cheap/basic compared to the GTO.
Power plants are apples and oranges, the LS1/2/6 is just a better more powerful motor than the 05's stangs the GTO is faster stock and will be faster with mods than a stang with mods measure for measure.
People will buy the mustang for it's looks, people will buy the GTO for the name and the LS1/2 performance and the interior.
That said the new GTO beats the new mustang in everything else, the interior of the new GTO is gorgeous, thoroughly modern, well appointed, incredible seats nice shifters and awesome color combos and guage pod.
The new mustang has a nice gauge pod with adjustable colors but I have to say after seeing pictures of the rest of the interior it looks very cheap/basic compared to the GTO.
Power plants are apples and oranges, the LS1/2/6 is just a better more powerful motor than the 05's stangs the GTO is faster stock and will be faster with mods than a stang with mods measure for measure.
People will buy the mustang for it's looks, people will buy the GTO for the name and the LS1/2 performance and the interior.
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Originally Posted by AMCAMX
The mustang definatley has the retro look perfected, the new GTO does not look like a retro GTO at all, so as far as the formula for producing a retro muscle car the new mustang has it and the GTO needs more original GTO retro parts to fit the retro mold, a GTO hood, hood tach, twin tips, different grill etc.
That said the new GTO beats the new mustang in everything else, the interior of the new GTO is gorgeous, thoroughly modern, well appointed, incredible seats nice shifters and awesome color combos and guage pod.
The new mustang has a nice gauge pod with adjustable colors but I have to say after seeing pictures of the rest of the interior it looks very cheap/basic compared to the GTO.
Power plants are apples and oranges, the LS1/2/6 is just a better more powerful motor than the 05's stangs the GTO is faster stock and will be faster with mods than a stang with mods measure for measure.
People will buy the mustang for it's looks, people will buy the GTO for the name and the LS1/2 performance and the interior.
That said the new GTO beats the new mustang in everything else, the interior of the new GTO is gorgeous, thoroughly modern, well appointed, incredible seats nice shifters and awesome color combos and guage pod.
The new mustang has a nice gauge pod with adjustable colors but I have to say after seeing pictures of the rest of the interior it looks very cheap/basic compared to the GTO.
Power plants are apples and oranges, the LS1/2/6 is just a better more powerful motor than the 05's stangs the GTO is faster stock and will be faster with mods than a stang with mods measure for measure.
People will buy the mustang for it's looks, people will buy the GTO for the name and the LS1/2 performance and the interior.
#26
But IMO the GTO is retro to a certain degree. Back in 64 they took a big engine and put it in a Tempest and called it a GTO, in 04, they took an LS1, put it in a Grand Prix look a like, and call it a GTO. It urks me when people praise Ford for the retro design and say GM has strayed from what made the GTO a success originally, I dont see how GM couldve stuck to their original formula anymore.
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Originally Posted by FRMRGM
But IMO the GTO is retro to a certain degree. Back in 64 they took a big engine and put it in a Tempest and called it a GTO, in 04, they took an LS1, put it in a Grand Prix look a like, and call it a GTO. It urks me when people praise Ford for the retro design and say GM has strayed from what made the GTO a success originally, I dont see how GM couldve stuck to their original formula anymore.
Pony cars, particularly the Mustang, was the opposite. It focused more heavily on styling and sportiness than anything. Something funny I heard the other day. It was an interview with carroll shelby, he was asked how the deal with Ford Motor company came about, he just laughed and said something like "well when they first approached me with the idea, I asked them what the hell am I suppose to do with a secretary's car."
I just thought that was kinda funny coming from Carroll Shelby himself.
#28
Originally Posted by GMCVT
No matter how "Huge" the aftermarket support is for the Mustang, it will still be weaker compared to the LSx engines.
I guess my point is, it will be not be difficult to get either car into the 12.5-12.7 region, which is plenty fast for her (or most anyone in a daily driver), and to us the Stang looks better.
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Originally Posted by Nox
I agree. My ls1 is hella better than any GT engine. 5.0 or 4.6. And I have had both, including two cobra's.
I guess my point is, it will be not be difficult to get either car into the 12.5-12.7 region, which is plenty fast for her (or most anyone in a daily driver), and to us the Stang looks better.
I guess my point is, it will be not be difficult to get either car into the 12.5-12.7 region, which is plenty fast for her (or most anyone in a daily driver), and to us the Stang looks better.
It may make far less of a statement than the Mustang but I prefer a fresher look as opposed to a 40 year old re-design. But thats just my opinion. There are obviously other people out there who would dis-agree(in big #'s I might add) and thats why we live in America . Thanks!
#30
Retro
I still think pontiac is not getting the retro market with this GTO, look at the mustang it looks very similar to the 69-07 fastbacks tailights, front end, grill, shape, etc etc. this is what is meant by retro.
The new GTO regardless of what the original GTO formula was(nice power in a stripped body) does not follow the retro theme by design at all, only in name GTO. There are no deatails to the body or interior that have retro characteristics at all again only in name, and in fact the car is fully loaded.
Look at the mini coopers the VW bugs the New mustang the new T-bird and they have many of the idientifying body panels that made them so popular in their day, the 04 has NONE of the design features from ANY year GTO.
The new GTO regardless of what the original GTO formula was(nice power in a stripped body) does not follow the retro theme by design at all, only in name GTO. There are no deatails to the body or interior that have retro characteristics at all again only in name, and in fact the car is fully loaded.
Look at the mini coopers the VW bugs the New mustang the new T-bird and they have many of the idientifying body panels that made them so popular in their day, the 04 has NONE of the design features from ANY year GTO.
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Originally Posted by AMCAMX
I still think pontiac is not getting the retro market with this GTO, look at the mustang it looks very similar to the 69-07 fastbacks tailights, front end, grill, shape, etc etc. this is what is meant by retro.
The new GTO regardless of what the original GTO formula was(nice power in a stripped body) does not follow the retro theme by design at all, only in name GTO. There are no deatails to the body or interior that have retro characteristics at all again only in name, and in fact the car is fully loaded.
Look at the mini coopers the VW bugs the New mustang the new T-bird and they have many of the idientifying body panels that made them so popular in their day, the 04 has NONE of the design features from ANY year GTO.
The new GTO regardless of what the original GTO formula was(nice power in a stripped body) does not follow the retro theme by design at all, only in name GTO. There are no deatails to the body or interior that have retro characteristics at all again only in name, and in fact the car is fully loaded.
Look at the mini coopers the VW bugs the New mustang the new T-bird and they have many of the idientifying body panels that made them so popular in their day, the 04 has NONE of the design features from ANY year GTO.
#32
retro
Originally Posted by GMCVT
Your right, there not and according to Bob Lutz and others at GM there not going too either. Personally I agree with them. In my opinion, I thought Ford got the "retro" theme right when they did the mach1. It carried a completely modern look, while incoporating strong retro. Quite different from the 05 Mustang.
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Originally Posted by AMCAMX
Look at the mini coopers the VW bugs the New mustang the new T-bird and they have many of the idientifying body panels that made them so popular in their day, the 04 has NONE of the design features from ANY year GTO.
You know if GM had to completely rebody the Monaro, we simply would not have gotten a GTO at all. Not to mention the sales of all the full blown retro remakes waned after the first year.
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Ok I am going to chim ein my .02 here. I just read the other day about the 05 Stang. with it's much engine improvement, it puts out 300hp. Now correct me if I am wrong here gentlemen, I believe that the GTo is still lofting 350hp.
Do to the weight difference, they do run the quarter close together, But then again, Car and Driver have been known to make mistakes (Once in a while).
I like the new look and have no doubts in 6 months there is going to be alot of them running around.
But it really has been (And history will show) cheaper to build up a Chevy/GM motor than is to build up a Ford. Why? I have not the slightest idea, it just is.
GTO has my vote, but I am gonaa test drive the **** out of both of them!
Peace from Iraq....
Do to the weight difference, they do run the quarter close together, But then again, Car and Driver have been known to make mistakes (Once in a while).
I like the new look and have no doubts in 6 months there is going to be alot of them running around.
But it really has been (And history will show) cheaper to build up a Chevy/GM motor than is to build up a Ford. Why? I have not the slightest idea, it just is.
GTO has my vote, but I am gonaa test drive the **** out of both of them!
Peace from Iraq....
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The 05 GTO's get the LS2 straight out of the C6 Corvette with its full 400hp/400tq. C&D ran low 13's at 107mph but i've heard talk about high 12's at closer to 110mph. Basicly, C5 performance, BMW luxury, German built quality all with a Pontiac price tag. Cant go wrong if you ask me!
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[QUOTE=00TAProject]Ok I am going to chim ein my .02 here. I just read the other day about the 05 Stang. with it's much engine improvement, it puts out 300hp. Now correct me if I am wrong here gentlemen, I believe that the GTo is still lofting 350hp.
Do to the weight difference, they do run the quarter close together, But then again, Car and Driver have been known to make mistakes (Once in a while).
I like the new look and have no doubts in 6 months there is going to be alot of them running around.
But it really has been (And history will show) cheaper to build up a Chevy/GM motor than is to build up a Ford. Why? I have not the slightest idea, it just is.
GTO has my vote, but I am gonaa test drive the **** out of both of them!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Until several years into the 5.0, the biggest challenge for Ford small blocks was the design of there factory heads and limited engine sizes. GM on the other hand has made numerous performance engines (variety of ci) and were equipped with decent cylinder heads. Although I'm not as familiar with 1st gen. engines as I should be, I know that there were several good flowing cylinder heads from the factory that were widely available. Ford on the other hand, was quite the opposite. There were a couple of decent heads but they weren't anywhere near as easily available as their GM couterparts. Soo, you would have to pay big bucks to get a race engine builder to seriously work over the best Ford castings you could find. Plus, again, until the 5.0 the aftermarket was alot stronger for the GM cars than it was for Ford. GM spent alot of time and money investing in performance in the 60's and early 70's and it paid off for many decades to come. The best Cylinder heads Ford offered on the late model pushrod Mustangs was the GT40's and even though they were a decent cylinder head, if you look at the stock flow rates, they are still fairly weak. The reason modular Mustangs cost so much is because of there complicated overhead cam arrangement. The 96-98 2v stangs were pathetic. Mainly because of very poor cylinder head design. The DOHC Cobra power plants were really sweet, but they are limited N/A because of there CI.
Plus in a DOHC arrangement, when you have the heads gone through you have 32valves instead of 16. You have 4 cams to replace instead of 1. The 4.6 is limited in its ability to grow CI wise unlike the LSx engine, they are more difficult to package because they are larger than the Pushrod engines and I believe they also weigh more than the LSx engines. This could go on but maybe this will help shed some light on that for ya!
Do to the weight difference, they do run the quarter close together, But then again, Car and Driver have been known to make mistakes (Once in a while).
I like the new look and have no doubts in 6 months there is going to be alot of them running around.
But it really has been (And history will show) cheaper to build up a Chevy/GM motor than is to build up a Ford. Why? I have not the slightest idea, it just is.
GTO has my vote, but I am gonaa test drive the **** out of both of them!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Until several years into the 5.0, the biggest challenge for Ford small blocks was the design of there factory heads and limited engine sizes. GM on the other hand has made numerous performance engines (variety of ci) and were equipped with decent cylinder heads. Although I'm not as familiar with 1st gen. engines as I should be, I know that there were several good flowing cylinder heads from the factory that were widely available. Ford on the other hand, was quite the opposite. There were a couple of decent heads but they weren't anywhere near as easily available as their GM couterparts. Soo, you would have to pay big bucks to get a race engine builder to seriously work over the best Ford castings you could find. Plus, again, until the 5.0 the aftermarket was alot stronger for the GM cars than it was for Ford. GM spent alot of time and money investing in performance in the 60's and early 70's and it paid off for many decades to come. The best Cylinder heads Ford offered on the late model pushrod Mustangs was the GT40's and even though they were a decent cylinder head, if you look at the stock flow rates, they are still fairly weak. The reason modular Mustangs cost so much is because of there complicated overhead cam arrangement. The 96-98 2v stangs were pathetic. Mainly because of very poor cylinder head design. The DOHC Cobra power plants were really sweet, but they are limited N/A because of there CI.
Plus in a DOHC arrangement, when you have the heads gone through you have 32valves instead of 16. You have 4 cams to replace instead of 1. The 4.6 is limited in its ability to grow CI wise unlike the LSx engine, they are more difficult to package because they are larger than the Pushrod engines and I believe they also weigh more than the LSx engines. This could go on but maybe this will help shed some light on that for ya!
#39
Great posts without a bunch of flame throwing! To me and I think alot of other people it just comes down to weather or not you can live with/enjoy the looks of the GTO. I could'nt, I bought a used Vette (great values right now). I personally would love to see a retro version of the GTO, I would buy one if it looked half as good as the 05 Stang and I think a hell of alot of other people would too, the LS2 would just be icing on the cake!
Matt
Matt
#40
I would buy one if it looked half as good as the 05 Stang and I think a hell of alot of other people would too, the LS2 would just be icing on the cake!
Matt
Matt