Looking to get into Road Racing/AutoX...
09-16-2011, 06:23 PM
#1
Looking to get into Road Racing/AutoX... I've been thinking about getting into Road Racing/Autox. Ive got a 98 TA with alot of work done. I'm hoping for some tips on how to tweak my setup to make a good Road Race car that fits into a competitive class. I'm also considering selling this car for something else to Road Race with like a C5, EVO, STI, or an 03 Cobra and a few others. Here is my current setup.
Motor:
LQ9 408 Stroker
246/254 custom cam
TFS 235cc heads
FAST Ported 90mm intake
Full bolt ons
Drivetrain:
Built T56
Monster Stage 4 clutch
Strange 12 bolt rear w/ 4.10 gears
Suspension:
Tubular K-member no idea what brand
Lower A-arms no idea what brand
Strano Springs
Bilstein Shocks
Hotchkis LCAs
Stock Sways
Kenney browne Sub Frame Connectors
Wolfe 6pt Bolt in cage
Solid motor mounts
Panhard bar
Global West TQ arm
Brakes
Stock Calipers
EBC Red stuff pads
EBC dimpled and slotted rotors
Wheels/Tires
Front 255 Nitto 555's
Rear 315 MT ET street drag radials
17" American Racing TQ thrust M's
Car makes 508rwhp on a shitty day
Ive been looking into this and I have an ideal setup id like to go with and i know that big 408 motor makes way to much power for this car around a track.
Here is what I think needs to be changed.
Motor:
Stock Ls1 shortblock
228r cam
ported 243 heads
going to keep my fast intake with this setup.
Drivetrain:
LS7 Clutch w/lightened flywheel
Suspension
Bigger sway bars
Better TQ arm
Not sure what brands to go with
Wheels/tires
Nitto NT05's all around with atleast 275's all around
OE Wheels 17x11 or 10.5 zr1's
Let me know what you guys think about this setup and what you would recommend doing. And I would also would like to know how exactly I can get into this type of racing. The car is not going to be a DD but I would like to be able to drive it anywhere without having to worry about poor drivability or bumps or anything. I'd also like to know how you think this setup would compare to a C5 or any of the other cars mentioned. Im really liking the idea of getting a C5 but It would kill me to get rid of this car.
Thanks in advance!
Jeff
Motor:
LQ9 408 Stroker
246/254 custom cam
TFS 235cc heads
FAST Ported 90mm intake
Full bolt ons
Drivetrain:
Built T56
Monster Stage 4 clutch
Strange 12 bolt rear w/ 4.10 gears
Suspension:
Tubular K-member no idea what brand
Lower A-arms no idea what brand
Strano Springs
Bilstein Shocks
Hotchkis LCAs
Stock Sways
Kenney browne Sub Frame Connectors
Wolfe 6pt Bolt in cage
Solid motor mounts
Panhard bar
Global West TQ arm
Brakes
Stock Calipers
EBC Red stuff pads
EBC dimpled and slotted rotors
Wheels/Tires
Front 255 Nitto 555's
Rear 315 MT ET street drag radials
17" American Racing TQ thrust M's
Car makes 508rwhp on a shitty day
Ive been looking into this and I have an ideal setup id like to go with and i know that big 408 motor makes way to much power for this car around a track.
Here is what I think needs to be changed.
Motor:
Stock Ls1 shortblock
228r cam
ported 243 heads
going to keep my fast intake with this setup.
Drivetrain:
LS7 Clutch w/lightened flywheel
Suspension
Bigger sway bars
Better TQ arm
Not sure what brands to go with
Wheels/tires
Nitto NT05's all around with atleast 275's all around
OE Wheels 17x11 or 10.5 zr1's
Let me know what you guys think about this setup and what you would recommend doing. And I would also would like to know how exactly I can get into this type of racing. The car is not going to be a DD but I would like to be able to drive it anywhere without having to worry about poor drivability or bumps or anything. I'd also like to know how you think this setup would compare to a C5 or any of the other cars mentioned. Im really liking the idea of getting a C5 but It would kill me to get rid of this car.
Thanks in advance!
Jeff
09-16-2011, 06:30 PM
#2
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For autocross, your set-up isn't too bad as is minus rear tires. For track days, you will need to address your brakes, in addition to several things.
You have to realize a track set-up car is different than an autocross car.
When you say competative class for road racing, are you talking NASA events, or just 'track days'?
I've been autocrossing since 2005, and first track day in 2010. I'm still learning a LOT along the way. FYI, track days are so much more fun than autocrossing. I have yet to do wheel to wheel or sanctioned events, but I have a friend that has through NASA.
www.frrax.com is a must.
My biggest suggestion - drive the car as is, and figure out where you really NEED to address your $ at after an event or two. Like many, I figured I would need to do this and that, and this, and in honesty, found out I needed to upgrade my brakes first and foremost vs. droping in $1000 in suspension.
I've gonna keep doing the HPDEs, so now I'm looking into a 5pt roll cage.
You have to realize a track set-up car is different than an autocross car.
When you say competative class for road racing, are you talking NASA events, or just 'track days'?
I've been autocrossing since 2005, and first track day in 2010. I'm still learning a LOT along the way. FYI, track days are so much more fun than autocrossing. I have yet to do wheel to wheel or sanctioned events, but I have a friend that has through NASA.
www.frrax.com is a must.
My biggest suggestion - drive the car as is, and figure out where you really NEED to address your $ at after an event or two. Like many, I figured I would need to do this and that, and this, and in honesty, found out I needed to upgrade my brakes first and foremost vs. droping in $1000 in suspension.
I've gonna keep doing the HPDEs, so now I'm looking into a 5pt roll cage.
09-16-2011, 06:33 PM
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Also, a c5 will still out run and be a better car to drive over a modified F-Body. I suggest you drive a few events before dropping lots of money in the car - and to make sure this is what you want to do (didn't read that you have done this before).
09-16-2011, 06:58 PM
#4
For autocross, your set-up isn't too bad as is minus rear tires. For track days, you will need to address your brakes, in addition to several things.
You have to realize a track set-up car is different than an autocross car.
When you say competative class for road racing, are you talking NASA events, or just 'track days'?
I've been autocrossing since 2005, and first track day in 2010. I'm still learning a LOT along the way. FYI, track days are so much more fun than autocrossing. I have yet to do wheel to wheel or sanctioned events, but I have a friend that has through NASA.
www.frrax.com is a must.
My biggest suggestion - drive the car as is, and figure out where you really NEED to address your $ at after an event or two. Like many, I figured I would need to do this and that, and this, and in honesty, found out I needed to upgrade my brakes first and foremost vs. droping in $1000 in suspension.
I've gonna keep doing the HPDEs, so now I'm looking into a 5pt roll cage.
You have to realize a track set-up car is different than an autocross car.
When you say competative class for road racing, are you talking NASA events, or just 'track days'?
I've been autocrossing since 2005, and first track day in 2010. I'm still learning a LOT along the way. FYI, track days are so much more fun than autocrossing. I have yet to do wheel to wheel or sanctioned events, but I have a friend that has through NASA.
www.frrax.com is a must.
My biggest suggestion - drive the car as is, and figure out where you really NEED to address your $ at after an event or two. Like many, I figured I would need to do this and that, and this, and in honesty, found out I needed to upgrade my brakes first and foremost vs. droping in $1000 in suspension.
I've gonna keep doing the HPDEs, so now I'm looking into a 5pt roll cage.
Ditto that.
gmmusclecarman, I'd run with your existing car, and tweak from there. You may eventually move on to another vehicle, but do that after you've gotten a taste for what you want. A C5 or C6 might be the next car, or a 5th gen camaro, or a Miata, or a BMW 3-series, or a 302 Boss. Who knows.
Here are some observations I can add, after going to the June Sprints at Road America a couple times. Keep in mind, I haven't done any competitive racing yet. I am still setting up a car to play with. On my second visit to RA, I took a lot of time to look at the F-bodies and Mustangs to see what I could ape for my own setup.
- Most of the cars, including the GT1s, had at most 275-wide tires on all four corners.
- All four tires were the same exact size.
- Everything had big brakes and brake cooling ducts.
- Everything had R-compound tires (mostly Hoosier)
The 98 TA sounds about where I'd eventually get my 81. Keep 'er rolling!
Last edited by 1981TA; 09-16-2011 at 11:56 PM.
09-16-2011, 11:44 PM
#6
If I keep all this power I have now and I put on some rear tires with alot less traction Im going to be all over the place. I barely get traction as it is now. And with all this power how am I going to be able to stop and turn???
Im looking at racing with mcscc http://www.mcscc.org/index.php
Im looking at racing with mcscc http://www.mcscc.org/index.php
09-17-2011, 09:43 AM
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i still dont get what you plan on doing. are you talking just track days/time trials, or wheel to wheel racing. if its W2W, youll need a completely stripped, gutted, caged racecar. more then just a bolt in 6pt. im talking a full welded cage: halo bar, door bars, a pillar bars, everything. not to mention you may need a racing license also.
if its just track days/trials, then it doesnt matter what you have done. drive as is (with brake upgrades) and learn first. road courses are 90% driver, 10% car.
if its just track days/trials, then it doesnt matter what you have done. drive as is (with brake upgrades) and learn first. road courses are 90% driver, 10% car.
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09-17-2011, 10:53 AM
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As for having 'too much power', when you are off the gas the car is still the same. Learn to drive it the way it is. Smooth is fast. Sounds like you need to get some seat time before going any further.
09-17-2011, 10:59 AM
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i did this wright up a few years ago on a z forum and it holds true. if you looking to be competitive in auto x get a miata. they love the tight stuff and are easy to modify.
in a desperate effort to see more z's/g's on the hot sweaty parking lots of America, i wanted to offer a little bit of encouragement. i know the 350z is an amazing platform for racing and i want to see more out there. i recently read an article in grass roots magazine that did a "how to get on the track" for track racing, and i thought i could do the same for auto x.
first what is it....... auto x (or some times called solo) is a time trials event. It's race against the clock and compare times against similar cars or drivers of the same skill level. the track is laid out in a parking lot (sometimes on a tracks infield). it is made up of cones! stupid nasty cones. the idea is to go threw the cones quickly as you can with out hitting any. for the most part the penalty for hitting each cone is +2 seconds added to your time(this penalty may differ depending on what club is running the event).
how things go down!
finding an event. i have a list of websites that i search to find local and far away events. i will include some
http://www.myautoevents.com/pls/mae/...ode=1&psskip=0
http://www.audichicago.org/upcomingEvents.php
http://www.windycitymiataclub.com/jo...220&Itemid=181
show up and show up early! nothing sucks worse then waking up early on a Sunday morning, finding out the field is full, and you can't race. showing up to registration an hour before it closes is a good rule of thumb. this will also allow you plenty of time to locate the coffee, and throw away the empty beer bottles/cans from the night before.
when you get there you will need to register. at registration you will need to sign a liability waver and pay. make sure any guests you bring with you sign the waver too. race fees vary from group to group depending thousands and thousands of variables. look up each organizations websites for specific amounts, but i've seen it range from $20-$45.
after you register it is time to prep/teck your car.
remove everything that isn't bolted down, literally! pull that MacDonald's trash, empty your glove compartment, everything! little noises on the track are distracting as hell. it sucks trying to hit the gas while trying to dodge a phone charger that came out from under your seat.
make sure your car is not dripping any fluids, your tires are inflated, the battery is tightened down and is generally safe. most clubs are self tech. meaning your responsible for insuring your car is safe to run.
learn the track this is accomplished 3 ways.
1 walk it. take some time and walk the track 3 times. the organizers should give you a map or lay out some way of showing you where it goes.
2 talk to people this is the time to make new friends and talk about the track. this is also the time to learn the lingo about stairways, garages, ect ect. if you have a social disorder and new people scare you, i recommend going to the windy city miata club. i have only met 1 intimidating person at the wcmc auto x and he was 7' tall and angry. wcmc loves new people, they are not like neail they love noobs!!
3 drive it! take some time and your first 2 runs should be slow! take your time and make sure you do a clean lap. nobody will point and laugh if you crawl the fist lap, also nobody's fattest lap is there first. also take someone with you. experienced drivers love to go with new people. it's a chance for them to learn the track as well.
have fun and don't be a douche small amounts of sliding happens it's cool. so don't go thinking your going to learn how to drift, nackers can point you in the direction of all the drift events. i support mid west drift union, a cool bunch of guys that can help you can get your start. but if you **** up a auto x and a vender closes a location, because we ruined a parking lot........ i will kill you. also nobody likes reving motors/burnouts in the pits. don't be a red neck. you think your tough, you wanna be cool, then get your name to the top of the leader board. i personally will come over and say your a bad ***.
tires
properly inflate your tires, blowouts suck! tires are the most important part of your car, fill them to 32 psi. all of these auto x nerds (i am an auto x nerd :blues
will tell you about peak psi, and how to find it. but for a beginner set it to 32 and concentrate on driving first. there will plenty of time for learning about tire pressure after your first few races. make sure your tires are safe. bald tires happen and most places will let you run with them. just make sure there are no bubbles/ steel threads showing. just make sure they are generally safe to drive on.
what you need!
#1 a car/truck/cart/hovercraft it doesn't matter what you bring! just make sure you can safley drive around a parking lot with it.
don't make the mistake of saying i need coil overs, or wheels, or a bbk, ect.. before i go to the track. chances are those things will make you faster but you probably have no idea why or how to use them. if you come out with a built car and you get beat by a $400 1.6l miata you will be embarrassed. so get your but on the track, learn, grow, and then get what you need.
#2 a helmet
most clubs have rental helmets, but that's f*cking nasty. those things smell like a dead mans feet. i highly recommend bringing your own. anything that is dot, snell 2000, snell sa2005, legal will work i think you can find them for 50 bucks. motorcycle helmets work too.. but you will need one regardless.
#3 shoes are optional
it's strange i know, you would think they would be required but they are not.
race, work, rest, there is usually 3 run groups. while the 1st run group is running the 2nd is working the field, picking up knocked down cones and other things. the 3rd run group is resting. the run groups rotate during the day. do not skimp out on working! it's not hard. if you leave while your suppose to be working the karma police will get you, and probably ruin your credit rating.
learning how to drive
Michael Schumacher doesn't go to auto x, he owns his own parking lot. nobody there is the best or better then anyone else, every one is there to learn and have fun. no upturned noses at these events. if your having trouble in a cretin part of the coarse you can ask people how to do better. most will tell you what your doing wrong, some will get in the car and coach you. just ask anyone who the good coaches are and they will gladly help you out. it's all about learning how to drive and learning your car better. i believe auto x is is a stepping stone for all motor-sports. it is the gateway.
That's it that's the day! it's allot of racing allot of fun, allot of good people. i guess if you have any questions you can comment.
first what is it....... auto x (or some times called solo) is a time trials event. It's race against the clock and compare times against similar cars or drivers of the same skill level. the track is laid out in a parking lot (sometimes on a tracks infield). it is made up of cones! stupid nasty cones. the idea is to go threw the cones quickly as you can with out hitting any. for the most part the penalty for hitting each cone is +2 seconds added to your time(this penalty may differ depending on what club is running the event).
how things go down!
finding an event. i have a list of websites that i search to find local and far away events. i will include some
http://www.myautoevents.com/pls/mae/...ode=1&psskip=0
http://www.audichicago.org/upcomingEvents.php
http://www.windycitymiataclub.com/jo...220&Itemid=181
show up and show up early! nothing sucks worse then waking up early on a Sunday morning, finding out the field is full, and you can't race. showing up to registration an hour before it closes is a good rule of thumb. this will also allow you plenty of time to locate the coffee, and throw away the empty beer bottles/cans from the night before.
when you get there you will need to register. at registration you will need to sign a liability waver and pay. make sure any guests you bring with you sign the waver too. race fees vary from group to group depending thousands and thousands of variables. look up each organizations websites for specific amounts, but i've seen it range from $20-$45.
after you register it is time to prep/teck your car.
remove everything that isn't bolted down, literally! pull that MacDonald's trash, empty your glove compartment, everything! little noises on the track are distracting as hell. it sucks trying to hit the gas while trying to dodge a phone charger that came out from under your seat.
make sure your car is not dripping any fluids, your tires are inflated, the battery is tightened down and is generally safe. most clubs are self tech. meaning your responsible for insuring your car is safe to run.
learn the track this is accomplished 3 ways.
1 walk it. take some time and walk the track 3 times. the organizers should give you a map or lay out some way of showing you where it goes.
2 talk to people this is the time to make new friends and talk about the track. this is also the time to learn the lingo about stairways, garages, ect ect. if you have a social disorder and new people scare you, i recommend going to the windy city miata club. i have only met 1 intimidating person at the wcmc auto x and he was 7' tall and angry. wcmc loves new people, they are not like neail they love noobs!!
3 drive it! take some time and your first 2 runs should be slow! take your time and make sure you do a clean lap. nobody will point and laugh if you crawl the fist lap, also nobody's fattest lap is there first. also take someone with you. experienced drivers love to go with new people. it's a chance for them to learn the track as well.
have fun and don't be a douche small amounts of sliding happens it's cool. so don't go thinking your going to learn how to drift, nackers can point you in the direction of all the drift events. i support mid west drift union, a cool bunch of guys that can help you can get your start. but if you **** up a auto x and a vender closes a location, because we ruined a parking lot........ i will kill you. also nobody likes reving motors/burnouts in the pits. don't be a red neck. you think your tough, you wanna be cool, then get your name to the top of the leader board. i personally will come over and say your a bad ***.
tires
properly inflate your tires, blowouts suck! tires are the most important part of your car, fill them to 32 psi. all of these auto x nerds (i am an auto x nerd :blues
will tell you about peak psi, and how to find it. but for a beginner set it to 32 and concentrate on driving first. there will plenty of time for learning about tire pressure after your first few races. make sure your tires are safe. bald tires happen and most places will let you run with them. just make sure there are no bubbles/ steel threads showing. just make sure they are generally safe to drive on. what you need!
#1 a car/truck/cart/hovercraft it doesn't matter what you bring! just make sure you can safley drive around a parking lot with it.
don't make the mistake of saying i need coil overs, or wheels, or a bbk, ect.. before i go to the track. chances are those things will make you faster but you probably have no idea why or how to use them. if you come out with a built car and you get beat by a $400 1.6l miata you will be embarrassed. so get your but on the track, learn, grow, and then get what you need.
#2 a helmet
most clubs have rental helmets, but that's f*cking nasty. those things smell like a dead mans feet. i highly recommend bringing your own. anything that is dot, snell 2000, snell sa2005, legal will work i think you can find them for 50 bucks. motorcycle helmets work too.. but you will need one regardless.
#3 shoes are optional
it's strange i know, you would think they would be required but they are not.
race, work, rest, there is usually 3 run groups. while the 1st run group is running the 2nd is working the field, picking up knocked down cones and other things. the 3rd run group is resting. the run groups rotate during the day. do not skimp out on working! it's not hard. if you leave while your suppose to be working the karma police will get you, and probably ruin your credit rating.
learning how to drive
Michael Schumacher doesn't go to auto x, he owns his own parking lot. nobody there is the best or better then anyone else, every one is there to learn and have fun. no upturned noses at these events. if your having trouble in a cretin part of the coarse you can ask people how to do better. most will tell you what your doing wrong, some will get in the car and coach you. just ask anyone who the good coaches are and they will gladly help you out. it's all about learning how to drive and learning your car better. i believe auto x is is a stepping stone for all motor-sports. it is the gateway.
That's it that's the day! it's allot of racing allot of fun, allot of good people. i guess if you have any questions you can comment.
09-17-2011, 03:59 PM
#10
TECH Senior Member
09-18-2011, 04:04 PM
#12
better pads and fluid to start with. blank rotors are better than anything with a dimple. your GW TA is fine..just find a local hpde company and register with an instructor and get on track. lots of car clubs have auto-x events as does scca, so searching through those would be a good start for that. you'll want stock lower a-arms and lower control arms (unless the lca's are rod ended, then they're fine). and just a good summer tire in either 275 or 315. don't get r-compounds until you're heavily experienced
09-18-2011, 04:43 PM
#13
better pads and fluid to start with. blank rotors are better than anything with a dimple. your GW TA is fine..just find a local hpde company and register with an instructor and get on track. lots of car clubs have auto-x events as does scca, so searching through those would be a good start for that. you'll want stock lower a-arms and lower control arms (unless the lca's are rod ended, then they're fine). and just a good summer tire in either 275 or 315. don't get r-compounds until you're heavily experienced
Your car is heavily modified and will be way more than enough for HPDE. Remember there is no prize money for winning a track day.
There will ALWAYS be some one faster ... ALWAYS. So just go and have some fun, learn car control and have fun.
Did I say be sure to have fun?
09-19-2011, 09:14 PM
#14
better pads and fluid to start with. blank rotors are better than anything with a dimple. your GW TA is fine..just find a local hpde company and register with an instructor and get on track. lots of car clubs have auto-x events as does scca, so searching through those would be a good start for that. you'll want stock lower a-arms and lower control arms (unless the lca's are rod ended, then they're fine). and just a good summer tire in either 275 or 315. don't get r-compounds until you're heavily experienced
09-19-2011, 11:40 PM
#15
Can't say much for 4th gens, as I don't own one, but on the 2nd gens, the A arms are relatively heavy, compared to what can be made nowadays. Plus, well-made aftermarket A arms will have adjustments built into their design for things like wider wheels, header clearance, better caster and camber angles for handling, etc.
09-20-2011, 10:01 AM
#16
Aftermarket lower a-arms are typically not built to endure the forces of a road course or auto-x environment. A good company will tell you some customers use them, but they don't recommend them. UMI is working on a good one, but I don't think it's out yet. Stock is plenty strong and selling your old tubular ones puts extra $$ in your pocket. (this is important)
aftermarket LCAs without rod ends or roto joints, will cause binding in the corners and hurt the transition of the car from straight to corner to straight (in lamens terms). It will make the car very difficult to drive and can cause you to create bad habits early on in your learning process in trying to drive around the problem. LCA Relocation brackets are also useless on a road course UNLESS you custom make them for your current ride height. I don't know of a single relo bracket that makes the LCA sit parallel to the ground (which is what you want for hpde and auto-x); they are all designed for drag racing which gives the LCA an opposite rake iirc.
09-20-2011, 03:56 PM
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LCA Relocation brackets are also useless on a road course UNLESS you custom make them for your current ride height. I don't know of a single relo bracket that makes the LCA sit parallel to the ground (which is what you want for hpde and auto-x); they are all designed for drag racing which gives the LCA an opposite rake iirc.
