LS1 Oiling Problems
LS1 Oiling Problems I am curious why Lsx engines have such large problems with oiling under extreme cornering forces (I hear left hand sweepers with large slicks are the worst) And I know the engine was not designed for such high cornering forces from the factory.. So please dont say its deficient because it wasnt designed for that duty, I know that already.
Obviously lots of factory setups have problems with the oil pickup becoming uncovered and thats a recipe for disaster. Thats easily fixed though thankfully because of Improved Racings Baffle. With that baffle I cant imagine that pickup coming uncovered.
Then I hear that even if the oil pickup is covered by the baffle oil still pools in the top end and drainback isnt sufficient.
So people drill out the lifter trays but even then they have problems.. but why?
I am asking because I am looking at building a tube frame chassis with an Ls1 as the powerplant and on DOT tires these things are hitting 1.2G in the corners sustained and almost 2G with slicks and little to no aero, with aero who knows what they can do and I am guessing Dry sump is needed but some of these cars are running production engines like the stock miata engine and not having problems... so I'm a little lost where the deficiency lies with the Ls1 oiling system or reall any wet sump setup if designed correctly, or modified.
Thanks guys
Obviously lots of factory setups have problems with the oil pickup becoming uncovered and thats a recipe for disaster. Thats easily fixed though thankfully because of Improved Racings Baffle. With that baffle I cant imagine that pickup coming uncovered.
Then I hear that even if the oil pickup is covered by the baffle oil still pools in the top end and drainback isnt sufficient.
So people drill out the lifter trays but even then they have problems.. but why?
I am asking because I am looking at building a tube frame chassis with an Ls1 as the powerplant and on DOT tires these things are hitting 1.2G in the corners sustained and almost 2G with slicks and little to no aero, with aero who knows what they can do and I am guessing Dry sump is needed but some of these cars are running production engines like the stock miata engine and not having problems... so I'm a little lost where the deficiency lies with the Ls1 oiling system or reall any wet sump setup if designed correctly, or modified.
Thanks guys
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Philly
As to the baffle:
I can only speak from my limited experience as a first year owner of a stroked 427 LS2 in an E36 M3 platform TRACK only car running slicks and full aero package. More background...
I just converted from wet sump to dry sump with one event under my belt with the dry sump configuration. I ran the wet sump setup at about 10 events before the conversion. The wet sump setup also included an Accusump oil accumulator.
--> The Improved Racing Baffle doesn't work well enough on a track only car with racing slicks and high g-forces... regardless of sweeping left handers or not, in my opinion. It probably helped but didn't solve the underlying issue in my case.
Couple of caveats:The previous owner of this car never had a serious oil pressure issues with this exact same combo in Auto Crosses and some road course work. They ran it one quart over religiously as I used to do.
The LS2 with the LS1 pan and accusump installed (my combo) would still drop oil pressure to 20 -25 psi in any high g turn at the tracks I ran: VIR, NJMP, Summit and Watkins Glen. Watkins was probably the least affected but it was still present.
I venture to say that without the Baffle and Accusump, it might have been worse but that was my experience.
As to the oil pooling in the heads/drainback:
I've heard about this issue as well and I also heard that the oil that does drain splatters right on the spinning crankshaft which is bad for windage if true. I don't know how true this is without looking at a disassembled engine so YMMV.
In my case, going from a wet sump/accusump to a straight dry sump/bigger oil cooler set up; no changes to the heads drain path, my oil pressure problems went away. Note: I only have one event under my belt with the new setup but it was a NIGHT and DAY difference at the track. 35 to 90 psi everywhere regardless of g-force vs. 20 to 45 psi. I'm still using the same Melling 10296 oil pump before/after the sump conversion too!
The oil drain back may still be an issue but I'll need to more track time to see how it manifests itself if at all. So far, I'm tickled with the new setup that making any other changes doesn't seem necessary.
As to the tube frame chassis build with an LSx:
Unless you're running the LS6 with batwing pan, and I know several racers that are, successfully (in C5s), budget for a dry sump setup. With the combo you're discussing almost any car is going to need it as does the Z06 etc. That's my opinion anyway.
John
I can only speak from my limited experience as a first year owner of a stroked 427 LS2 in an E36 M3 platform TRACK only car running slicks and full aero package. More background...
I just converted from wet sump to dry sump with one event under my belt with the dry sump configuration. I ran the wet sump setup at about 10 events before the conversion. The wet sump setup also included an Accusump oil accumulator.
--> The Improved Racing Baffle doesn't work well enough on a track only car with racing slicks and high g-forces... regardless of sweeping left handers or not, in my opinion. It probably helped but didn't solve the underlying issue in my case.
Couple of caveats:The previous owner of this car never had a serious oil pressure issues with this exact same combo in Auto Crosses and some road course work. They ran it one quart over religiously as I used to do.
The LS2 with the LS1 pan and accusump installed (my combo) would still drop oil pressure to 20 -25 psi in any high g turn at the tracks I ran: VIR, NJMP, Summit and Watkins Glen. Watkins was probably the least affected but it was still present.
I venture to say that without the Baffle and Accusump, it might have been worse but that was my experience.
As to the oil pooling in the heads/drainback:
I've heard about this issue as well and I also heard that the oil that does drain splatters right on the spinning crankshaft which is bad for windage if true. I don't know how true this is without looking at a disassembled engine so YMMV.
In my case, going from a wet sump/accusump to a straight dry sump/bigger oil cooler set up; no changes to the heads drain path, my oil pressure problems went away. Note: I only have one event under my belt with the new setup but it was a NIGHT and DAY difference at the track. 35 to 90 psi everywhere regardless of g-force vs. 20 to 45 psi. I'm still using the same Melling 10296 oil pump before/after the sump conversion too!
The oil drain back may still be an issue but I'll need to more track time to see how it manifests itself if at all. So far, I'm tickled with the new setup that making any other changes doesn't seem necessary.
As to the tube frame chassis build with an LSx:
Unless you're running the LS6 with batwing pan, and I know several racers that are, successfully (in C5s), budget for a dry sump setup. With the combo you're discussing almost any car is going to need it as does the Z06 etc. That's my opinion anyway.
John
On The Tree
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 179
Likes: 7
From: Braking Point, Turn In, Apex, Exit - Repeat
If you run a crate LS6 you should be fine, the numbers you mention are pretty typical for any of the C5's in T1. Those guys pound the crap out of there cars and they don't need a dry sump. If you are thinking about a LS2 or LS3 then do the dry sump. The LS6 crate engines with the Corvette bat wing pan just seem to work, if you look at NASA TTA/PTA cars or the C5's in T1 they prove this time and time again.
Just lost my job so now theres no big rush to get this info as the project is obviously now going to be greatly delayed but I saw this on ebay and figured I'd run it by you guys.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/E485-...Q5fCarQ5fParts
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/E485-...Q5fCarQ5fParts
