EchoMirage

iTrader: (3)

if your car seems to stop better, it was probably because your old brakes/rotors needed to be replaced, and the new full thickness pad and rotor simply brought back stock braking power.

i have C5 brakes up front, brembo blanks and hawk HP+ for track use. my local track is a very tight course, with only one straight that might get to 100ish, so the HP+ are adequate for that. if you do go to VIR, invest in blanks and a dedicated race pad, like hawk blue or black, or get carbotechs.

read up on FRRAX.com for more info.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

It would be an interesting experiment. And you peaked my curiosity ...

So, I did a Google search on "Miata at VIR" and "Camaro at VIR", picked a couple random in-car vids and timed a random flying lap from each video.

The Miata ran about a 2:27 in traffic and the Camaro ran a 2:19 with clear track.

I don't know the prep level of either car nor do I know the experience level of either driver. But both drivers appeared to be hiiting the same marks.

tavi_ws6

iTrader: (1)

definatly not enough brakes for a road course, i had the same as you, after about 3 laps on autobahns south course mine were completely faded, i now run carbotechs

silverbeast

iTrader: (16)

thanks for the advice on the brakes and your opinions . I have already started checking into what i need to do so i can put my car on the track. It has sparked my interest as well and i hope to find out how i do on a road course.

STRIPSTAR

iTrader: (4)

if the miata has race rubber and you have street tires you may be in trouble. Im no miata fan but have been on track with the race versions and they move out. The newer miatas are faster now too aren't they? Watch the mx5 miata cup race from VIR if you want to see their potential.

STRIPSTAR

iTrader: (4)

well still a new one says 167 hp-pretty weak but i bet it beats a sn95 mustang on most courses.

TrackZ28'S

Do not get mad if he passes you.There are a lot of turns and elevation changes that are gonna slow you down more than the miata.Good luck,Get rid of those brakes.Think of drilled and or slotted rotors as cheese graders for brakes

Cap'n Pete

iTrader: (2)

Just looking at the PICTURE posted above of VIR, it looks like the straights are long enough that you can make up for sluggish handling with a lot more power.

Even on tighter tracks, I haven't lost to Miatas any time recently. I can't remember how I compared in my first year, when my car was stock, and I was a newbie ... times were probably pretty close.

However, on a POWER track, and especially the fact that you have 315 tires (on all 4 corners?) then you'll have a decent amount of grip (and GY DS3's are relatively sticky for street rubber).

However, a little "anecdote" to show you how an under-powered car CAN keep up with an over-powered car:

Last Friday I ran a lapping day at Mosport International Raceway (track map: http://www.mosport.com/trackmap.htm). I was running my '93 Z28, with full coil-over suspension, double adjustable Konis, big bars, race pads, Hoosier tires, etc., etc. It's a bone-stock LT1, but running headers, so making what, ~300 HP maybe??

There was a guy there with a Ford GT (the exotic "supercar" thing) with engine work done. He said the car was making around ~780 HP!!

If you look at the track map and see Corner 5C, that's the start of the back straight, which ends at Corner 8. I was on the GT's tail at the start of the straight, and he disappeared like I was standing still ... it was unbelievable!! (keep in mind, he has 480 HP MORE than I have!!!). But for several laps in a row, I would catch up to him entering into Corner 5A ... and NO, I'm not kidding. His car was only running street tires, but they are super wide, and I think they were the GY "Supercar" tires (which are quite sticky actually ... and have very stiff sidewalls).

My point is, Mosport is a power track, and yet through the 7 remaining corners of the track, I was able to make up so much time, I could catch a car with 780 HP, with my 300 HP car . I could NOT get PAST him, but I could CATCH him. Realistically though, our lap times were probably almost identical.

So, could a STOCK Miata, driven by a PROFESSIONAL beat your Camaro, driven by YOU, with the setup it has?? It all depends, but quite possibly! Perhaps if you were both on the track at the same time, you might be able to block him and not let him by, but run independently, and he may be able to post faster lap times than you. Not saying it WOULD happen, but it COULD .

Now, if you actually get some experience out there, slap stickier tires on your car, and run a little more aggressive pad (Hawk Blues, or HT10's at least ... in the FRONT ONLY) then I think a stock Miata would be f'd .

Cap'n Pete

iTrader: (2)

FWIW, I've been running slotted rotors for a couple years with no problems. They have been Powerslot rotors, and I've run both Hawk Blues and HT14's with them. The rotors have held up fine, and the braking has been excellent .

ChucksZ06

iTrader: (9)

If you have really good aftermarket brakes and really good race pads you will beat him bad on that particular track layout because of the long straights. On a tight track you would be in big trouble. Also remember with the brakes you have now you will be carrying a lot of speed into the corners so you will lose your braking ability after a few hot laps. Fast heavy cars just destroy brakes...it is almost impossible to get enough brake under a heavy car which has a lot of power. Your fluid will boil no matter how good it is. Been their done that with a 2900 lb z06 with a lot better brakes than you have now. I hate Miata's cause they beat vettes at autocrosses all the time. Chuck

Cap'n Pete

iTrader: (2)

Auto-X is a whole different ball game . That's all about LIGHT and NIMBLE! Miatas seem to excel at auto-x.

kukri

iTrader: (9)

Agree 100%


OP, I went to VIR first time on same exact brakes you have now (same Hawk pads)... horrible brake failure. I was getting to 150 mph twice a lap and when I got to know the track brakes faded after 1 FULL LAP, this is also on RX7 4 piston brakes. You have to get race pads or you won't be able to use the brakes, which are as important as the motor and tires on the racetrack.

00 Trans Ram

iTrader: (5)

If you want an idea of how much power and braking make a difference, check out these vids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdWhA...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXMpv...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcwy2...eature=related

Almost the same cars, with the same suspensions, on similar tires. But, he has 50+ more hp. However, I have better brakes (except where I get too confident and stuff it up the inside like a n00b). You can see that he sometimes puts 10 carlengths on me during the 1/3 mile straight. But, I'm back in his trunk after only 2 turns.

All those things that make small 1/10th second differences on the street and autox (pads, tires, suspension, hp/tq, etc.) get magnified. If you mess up an apex while following a guy, he's gonna put 5 cars on you in the next 10 seconds.

BTW, you'd be surprised at how fast a good driver can make a car go. We have 2 guys that I know of that have showed up at my local track (No Problem Raceway) in GT3 Cup cars. One of them, who is REALLY good, runs 1:16s consistently. Then, we had a guy show up and he ran back-to-back 12 second laps! Same car, but 4 seconds faster. And, it's not like cutting 4 seconds off a Ford Festiva - these are the "fast" seconds. The ones that would cost me $100k to cut off.

A pro driver in a stock Miata will make some of those corners look like straightaways. He'll toss it and make it stick, when you would swear it's gonna fly off the concrete.

That said, if all the chips are down, I'm betting on your car.

silverbeast

iTrader: (16)

thanks for the videos and i am looking forward to giving the road course a try. And i think it will be fun to say the least. Oh and your car sounds great.

silverbeast

iTrader: (16)

thanks for the info. I will look into a better pad before i go out.

mesospeedy

iTrader: (8)

Not trying to be a dick, but all you road race gurus seem to swear that slotted and drilled rotors are the worst thing you can add to a brake setup. So why is it that in all the multitude of race cars I've seen in my lifetime in all different types of oval and road course racing, every f**kin' one had some sort of slot or cross-drilling in the rotors? Again, I'm not trying to **** people off, but I would like to know why I shouldn't use them (which I do, and with no problems so far) if all these multi million dollar race teams do?

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Cause they only need to last a few hundred miles and then the multi-million dollar teams discard them and install muilt-thousand dollar replacements.

apples and oranges

dragonrage

If you buy cross-drilled rotors and push them, they WILL crack. DO NOT get cross-drilled. If you want slotted rotors, fine. AVOID cross-drilling.

http://www.google.com/search?q=cross...+rotor+cracked

EchoMirage

iTrader: (3)

every one? no. not at all. look through the suspension and brake section. someone posted up a half dozen pics of pure, all-out race cars. not one of them had holes or slots. this includes NASCAR, ALMS, GP, SCCA, etc. etc. etc.

mesospeedy

iTrader: (8)

I'm sure some of them don't use them, everyone has there own preferrances. I'm just saying all that I have seen in the 15+ years I have been working around race cars (not just a random fan with a pit pass) all have used them. My point was that alot of people act like they provide a disadvantage in braking performance, that is what I wanted to find out. If they don't stop as well as blanks, why are they used by anybody? Even alot of high end street cars come stock with drilled and/or slotted rotors. I seriously want to know if someone could give me facts (or a link if its easier) because I'm in the market for a new setup and I don't want junk on my car! As far as cracks, do they completely break apart, or are they just fine cracks like all rotors tend to get with age?