EchoMirage

iTrader: (3)

better for cooling??? this is the first ive ever heard of that. installing a baffle does not make your motor run hotter. you put it in, and forget about it. you also dont keep it overfilled all the time. its supposed to be just for the time at the track, thats it.

qwikz28

iTrader: (12)

I think you missed my point. I was under the assumption that more oil would dissipate heat better. Baffle has nothing to do with it. Maybe I'm wrong

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

You are not wrong. More capacity will absorb more heat.

The other side of that coin is once that capacity is heat soaked, it takes more heat exchanger effort to cool it.

I installed (on an LT1) an over-sized, aluminum PS tank. Capacity and heat transfer without a weight penalty.

Arctic2002ss

I still have problems with downshifting. I think I am getting the heal and toe thing on the street but then it all goes out the window on the track. I really need to work on that next time out. Still, this is the most fun I have with my car.

SIK02SS

iTrader: (11)

Best way to get the heal toe down, is by doing it everyday you drive the car on every down shift..

Shockwave179

iTrader: (7)

Curious what track you went to since you are downstate?

I ran Carbotech XP8's up front and AX6's on my car when I went to the Glen. They held up awesome, I'd highly recommend that setup. I use HPS's as my street pads so I know what the difference feels like. Definitly get better brake fluid like everyone else said.

Also it sounds like you were lucky with the powersteering situation. I actually blew up my powersteering pump right at the end of my second day. I've got a Turn One now but it may be wise to do both a Turn One and an aftermarket cooler.

Corvee

I suspect you exceeded the limits of the brake pads and fluid. HPS is a street pad. A good intermediate Hawk track pad is the HP Plus. You do not want something with too much bite, it will unsettle the car. Switch to minimum of DOT4 fluid (Motul or Amsoil). If the rotors are glazed, they should clear up by themselves after you bed the new pads.

Have fun!

qwikz28

iTrader: (12)

NJ Motorsports Park. My property line is the NY/NJ border, so its not that crazy, like 150 miles south. We ran the short track though. I'd love to go to Watkins Glen. One of these days...

How do you like your Turn One? Any difference in steering feel to report?

Shockwave179

iTrader: (7)

Yeah you should definitely try the glen out. If you've never been to the finger lakes region it would be a fun time.

I like the Turn One and you can barely tell the difference in my opinion. It does get pretty warm though so that's why I mentioned the cooler in addition to it.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Let me say once again, the TO pump is great. I am running one right now on my race car and had one on my old LS street car. I had no issues.

The TO pump will cost you close to $300.

Since I purchased my TO pump, we discovered Power Steering Components ( http://www.pscmotorsports.com/ ), a company who specializes in PS systems for race trucks, off-road racing trucks, rock crawlers and monster trucks.

They are local to me so they were contacted. We explained what we were after and Kevin at PSC was familiar with TO and said that he would rebuild and revalve our pumps for ~$100. They typically have a 24hr turn-around.

The only thing we've noticed is that the PSC pump seems to be a tiny bit louder than teh TO pump.

We've got 1/2 dozen of them in race cars with out a complaint.

qwikz28

iTrader: (12)

Thanks Shockwave and Mitch- If I do decide to replace the pump, I'll likely just have PSC do it. It is my understanding that they actually improved on the TO design.

Since I have everyone's attention, how important is a oil temp gauge in the list of track day prep mods?

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Are you going to pull off or slow down if the temp gets too high?

While working in Lou Gigliotti's shop building his Trans AM and World challenge Vettes, I kept noticing that he had very few gauges in the car.

I asked him about it and his response was profound. "You think I'm going to stop or pull over if the car overheats?"

Its a legit question.

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

Put ducts on the car. Go pepared.

Put a pump and a cooler on the car, go prepared.

The little bit of money you spend on those items will pay big dividends in the level of enjoyment you get out of expensive track days.

Why most guys seem to be proud to "slide by" not needing this or that.....I don't get it.

I spent a lot of money to be at the track day, I will not baby the car to "get by", if you really want to get into doing this, you gonna spend a few bucks.

Glenn98ZM6

The noise from the PSC pumps is likely due to them dropping the flow below what TO will do. PSC is dropping the flow of the pump way down for RR use (per mine and Mitch's request) to help w/ the feel and feedback thru the wheel. THE OEM pumps at 3K rpms to 6K rpms flows way too much fluid/pressure relative to what you need. This builds tons of heat and poor feedback. Its great for idleing around a parking lot, it sucks for racing/tracking your car.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

We "slid by" for over ten years on our street cars and then on to our race cars without ducts.
And trust me, we didn't ***** foot around by any stretch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdGrYXUs7C0

That's my old street car being chased by a good friend.


It doesn't hurt to have them. But it certainly isn't high on a list of things you "need".

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

Mitch, you have great knowledge and experience. You will end up with this stuff anyway if you make 3-4 HPDE events a year....and you will. So why not go ahead and tell them?

There are posts all over including mine on my 1st HPDE with a burned up power steering pump and over taxed brakes.

Not everyone drives like you or your buddies or the same tracks you run.

So why not just tell the newbs, save them the brain damage of driving to a $450 two day event and have them running around town between sessions buying brake rotors and power steering pumps.

They could have had that stuff done before they left home with.ducts and a cooler. Had way more fun and enjoyed the event.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Brother, everyone has been dancing around what we've seen time and again.

Your brake problems were you ... not the hardware. You just don't have to crawl all over the brakes to go fast.

I don't say that to start a bunch of drama or make you feel bad. Your experience and sharing that experience has been an awesome lesson for me. Almost all of us have been EXACTLY where you are today.

My epiphony on this concept was trying my best to keep up with a mini Cooper that had 3 passengers.

Anything I could gain on the straights, he was killing me from corner entry to track out. And if you think about it, you are turning on a road course a LOT more than you are going straight.

I saw that he wasn't using his brakes hardly at all (watched his brake lights).

What he was doing was floating the car down into the corner, letting the turning action scrub speed ... not the brakes. He was using throttle to maintain his slip angle. It was difficult concept for me to get my head around ... using the throttle to help slow the car.

Wailing on the brakes and then standing on the gas will never yield you a fast lap. It might feel fast because you are bouncing around the cag, but the timing loop deosn't lie.

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

Mitch, that's an awful lot of writing to say "he carried a huge amount of momentum"

Momentum is what we all need to learn, until we get a large enough ******* to turn in where we should carrying the speed that's way faster than your brain likes, we are gonna be hard on parts.

It's called fight or flight, I learned about from a book by Keith Code. I deal with it pretty well, better than most.

But until us newbs on big tracks such as Barber learn, we are gonna cook parts.

So why not tell the ones who ask what they need?

You need brake ducts
PS cooler with synthetic fluid
Race pads on front, hybrid on the rear
1 quart over on oil
+ 5psi air in front tires,+3 in rear to start
Race brake fluid in brakes and clutch.


Do the above list, pay for the event, have a car under you so you can learn. Instead of wishing you did.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Picking up VERY bad habits along the way.

Which brings me 360* ... I can't believe the group you were running with allowed you to wail on your car like that. As an instructor, I'd never do that.

It leaves the customer with a sour taste in his mouth and is grossly unsafe.

Let's just agree to disagree on your "must do" list.

First timer's prep list:

Fresh Fluids
Decent brake fluid
Quality pads
Nut-n-Bolt the car
Chalk the tires and add or remove air accordingly


Bottom line ... I hope readers learn something from a good, honest, drama free debate.

EchoMirage

iTrader: (3)

fatboy......in this case the one with the black car. youve done exactly ONE track day, and youre talking like youve been doing it for years, and know precisely what you need. it takes many, many events to really learn just what you NEED and what you WANT. youre looking at this from a drag racers point of view. youre throwing money into the car before and after the very first time youve ever done it. doing that while stab & steer drag racing is one thing, as 99% of drag racing is just spending money. while 95% of road racing is DRIVER, not just money.

ive seen it firsthand. ive passed ricers on a tight, relatively slow course, who have spend tens of thousands on their car. motor swaps, suspensions, brakes (all the wrong kind), big dumb wings and body kits.......and i see how they drive. they have no idea what theyre doing, despite opening their checkbook and puking money into their car. my major parts on the car are: proper brakes, full suspension, and usually decent tires. plus at least 1000lbs on some of the ricers. and i walk right around them -especially in the turns- because they dont know how to drive.

ive passed mostly stock vettes at NJMP lightning, 5th gen camaros with heads/cam/blower, and some lowered GTO with a built motor/blower, putting some 500+ hp down. why, because they were new drivers, and/or didnt know about handling. my mods helped alot, especially brakes and tires; but simply following their line around the track showed why i was passing them.

all that time, i NEVER had brake ducts, other then a homemade job which consisted of nothing but shopvac hose pointed close to the rotor. proper track pads will NOT overheat, unless you purposely ride the brake the entire time. theyre designed to take the heat and function, while any high perf. street or hybrid pad wont.

since youre constantly on frrax and posting there, do a search for 00 trans ram, and see what his brake setup was. he raced professionally, and had nothing more then stock LS1 brakes on full race pads. no ducts whatsoever. you certainly dont 'need' ducts. you need pads. you need fresh, high temp fluid. if you do it often, 4+ times a year, you may need dedicated tires.

blatantly saying +5f/+3r is also completely wrong. EVERY car is different. EVERY suspension setup is different. EVERY track, tire, brake setup, WEATHER CONDITIONS are different......you tune the air for all those variables, each time. what may work one day may not work the next, with everything else seeming equal. race clutch fluid is also not 'needed.' will it hurt? of course not. but its not something that 'needs' to be done before your very first track day. if it could use a flush regardless of the track day, then fine. but its not on the list of musts for a first track day.