More LS1 miata track video - Infineon
02-14-2011, 03:48 PM
#1
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More LS1 miata track video - Infineon Hey gang,
I finally got past some extremely cooling issues and raced the car yesterday! Unfortunately, I was confused about how much fuel I had in the car and I ran out of gas about 3/4 of the way through the race.
Here's an interesting view from the splitter:
http://vimeo.com/19916549
Here's the more traditional in-car view:
http://vimeo.com/19914435
Enjoy.
I finally got past some extremely cooling issues and raced the car yesterday! Unfortunately, I was confused about how much fuel I had in the car and I ran out of gas about 3/4 of the way through the race.
Here's an interesting view from the splitter:
http://vimeo.com/19916549
Here's the more traditional in-car view:
http://vimeo.com/19914435
Enjoy.
02-16-2011, 02:56 PM
#3
Great video! Aside from that pesky Porsche I'd say you gobbled up most cars easily.
What size tires are you running front/rear?
What differential/gears? Diff cooler?
Total weight with driver?
Our LS1/FD's weigh around 2800lbs with full interior and a/c full tank of fuel. Gutted they can be brought down to around 2550lbs with full cage.
What size tires are you running front/rear?
What differential/gears? Diff cooler?
Total weight with driver?
Our LS1/FD's weigh around 2800lbs with full interior and a/c full tank of fuel. Gutted they can be brought down to around 2550lbs with full cage.
02-16-2011, 03:10 PM
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225's all the way around - Hankook C51's
Ford 8.8 diff with 3.55 gears and a clutch pack LSD (building a 3.23 soon)
No diff cooler. Although I probably should throw a thermocouple on there and see what sort of temps I'm getting while on track.
Total weight with driver is 2650. We built a heavy-duty cage and did a fair amount of re-inforcing of the frame rails. I didn't want the car to twist apart with repeated track use and 300+ ft-lbs
I think an LSx FD might be my next project. I hope my wife doesn't see this...
Ford 8.8 diff with 3.55 gears and a clutch pack LSD (building a 3.23 soon)
No diff cooler. Although I probably should throw a thermocouple on there and see what sort of temps I'm getting while on track.
Total weight with driver is 2650. We built a heavy-duty cage and did a fair amount of re-inforcing of the frame rails. I didn't want the car to twist apart with repeated track use and 300+ ft-lbs
I think an LSx FD might be my next project. I hope my wife doesn't see this...
02-16-2011, 05:35 PM
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Great driving Dean, how far back was Bill B in that race? I was hoping to make that, but couldn't get the car into the shop early enough and now don't have any time to test my new stuff before next weekend at WSIR. Bill says ST2 is growing up here though, can't wait to make it out with you guys soon! We have ~12 T1 cars now!
When's your next weekend/where?
When's your next weekend/where?
02-16-2011, 07:29 PM
#6
Wasn't this supposed to be the wife's race car? Based on your lines, looked as though maybe she was the driver (no disrespect intentended). You won't like the 3.23's. If anything, I'd step up to 3.90's & set the car up for wider tires if spec's allow.
02-16-2011, 08:20 PM
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Ouch! Not sure how to interpret that any other way than as disrespect, but I have to agree that it isn't my best driving. 
With the 3.55, second is too low to use and I'm running out of fourth at inopportune points on the track. Going to 3.90 would force me to use sixth at the end of the straights.
With the 3.55, second is too low to use and I'm running out of fourth at inopportune points on the track. Going to 3.90 would force me to use sixth at the end of the straights.
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02-16-2011, 09:43 PM
#8
Ouch! Not sure how to interpret that any other way than as disrespect, but I have to agree that it isn't my best driving.
With the 3.55, second is too low to use and I'm running out of fourth at inopportune points on the track. Going to 3.90 would force me to use sixth at the end of the straights.
With the 3.55, second is too low to use and I'm running out of fourth at inopportune points on the track. Going to 3.90 would force me to use sixth at the end of the straights.
Sorry about that. I really didn't mean it that way. Not being there, there's really no way for me to properly view the reasons for the lines. Thought that it may have been possbile that someone else were driving. Really not meant as an insult. Ok, then maybe a 3.73. Just don't go down to a 3.23, it will kill your acceleration. Also, maybe while going to a wider tire, you could play around with larger tire diameters. This can also help w/ the gearing issues.
BTW, I run r compound 265's on the rear & 245's front. You'll have to change the opening of the rear wheel well & remove some inner metal from the passenger side inner well, but, they fit nicely & will make a world of difference. May need a spacer in the front depending on your set up.
02-16-2011, 11:27 PM
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No worries, brother! Infineon has several connected turns where you have to compromise the first to set up properly for the second. That, combined with the elevation changes and the blind rises make it a tricky track.
I'm going to move to 275/35 Hoosiers once I get the fenders stretched appropriately. I'm trying to avoid going to flares for aero reasons. Acceleration is a function of the overall gearing - tranny and rear-end. So if I can use second gear and the 3.23 in some turns or 3rd gear with the 3.55 or 3.73, what's the difference? Maybe I just don't understand how gearing works, as I don't have much experience trying different gear ratios. But I do know that you have to match them to the track, and right now, the gears are too short for Infineon and Thunderhill, the tracks where this car will spend about 90% of it's time.
I'm going to move to 275/35 Hoosiers once I get the fenders stretched appropriately. I'm trying to avoid going to flares for aero reasons. Acceleration is a function of the overall gearing - tranny and rear-end. So if I can use second gear and the 3.23 in some turns or 3rd gear with the 3.55 or 3.73, what's the difference? Maybe I just don't understand how gearing works, as I don't have much experience trying different gear ratios. But I do know that you have to match them to the track, and right now, the gears are too short for Infineon and Thunderhill, the tracks where this car will spend about 90% of it's time.
02-17-2011, 12:03 AM
#10
You won't have to stretch the fenders, you can just cut the quarter panels where the tire will rub. You'll need front spacers in order to eliminate the under steer that wider rears will cause. Guess you'll have to play around w/ the gearing. You're gonna get killed on starts & re-starts while using 3.23's. So, it won't matter that they are correct for @ speed driving.
02-17-2011, 08:39 AM
#11
Sorry for the double post.
The way to be more efficient w/ gearing is to install a cam that makes power up to 7K-7200 RPM ish w/ dual springs to stabilize the valvetrain. Then, raise the rev limiter & fuel shut off. This will allow you to keep the 3.55 or move to a 3.73 or 3.90 without the extra shift into 6th that you are trying to avoid. Will also improve the acceleration required to win starts & re-starts.
The way to be more efficient w/ gearing is to install a cam that makes power up to 7K-7200 RPM ish w/ dual springs to stabilize the valvetrain. Then, raise the rev limiter & fuel shut off. This will allow you to keep the 3.55 or move to a 3.73 or 3.90 without the extra shift into 6th that you are trying to avoid. Will also improve the acceleration required to win starts & re-starts.
02-17-2011, 12:40 PM
#12
Looks like you guys have the gearing in good perspective; I've generally found that fewer gear shifts AND the appropriate gear range for (most) of the corners will get you the fastest laps, IMO. Having the wrong gear (being between gears) for crucial corners makes for a long day.
Hey SIK02SS, what's going on @ WSIR next weekend (2/19 & 2/20)? Weather may be doubtfull,; are you there both days?
Andy1
Hey SIK02SS, what's going on @ WSIR next weekend (2/19 & 2/20)? Weather may be doubtfull,; are you there both days?
Andy1
02-17-2011, 12:51 PM
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Did a little math...
Max MPH
T56 assuming stock gearing, 22.5" diameter tire and 6000rpms
ratio 3.9 3.74 3.55 3.23
1st 2.66 39 40 43 47
2nd 1.78 58 60 64 70
3rd 1.3 79 83 87 96
4th 1 103 107 113 124
5th 0.74 139 145 153 168
I still think the 3.23 is going to be the best option for me since I spend most of my time in the 65 -120 range. 3.74's make 2nd gear completely unusable on the track and even for starts, since rolling starts [are supposed to] happen around 55-60 mph.
I'd also like to avoid the overdrive gears as much as possible for tranny reliability. That means I want to live in 2-3-4, which the 3.23 gives me.
I don't want to optimize for the starts, since that's about 10 seconds of a 30 minute race. We rarely have restarts, and if we do, they're at a much higher rolling speed.
I here you on gaining headroom with higher redline, but I'm in a Hp/Weight limited class, and having a higher rev limit will alter my HP/torque curve in a such a way as to make it undesirable. There are a lot of factors at play, here...
As Andy said, having to shift at a critical point on the track can erase all sorts of other benefits of a given gear set.
I've already got all the parts to build a spare rear end with 3.23's, so I'm going to give it a try since on paper it looks right.
Also, my race tire choices are limited. The only practical choices are either the 225's I'm on or the 275/35 Hoosiers, which I'm moving to on all four corners.
Next event is March 6th (speedventures) at Infineon, then back to Infineon for the 2nd NASA event of the year mid March.
Cheers,
Dean
Max MPH
T56 assuming stock gearing, 22.5" diameter tire and 6000rpms
ratio 3.9 3.74 3.55 3.23
1st 2.66 39 40 43 47
2nd 1.78 58 60 64 70
3rd 1.3 79 83 87 96
4th 1 103 107 113 124
5th 0.74 139 145 153 168
I still think the 3.23 is going to be the best option for me since I spend most of my time in the 65 -120 range. 3.74's make 2nd gear completely unusable on the track and even for starts, since rolling starts [are supposed to] happen around 55-60 mph.
I'd also like to avoid the overdrive gears as much as possible for tranny reliability. That means I want to live in 2-3-4, which the 3.23 gives me.
I don't want to optimize for the starts, since that's about 10 seconds of a 30 minute race. We rarely have restarts, and if we do, they're at a much higher rolling speed.
I here you on gaining headroom with higher redline, but I'm in a Hp/Weight limited class, and having a higher rev limit will alter my HP/torque curve in a such a way as to make it undesirable. There are a lot of factors at play, here...
As Andy said, having to shift at a critical point on the track can erase all sorts of other benefits of a given gear set.
I've already got all the parts to build a spare rear end with 3.23's, so I'm going to give it a try since on paper it looks right.
Also, my race tire choices are limited. The only practical choices are either the 225's I'm on or the 275/35 Hoosiers, which I'm moving to on all four corners.
Next event is March 6th (speedventures) at Infineon, then back to Infineon for the 2nd NASA event of the year mid March.
Cheers,
Dean
02-17-2011, 07:52 PM
#14
Is your rear tire truly 22.5" tall? That his crazy short. What redline do you typically run and/or shift points.....
I would put some rod bolts in the motor if you haven't already and select a cam as mentioned that will make power up to 7K (with springs etc). The 3.55's seem like they should work well especially in that light car.
A stock FD with custom wheels and stock fenders (rolled) can run 18x10.5 front 285/30/18 and 18x11 rear 315/30/18. With flares you can run a 18x12 front and 18x13 out back. They are kind of like "big" Miatas
Here is another good gear ratio calculator:
http://f-body.org/gears/
I have 3.73 gears (Cobra), 25.9" rear tire (335/30/18), and 7200rpm redline. Should do 145mph in 4th which is fine aside from Thunderhill where you need to go into 5th down the long straight. The car should be around 4.5lbs/hp (flywheel).
Infineon is a tough track with few spots for errors. If you do make one... plan on going into the cement wall and seriously mangling if not destroying your car. The S's in the back look easy... they aren't and I've seen many cars go off track there. The carousel is also another tricky one. Lots of blind corners and off camber stuff. One of the toughest tracks in the country.
I would put some rod bolts in the motor if you haven't already and select a cam as mentioned that will make power up to 7K (with springs etc). The 3.55's seem like they should work well especially in that light car.
A stock FD with custom wheels and stock fenders (rolled) can run 18x10.5 front 285/30/18 and 18x11 rear 315/30/18. With flares you can run a 18x12 front and 18x13 out back. They are kind of like "big" Miatas
Here is another good gear ratio calculator:
http://f-body.org/gears/
I have 3.73 gears (Cobra), 25.9" rear tire (335/30/18), and 7200rpm redline. Should do 145mph in 4th which is fine aside from Thunderhill where you need to go into 5th down the long straight. The car should be around 4.5lbs/hp (flywheel).
Infineon is a tough track with few spots for errors. If you do make one... plan on going into the cement wall and seriously mangling if not destroying your car. The S's in the back look easy... they aren't and I've seen many cars go off track there. The carousel is also another tricky one. Lots of blind corners and off camber stuff. One of the toughest tracks in the country.
02-17-2011, 10:48 PM
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It really is close to 22.5, might be just slightly larger. It's a15" wheel, so I wouldn't expect anything over 23.
I shift at 6000. I an building the car to be ST2 legal so that I can run E0 for enduros. It's a much about stretching fuel and reliability a it is about speed...
I shift at 6000. I an building the car to be ST2 legal so that I can run E0 for enduros. It's a much about stretching fuel and reliability a it is about speed...
02-18-2011, 10:38 AM
#16
dfast, This was more along my lines of thinking when I noted 3.73-3.90's & up to 7-7.2K. Really was not thinking you were anywhere near a 22.5" tire diameter. I understand now why you want to go less than 3.55. Although, when you go 275 those 3.55's may start looking good compared to the 3.23's (maybe, maybe not). Finally, IME a 265/45 will treat you better than the stiffer 275/35.
Back to the wife comment. In your initial build thread, it was stated that the car was being built for your wife as the driver. So, that's where my thinking was regarding the driver comment earlier.
02-18-2011, 11:02 AM
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If there was a proper 265/45-15 road race tire, I'd be right there with you. Unfortunately, the tires available in 15" are extremely limited. The 275/35 Hoosier R6 will be a fantastic tire for a car like mine - several other high HP miatas have proven this. Hoosier's website says the diameter of that tire is 23". The 22.5" I used is from my spec miata. I imagine the 225 Hankook I'm using now is closer to 23" - I'll have to measure this weekend.
Regarding the wife stuff - don't worry about it. I do remember posting a picture of her sitting on the car and saying something to that effect!
Cheers,
Dean
Regarding the wife stuff - don't worry about it.
I do remember posting a picture of her sitting on the car and saying something to that effect!Cheers,
Dean
02-18-2011, 03:08 PM
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Looks like you guys have the gearing in good perspective; I've generally found that fewer gear shifts AND the appropriate gear range for (most) of the corners will get you the fastest laps, IMO. Having the wrong gear (being between gears) for crucial corners makes for a long day.
Hey SIK02SS, what's going on @ WSIR next weekend (2/19 & 2/20)? Weather may be doubtfull,; are you there both days?
Andy1
Hey SIK02SS, what's going on @ WSIR next weekend (2/19 & 2/20)? Weather may be doubtfull,; are you there both days?
Andy1
02-18-2011, 03:28 PM
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I'll probably drop by on the 5th - I only live about 20 minutes from Infineon. The 6th is the official "Miata Challenge" day, so I'm definitely running Sunday, not Saturday.
I was going to make a snide comment about how embarrassing Corvette owners has gotten old, but I'll refrain. Whoops, too late!! ;-)
I was going to make a snide comment about how embarrassing Corvette owners has gotten old, but I'll refrain. Whoops, too late!! ;-)
02-18-2011, 05:26 PM
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Just look for the black and yellow if you come by. Didn't know that little monster was eligible in the Miata Challenge 
That's okay, at least the Corvettes can finish the race!
can't tell you how many times I've finished on reserve fuel limping in after a race, and our pickup is on the right side, so coming out of right hand corners the motor starts cutting out (you know, most of infineon..ya done it)
. my fuel calculations suck 
That's okay, at least the Corvettes can finish the race!
can't tell you how many times I've finished on reserve fuel limping in after a race, and our pickup is on the right side, so coming out of right hand corners the motor starts cutting out (you know, most of infineon..ya done it)
. my fuel calculations suck