Got into an argument with my buddy. Help please!
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12 Second Club
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From: Owings Mills, MD
Got into an argument with my buddy. Help please! He drives a 99 or 98 528i with M package and he says that his car would kill me in cornering any day. I disagree with it and think I'd be able to beat him in twisties.
What do you guys think about this.
thanks
OP
What do you guys think about this.
thanks
OP
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Joined: Jan 2004
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From: St.Charles MO
Your car is significantly lighter, but his has a better suspension setup. Around a turn with bumps, he'd definetly have it (thanks to the IRS). But a smooth surface turn, it would be alot more even.
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From: St.Charles MO
Originally Posted by OdessitPashka
IRS?
So, he'd outhandle me on a sharper turn, but on easier turns we'd be even?
So, he'd outhandle me on a sharper turn, but on easier turns we'd be even?
Our cars:
IRS:
Here is a simple example of how they work differently:
Solid rear end:
IRS:
Id say both cars are close enough to eachother in handling that it would really depend on the driver. But like I said before, if it was a bumpy road, or have any uneven pavement, he'd have the advantage in handling, due to having IRS.
Yah, German engineering is very good, our cars and even most vetts will do no more then 1.1g's cornering w/ work, mine does .96 so far, that is a lot, but there is porches out there that will pull 1.6g's cornering. That my friend means they’re going right on by through the turns. 
Its all engineering though, I saw a caddy, do 1.3g's on the skid pad, and a 55 chevy do 1.2. The guy in the caddy was an x F1 mech. w/ a homemade suspension.
Its all engineering though, I saw a caddy, do 1.3g's on the skid pad, and a 55 chevy do 1.2. The guy in the caddy was an x F1 mech. w/ a homemade suspension.
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I saw a guy in Daytona who was making IRS's using 9" center sections.
They were a bit too much money for me, but is the direction I would like to go some day. The problem with swapping one out of a vette or jag is they can’t take the power. There is also a guy I read about who machines out a vett IRS to take 12 bolt internals. Think I saw it in hot rod mag. or something..
I saw a guy in Daytona who was making IRS's using 9" center sections.
They were a bit too much money for me, but is the direction I would like to go some day. The problem with swapping one out of a vette or jag is they can’t take the power. There is also a guy I read about who machines out a vett IRS to take 12 bolt internals. Think I saw it in hot rod mag. or something..
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From: Owings Mills, MD
I guess. So, I should tell him that he was right about straight cornering, but that would make it more of an auto-x then. So, in any other race where straigh lines were involved he'd lose. So, I'd own him on a road course.
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From: St.Charles MO
Originally Posted by OdessitPashka
but didn't our cars come out in front of boxter, s2000, and such on a road course?
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....&page_number=1
You have to know though, that isnt all about handling. Power, brakes, and ease to drive all play a big role. And the Camaro is an all around good performer.
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From: St.Charles MO
Originally Posted by OdessitPashka
I guess. So, I should tell him that he was right about straight cornering, but that would make it more of an auto-x then. So, in any other race where straigh lines were involved he'd lose. So, I'd own him on a road course.
Originally Posted by JD_AMG
Yes, article here:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....&page_number=1
You have to know though, that isnt all about handling. Power, brakes, and ease to drive all play a big role. And the Camaro is an all around good performer.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....&page_number=1
You have to know though, that isnt all about handling. Power, brakes, and ease to drive all play a big role. And the Camaro is an all around good performer.
It also helps to stack the deck.
02 SS Twin Turbo 572rwhp - 7g's acceleration
Twin intercooled GT water cooled duel ball bearing turbos
hre 547's 18 x 11 - 18 x 10 w/ pilot sport's - 1.0 g's cornering
bilstien / hobskis / wolfe / kenny bell suspension
baer/alcon 4 piston / 13.5" 2 piece rotor brakes - 1.1 g's stoping
And my fingers crossed it can handle the abuse of a road course
http://www.vilipend.com/~frrax/album...BMW_mv1_hr.wmv
Count how many German engineered cars I passed in a basically stock motored and slightly modified live axles car ...
Magazine articles cater to advertisers
Count how many German engineered cars I passed in a basically stock motored and slightly modified live axles car ...
Magazine articles cater to advertisers
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12 Second Club
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From: Owings Mills, MD
Originally Posted by mitchntx
http://www.vilipend.com/~frrax/album...BMW_mv1_hr.wmv
Count how many German engineered cars I passed in a basically stock motored and slightly modified live axles car ...
Magazine articles cater to advertisers
Count how many German engineered cars I passed in a basically stock motored and slightly modified live axles car ...
Magazine articles cater to advertisers
Can't open the video
I think he told me he has the M package, maybe it's sport package, but he has 17s instead of 15s, different suspension, etc.
Staging Lane
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Calgary, Alberta
I often race with the local Porsche and BMW clubs. We race a short road course with a top speed around 100 MPH. I consistently beat the BMW's and there are only a handful of Porsche's ahead of me. In fact, I've finished first on a number of occasions. The GT3's and 911 Turbo's have a little bit on me depending on the track setup. I still run stock F1 tires too.
I do agree though - a smooth surface will benefit the IRS. But with a good driver you could clobber him. A newer M3 will be close, but an older car won't keep up.
Granted I have 500HP and that can help at times.
I do agree though - a smooth surface will benefit the IRS. But with a good driver you could clobber him. A newer M3 will be close, but an older car won't keep up.
Granted I have 500HP and that can help at times.
As others said, in a race between you two it would be more about driver skill than the cars. As far as the car's go, his IRS won't help that much unless on a very rough surface or if he as taken advantage of the adjustability for a good performance wheel alignment (doubtful.) So I'll add to what stang killer said and say: if you know how to drive, have done a good performance wheel alignment (mostly negative camber) have Koni's, swaybars, and springs, you'll have him. I listed those in order of importance, here it is again:
1) driver skill (take a driving school)
2) neg camber (1.7* possible on lowered fbody)
3) Koni SA shocks (set front about 60%, rear 20% max)
4) big sway bars (Hotchkiss or Strano hollow)
5) stiff springs (500-700 front, 150 to 175 rear)
In the interest of safety, cost and fairness, challenge him to an autoX at a local club event.
Edit: And a set of sticky tires will make a world of differance also, maybe more than all but #1.
1) driver skill (take a driving school)
2) neg camber (1.7* possible on lowered fbody)
3) Koni SA shocks (set front about 60%, rear 20% max)
4) big sway bars (Hotchkiss or Strano hollow)
5) stiff springs (500-700 front, 150 to 175 rear)
In the interest of safety, cost and fairness, challenge him to an autoX at a local club event.
Edit: And a set of sticky tires will make a world of differance also, maybe more than all but #1.
Last edited by Cal; Aug 11, 2005 at 12:00 PM.
