a lot of people told me that a 2002 trans am WS6 should do 163MPH (electronically limited) at 5500 RPMs.

Does it really hurt the engine when a person does that? how so?

I have a 6-spd is that really going to abuse my clutches or maybe transmission?

I always thought of it as "the car is made to go even faster but its limited to 163 so it should ok" especially since people told me that it could go up to 180 without the limiter and the rev limiter.

?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ??

 

**I always thought of it as "the car is made to go even faster but its limited to 163 so it should ok" especially since people told me that it could go up to 180 without the limiter and the RPMS WOULD BE AT THE rev limiter IN FIFTH GEAR.

 

well...

Just going as fast as the thing will go, is not bad. However, anytime that you run high RPMs you are running more engine wear. So, a long run up to whatever your top speed would be.... is just additional normal wear.

Jsut be sure all of your systems are intop shape & all fluids are fresh.

Additionally....

SAFETY ..... ain't too many places you can do that without affecting somebody elses or your safety...

I've been to 165 in my '88 M5, but not in the Chicken (just 145 ... still climbing but no more room). Seems like the M5 had more top end pull at the higher speed

 

thanks for the reply..
my top end should be 163 MPH at 5500 ... so your saying that its just normal engine wear when I do that? like what wears out exactly? just oil or other fluids or are we talking about something big here...

plus what about the transmission, clutches...etc
an M5 is a great car i always loved and respected that car.

 

Assuming that it's just a quick run up....no big deal. Just accelerated normal wear to all components.

Now, if you wanna go from Maine to NY at 165...that's another story.

If you have a 6 speed... will not effect the clutch at all (unless it's already tired & slipping). Fluids are fine too, again...for short runs.

 

I made the mistake of thinking that I could go about 200 miles at 160 the whole way.. I was wrong, and now I am paying for a new engine to be installed... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

 

When GM built the engine they ran it at top speed for a full tank. Worked fine.... but it wasn't going into a car to be used more either.

I ran my 6 speed '02 SS at 160 for a few miles. This was with stock tires and stock 1LE suspension.

I say 160 b/c the speedo stops at I was still climbing.

 

DAAAAAAAAAAAMNN jack 200 miles all the way doing 160! hope you had good brakes... REALLY good brakes...

what exactly happened to your engine?

 

I ran in the Silver State Classic last May 19th. It's a 90 mile race. I was running 160+ for about the first 40 miles, and about 130 for the next 20 , and at about 105 mph for the remainder.

1st thing is .... our cars won't go 200 miles at 160 or anything even close to this mph on a tank of gas. I went 90 miles and had 1/8 of a tank left over at an overall average of 129.917 mph. You might do 200 miles at 160 mph with 2 1/2 tanks though.

Since I got back from Nevada I went to the strip once and am still trapping 109.80 mph on a warm day, so it obviously didn't hurt my car at all. As a matter of fact I think it might be a little stronger now !

<small>[ September 13, 2002, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: Racehead ]</small>

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Racehead:
1st thing is .... our cars won't go 200 miles at 160 or anything even close to this mph on a tank of gas. I went 90 miles and had 1/8 of a tank left over at an overall average of 129.917 mph. You might do 200 miles at 160 mph with 2 1/2 tanks though.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Um, Race head they will get about 180 miles to the tank at WOT dependent on elevation. Done it on several occasions.
Our cars are not designed with the proper coolers to be driving at 150-160mph. For m6 vehicles you will literally cooked your the oil in your axle and transmission. if you have a Auto it will start puking fluid out the vent no matter what size tranny cooler you are running at about the 20 mile marker. Engine will be okay if you have a decent size oil cooler and have enough power to pull speed in 6th.

So far I have ruined 2 axles and two transmissions from high speed heat related driving.

Jack take care in Kosovo .

 

So Im curious...what is the "maximum" MPH/RPMs that you can run the F-body safely before the problems roy spoke about in the previous message start to manifest?

In other words, if I was to do sustained high-speed driving on a tank of gas what MPH should I not exceed?

 

Thats good information to know, thanks roy.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by roy:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Racehead:
1st thing is .... our cars won't go 200 miles at 160 or anything even close to this mph on a tank of gas. I went 90 miles and had 1/8 of a tank left over at an overall average of 129.917 mph. You might do 200 miles at 160 mph with 2 1/2 tanks though.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Um, Race head they will get about 180 miles to the tank at WOT dependent on elevation. Done it on several occasions.
Our cars are not designed with the proper coolers to be driving at 150-160mph. For m6 vehicles you will literally cooked your the oil in your axle and transmission. if you have a Auto it will start puking fluid out the vent no matter what size tranny cooler you are running at about the 20 mile marker. Engine will be okay if you have a decent size oil cooler and have enough power to pull speed in 6th.

So far I have ruined 2 axles and two transmissions from high speed heat related driving.

Jack take care in Kosovo .</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ummm Roy no they will NOT go 180 miles at WOT on a tank of gas, as a matter of fact they will just barely make it 90 miles. I raced with 150+ other cars during this race. Maybe 35 'Vettes, about 25 vipers, 15 other f-bodys, 25 or so Mustangs, Numerous Porsches etc. I talked to most of them after the race and I've got a pretty good idea of what kind of MPG cars tend to get at these speeds. One 4.8 Mustang who finished the race last year, ran out of gas at the 80 mile mark just because he had installed a blower and his fuel economy was reduced.You're absolutely incorrect. At the absolute outer limit they might go 110-120 miles and no more than that.
You are correct about the differential, tranny, and engine oil temps though. By the 60 mile mark my rear end was howling and vibrating terribly. I was using the Mobil 1 "Heavy" road racing diff fluid. It's why I slowed down to 105 for the last 20-25 miles. Once it cooled it sounded fine again, but before I run next May's SSCC again I'm replacing all the bearings in it. The 'Vette guys, who have engine oil temp gauges from the factory where talking about 280-300 degree engine oil temps while running the the 140-150 average speed classes. Since I was averaging 151 mph at the 50 mile mark I assume my oil temps were the same. I have no way of knowing what my tranny temps were ( M6 ) but I'm assuming they were high, although it isn't showing any signs of wear and still works perfectly.I used Mobil 1 synthetic through out the car during the race
Before next May's race I'm installing ( getting them from Doug Rippie Motorsports ) an engine oil cooler, a Manual tranny cooler, and a differential cooler, along with all the necessary gauges to monitor temps, pumps to make it work etc.
BTW if you want to try to win a little money from me AND prove me wrong, I'll make this offer to you. You enter next May's Silver State Classic in the 150 class ( 165 mph tech speed ). You average 150+ mph for the full 90 miles. At the end of the race we drain your tank and find out how much gas you have left. Using simple math we'll determine what your MPG was and how much further you could have gone. If it turns out that the established MPG average you had achieved would have allowed you to go 180 miles. I'll pay for your ENTIRE trip . Race fee's, room and board, transportation for your car to and from your house, EVERYTHING . If it turns out you were wrong ( and you are <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> ) then you pay mine . Deal ?

 

I found that a sustained speed of 130 mph is great .

But Cobray you could spike it for about 10 mins at wide open throttle. I still do . And then back to 130mph.
But to beable to use a full tank of Gas at WOT is a pipe dream on any highway or autobahn.

 

hey race head... i dont mean to be nosey or anything but maybe he meant doing 160 for a straight 180 miles where there are no dropping gears... when your doing it on curves (where you are slowing down to low speeds, low gears, and punching it again)... that might be the reason? for example crusing at 104-110 MPH for 13 seconds doesnt waste half as much gas as racing in a quarter mile...

maybe im wrong... i guess ill stay out of this... <img border="0" alt="[Firebird]" title="" src="graemlins/formula.gif" />

 

That's exactly what Roy meant. High speed autobahn driving in Germany, where you hardly ever have to let off the gas. I always stay in the left lane!!!!

Thanks Roy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ September 16, 2002, 05:29 AM: Message edited by: Jack ]</small>

 

Maybe he is talking about the autobahn, but there's a couple of things that you need to know.
If your going 160 mph then your in 5th gear, not 6th. If you did shift to 6th gear your car would slow down. So that means that your going to be running at 5500 rpm for 180 miles. In the SSCC, other than a 6 mile section, your can keep your speeds to 150+ for the whole entire race. And you never shift out of 5th gear. no dropping gears on this one.There is not much slowing down at all. It's basically wide open desert running baby ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> The autobahn has NOTHING on this race. Some of the drivers achieve 230+ mph in highly modified cars. Also I don't think the laws of physics change when your in Germany. It takes x amount of gas to make y amount of power required to go p speed, and it's still going to add up to z .... the total distance you can go on a tank of gas. I've been there and done that and I know. If he said that you could go 130 mph for 180 miles on a tank of gas then I wouldn't argue because you CAN do this speed in 6th gear and this would substantially increase your mpg. At 160 mph your going to get about 7 mpg. Go on SSCC's site and ask the people who do this twice a year. They'll give you mpg nightmares.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Racehead:
<strong>Maybe he is talking about the autobahn, but there's a couple of things that you need to know.
If your going 160 mph then your in 5th gear, not 6th. If you did shift to 6th gear your car would slow down. So that means that your going to be running at 5500 rpm for 180 miles. In the SSCC, other than a 6 mile section, your can keep your speeds to 150+ for the whole entire race. And you never shift out of 5th gear. no dropping gears on this one.There is not much slowing down at all. It's basically wide open desert running baby ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> The autobahn has NOTHING on this race. Some of the drivers achieve 230+ mph in highly modified cars. Also I don't think the laws of physics change when your in Germany. It takes x amount of gas to make y amount of power required to go p speed, and it's still going to add up to z .... the total distance you can go on a tank of gas. I've been there and done that and I know. If he said that you could go 130 mph for 180 miles on a tank of gas then I wouldn't argue because you CAN do this speed in 6th gear and this would substantially increase your mpg. At 160 mph your going to get about 7 mpg. Go on SSCC's site and ask the people who do this twice a year. They'll give you mpg nightmares.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I still get 180 to the tank at WOT and yes I use 6th and no I am not stock either. Also It would be pretty hard for me to visit America since I live in Germany.
But I will agree with you on running out of Gas in 5th at those rpms way before 180 miles .
Also just going WOT on relatively straight smooth winding road requires no skill. Yeah I get an addrenaline rush for about 5 minutes but after that it is boring. Hell I can give a wino a 5 minute class and have him flat shoe it for all its worth. Been there done that and got the car.

<small>[ September 16, 2002, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: roy ]</small>

 

Racehead, if you are in doubt, come over here and take a ride with Roy. I would say with me, but I'd probably blow up the engine again, so go with him and he will show you what you don't know. Don't be afraid to know less than someone else, because you always will. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by roy:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Racehead:
<strong>Maybe he is talking about the autobahn, but there's a couple of things that you need to know.
If your going 160 mph then your in 5th gear, not 6th. If you did shift to 6th gear your car would slow down. So that means that your going to be running at 5500 rpm for 180 miles. In the SSCC, other than a 6 mile section, your can keep your speeds to 150+ for the whole entire race. And you never shift out of 5th gear. no dropping gears on this one.There is not much slowing down at all. It's basically wide open desert running baby ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> The autobahn has NOTHING on this race. Some of the drivers achieve 230+ mph in highly modified cars. Also I don't think the laws of physics change when your in Germany. It takes x amount of gas to make y amount of power required to go p speed, and it's still going to add up to z .... the total distance you can go on a tank of gas. I've been there and done that and I know. If he said that you could go 130 mph for 180 miles on a tank of gas then I wouldn't argue because you CAN do this speed in 6th gear and this would substantially increase your mpg. At 160 mph your going to get about 7 mpg. Go on SSCC's site and ask the people who do this twice a year. They'll give you mpg nightmares.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I still get 180 to the tank at WOT and yes I use 6th and no I am not stock either. Also It would be pretty hard for me to visit America since I live in Germany.
But I will agree with you on running out of Gas in 5th at those rpms way before 180 miles .
Also just going WOT on relatively straight smooth winding road requires no skill. Yeah I get an addrenaline rush for about 5 minutes but after that it is boring. Hell I can give a wino a 5 minute class and have him flat shoe it for all its worth. Been there done that and got the car.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Roy,
What mods do you have that would allow for the huge increase in torque required to pull 6th gear. Stock with the 3.42 rear end ratio ( M6 ) 6th gear works out to 272 mph @ 6000 rpm. At 160 mph your only going to be turning about 3500 rpm ( I'm guessing here ) It would require a massive torque increase at low rpm's to achieve this . Like nitrous or a supercharger or something. What mods do you have on your car. What rear end ratio are you running ?
As far as skill level, let me add this. At last May's race we were running in 35 mph cross winds. It was so windy that the unlimited guys didn't even get their cars off the trailer. Try going through 150-155 mph blind sweepers that go on and on, on a narrow 2 lane road that, while it's smooth, it also has big dips in it, has almost no shoulder, and fighting a 35 mph cross wind at the same time ! I was being blown a 1/2 a lane over at times. Teach your wino buddy to do that in 5 minutes ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> I promise you that the most experienced of the drivers that were there, never had a single boring moment .

PS No hard feelings on my part <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />