qwikz28

iTrader: (12)

I attended my first HPDE and it was awesome. I had a blast, and my car performed marvelously. I didn't even come close to the car's limit in terms of grip, and the car was always stable and balanced. I really advanced quite a bit in terms of heel-toe as well.

I was braking very late and many times found myself on the brakes mid-corner. I eventually got the hang of it, but by then, my brakes had nearly completely faded. Is this what it means to spread a caliper? My brakes are stock, except for brembo blanks and Hawk HPS pads. Is that a permanent issue? I believe one of the calipers is a reman unit as well.

Also, while my power steering fluid boils over often, this is the first time I have seen white substance on the cap. It looks like a white, mirky substance that is inappropriate to speak about on a public forum. Is that a cause for concern?

Thanks guys. I also would appreciate any driving or prep tips for next time around.

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

Are you still using the stock power steering cooler? I'd double check and make sure that something didn't fail and cause engine coolant to enter that system.

I've never done a HPDE in my Camaro, but the driving school I attended taught us to be light and long on the brakes in Grand Sport and ZO6 Vettes...start a little earlier so you can go lighter, and trail brake a good distance into the corner to put a little extra weight on the front tires so they could have a little more grip for steering. We were running around a 2.2 mile course with the stock Vette pads/fluid/etc, and they were holding up just fine over 30 minutes sessions. I'm far from an expert, but it made sense to me, and it was much easier on the car at the end of the day.

SVThuh

iTrader: (2)

The brakes fading doesn't necessarily mean that your calipers spread.. The pads could have just gotten too hot and exceeded their maximum temp to maintain optimum coefficient of friction. The HPS is a sport STREET pad.. Hell, if you are on a braking intensive track and running hard, the HP+ will also fall quite short.. I found out the hard way when I was coming down the front straight at Big Willow at 135+ into turn one which should have been taken at 70ish.. Came in hot, braked late, brakes faded.. Luckily all was well and I didn't bend it up.. But I did however boil the brake fluid and found the limit of the pads...

For your next HPDE event, I would strongly suggest getting a proper PS cooler, mounting it where it gets plenty of cool air across it, while still being protected and running a good hi-temp ATF in it.

For the brakes, I would suggest stepping up to a Hawk DTC-30 pad or equivalent, and flushing the brake fluid out to something made for high-temp racing type usage. Amsoil 600, Castrol SRF or like I use, Motul600 RBF.

If you are concerned about your calipers being spread, pull them off the rotors and measure them.. You can use a good machinist ruler sometimes and check for spread from the top of the caliper to the bottom of the face supports.

wrencher

iTrader: (2)

If he's got a Z28 likely dont have the power steering cooler.
I would flush out the fluid at the least...
There has to be some moisture in there some how,

The HPS's may not have been enough.
Those have a 800 temp max there abouts?
Doubt you spread the calipers, it take some heat & real racing to do that.
The pads would've gave up way before that.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

#1 ... run an extra quart of engine oil. And check it often as over-filling will cause it to burn away very fast. But you need the capacity to keep the oil level above the pump's pick-up tube.



You can install a cooler for the power steering. But it's just a band-aid. Your pump will fail. Many here use a pump revalved by Turn One. It's tried and true.

A couple years ago I found a company called Power Steering Components located about an hour from my house. They specialize is off-road racing, monster truck racing and rock crawling steering components.

They are able to take your pump and revalve it to a road race spec for about $100. They can turn it around in 24 hours, typically.

This pump, a small cooler and Red Line fluid and your pump issues will be gone forever.

And if you have a factory PS cooler which is in-line with the upper radiator hose, do yourself a favor and pitch that POS. Nothing like trying to cool PS fluid with 210* coolant.



Caliper spread is an issue that reduces pad life. The caliper will bend along it's back, opening the ears wider than the up close to the back. So the pad will taper, being thicker at the bottom thatn at the top.

After a while, you'll still get 100% pad surface contact, but you will be in the backing plate at the top and still lots of pad remaining at the bottom.

Only way to fix this is to replace the caliper. But don;t go back with a reman F-car caliper. Bite the bullet and install new GM C5 or C6 calipers. They are a direct bolt-on without and issue.

They've been on my CMC race car that way for years. It works just fine.



I've got HPS pads on my CTS-V and they will glaze at the end of a session. Mash the pedal and very little braking seems to be taking place. You need a more aggressive pad that can take the heat.

qwikz28

iTrader: (12)

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

While I do plan to upgrade the components, I wasn't expecting the HPDE to be that intense. It was for mostly first timers; I didn't really know what to expect. I wish I planned better, because my brakes really slowed me down (irony!).

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'm just worrying about spreading the brakes. Mostly because I don't know what it is, and when I see someone talk about it on here, it usually means they have to replace their brakes. My brakes do feel more mushy, and less responsive, but hopefully that is only the pads and fluid. I do plan on getting new pads, and flushing the burnt stuff for Amsoil 600 or equivalent. Perhaps some ceramics for the street, and an aggressive pad for the track. Time for some brake ducts too!

As for the Power Steering, that white froth is no reason for concern correct? My current plan is to bypass the cooler that runs along the rad hose, and mount an additional cooler onto the radiator. As for Mitchntx's suggestion of a new pump, I'll likely upgrade to that PSC unit once this one blows, but I have read that some have had success with just a cooler, and I hardly drive as hard as they do, so I'll save my money until that time comes. And some newer fluid.

Oh, and I'm running 6 quarts in my pan, I suppose its time to add some in there!

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I do appreciate it. LS1tech really helped me build a solid car. I'm sure I surprised a few out there with this thing, especially myself!

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

If it were me, I'd open the radiator cap and make sure the coolant looked alright (no cross-contamination), and I'd also pull a sample of the PS fluid from the reservoir. If the PS fluid still looks like ATF, and the coolant still looks like Kool-Aid, you should be fine. If either looks like a milk shake, you could have bigger problems that need to be addressed ASAP.

qwikz28

iTrader: (12)

Thanks. The only possibility of cross contamination would be at the radiator hose, correct?

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

Provided the rest of your engine is in good shape - the only place where the PS fluid and coolant come close enough to touch would be in that cooler in the upper radiator hose.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

The cooling system operates at 20psi or less. The PS system is more than that ... quite a bit more.

So unless there is a catastrophic failure in the heat exchanger inside the housing, fluid is only going to go one direction ... high psi to low.


Qwik - waiting for failure makes good fiscal sense. But if the pump fails and locks, not only will you losing power steering, you'll lose the drive belt, which turns the water pump and alternator.

Something to think about.

SIK02SS

iTrader: (11)

for PS fluid I recommend Joe Gibbs PSF...also, zip tie a rag over/around the filler cap to catch the boil over (not always a boil over, typically either a fluid expansion, and or our caps are just junk) as PSF will leak down onto sensors and wreak havoc...

As stated, get better pads. Everyone makes a set suitable for track. Start with a mild track pad and as they wear or over heat go more aggressive from their. Be warned, the more aggressive track pads yo use, the more they squeal on the street. Also upgrade brake fluid to something like Motul RBF600 or ATE super blue, both cheap and easy to come by.

your calipers will be fine for a long time until you really start putting real heat into them.

often times stock PSF when it gets hot and boils, will get frothy and bubbly, that's likely what you noticed...but it doesn't hurt to check per Steve's recommendation.

and stop braking mid corner, you're developing bad habits

qwikz28

iTrader: (12)

I'll check my fluids this weekend for color, but I'll likely ditch the stock cooler/hose and get a larger one mounted on the front.

Mitch- I understand what you are saying, but I suppose I run the risk at all times. It really isn't the fiscal advantage, so much as the car is predominantly a street cruiser, and I don't want the super heavy feel associated with a Turn One pump. I already have a smaller steering wheel that makes parking lot maneuvers tricky as it is. Perhaps I'll look into it when I stop being a pansy. I don't imagine the extra cooler and better fluid not being sufficient for my driving style.

Ronson- I blame video games! Braking late always worked for passing, and it stuck! But seriously, much of it is my difficulty in downshifting and heel-toeing into the correct gear for the turn. I started to get the hang of it towards the end on my second run (I actually called it quits after my second run as I was worried about my car's ability to make the almost 200 mile trip home).

Again, thanks guys for the tips. I got alot of work to do before the next time I take this car out on the track.

Arctic2002ss

It does sound like brake fluid may be your issue. I found that the HPS pad did fine on a lower speed coarse but sucked on a higher speed one. The HP+ did a lot better but I plan to go to a dedicated pad for track days and back to ceramics for street use.

I say to address the problems as you find them. I have the factory steering cooler and have not had any problems aside from that cap leaking thing.

Mitch has great advice but remember that he is talking from a race car perspective. You may want to move the car farther in that direction or not.

Isn't this stuff fun!!! Good luck.

RacerTim

iTrader: (2)

Do you really even need power steering? If you get rid of it, one less thing to go wrong, right? I can't imagine you ever go slow enough to need it.

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

True, but isn't the cooler on the low pressure side of the power steering system? Granted, I don't know what low pressure really means in that application, but low enough that standard spring clamps are all that's required.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Pressure enough to send a reasonable stream into the reservoir.

But your point is certainly valid.

EchoMirage

iTrader: (3)

ive had a turn one for about a year, and its definitely not a 'super heavy' feeling. my car is a track/weekend toy, so she barely gets 1000 miles a year, and even with that limited driving, i dont notice a difference in steering after the swap. if you still drive yours daily or close to it, youll never notice the difference after just a few days. i wouldnt bother with any kind of PS cooler. just get the turn one, use good fluid (i used royal purple) and youll be done with it.

my stock pump used to whine so loud i could hear it over my exhaust, which was headers, catted Y, and the original loudmouth. in other words, the whine was ridiculous. the new pump fixed that, and i havent had any problems since.

unless you feel like tinkering with it yourself, or can get some for extremely cheap, dont bother with brake ducts. you certainly dont need them for a few track days a year. proper pads/rotors, saved only for track, will be more then enough. 00 trans ram raced his TA in whatever series he was in, on stock LS1 brakes and no ducts. all he had were full race pads, and he had no fade or glaze.

if you do any motor work, or happen to drop the k member for any reason, install an oil pan baffle and you wont have to worry about adding another quart ever again.

qwikz28

iTrader: (12)

I'll talk to some people who have used the PSC pump and consider that as well. I'll add it to my list of summer projects.

And the K-member will likely be off this summer for replacement, but I don't think I'll be adding the baffle. I'll talk to my mechanic about it. I think adding a quart per oil change will be cheaper, and be better for cooling in the long run anyway.

SIK02SS

iTrader: (11)

i go against the grain on the PS pump...i like the lifetime warranty on my autozone ac delco pump. did the same on my corvette and been running Gibbs PSF in both since they were changed, have yet to have an issue. The corvette has a lot of track miles on it since the change too..

when you're still learning, don't fret on running hard and pushing harder. stay on track and focus on your lines and shifts, just brake sooner and softer and all your equipment will be happy

qwikz28

iTrader: (12)

It's just too fun to push the heck out of the car. I'm hoping I got it all out of my system, so I can focus on honing my downshifting skills.