bye-bye drag racing, hello Road Racing.(questions)"long"
12-15-2005, 06:07 PM
#1
bye-bye drag racing, hello Road Racing.(questions)"long" Its official. When I want to go have some fun with my vert, I am heading to Road Atlanta and will leave the drag racing to others. 
But since I am new, I don't want to head in the wrong direction with parts. Here is a short version of what I have done previously.
MOTOR
TR224/114 cam, 5.3 stg. 2 heads, gmmg, bolt-ons
SUSP.
slp strut tower, slp level 1 susp, kbdd sfc's, and just ordered a bolt in 4 point Wolfe roll bar (not for susp., but for moving into class "b")tired of lead follow. Have done it to many times.
BRAKES
Bob Bishop brackets, stock c5 rotors, gm Zo6 calipers and stock zo6 pads, ordered stainless brake lines
TIRES
stock chrome 10 spoke with g-force KDW's
QUESTIONS
I know I will need a panhard bar and possibly LCA's. Do I need to order the Spherical end ones? Will I need to look into a Torque Arm? I am also looking into Sway bars as well. Is my TR224 on a 114lsa the type of cam I need for the max effort in Road Racing? It seems to be as far as I can read. Any change now may just be a waist of money. How about gearing. Looking to stay with my 10bolt now, but a gear change would help me get away from down shifting into second gear in two turns. My guess is 3.73's and stay away from 4.10's.
Still feeling the car out because you don't become an expert driver overnight.
As my driving techique improves, the more the car will come to me.
Thanks all for any info you have.
But since I am new, I don't want to head in the wrong direction with parts. Here is a short version of what I have done previously. MOTOR
TR224/114 cam, 5.3 stg. 2 heads, gmmg, bolt-ons
SUSP.
slp strut tower, slp level 1 susp, kbdd sfc's, and just ordered a bolt in 4 point Wolfe roll bar (not for susp., but for moving into class "b")tired of lead follow. Have done it to many times.
BRAKES
Bob Bishop brackets, stock c5 rotors, gm Zo6 calipers and stock zo6 pads, ordered stainless brake lines
TIRES
stock chrome 10 spoke with g-force KDW's
QUESTIONS
I know I will need a panhard bar and possibly LCA's. Do I need to order the Spherical end ones? Will I need to look into a Torque Arm? I am also looking into Sway bars as well. Is my TR224 on a 114lsa the type of cam I need for the max effort in Road Racing? It seems to be as far as I can read. Any change now may just be a waist of money. How about gearing. Looking to stay with my 10bolt now, but a gear change would help me get away from down shifting into second gear in two turns. My guess is 3.73's and stay away from 4.10's.
Still feeling the car out because you don't become an expert driver overnight.
As my driving techique improves, the more the car will come to me.Thanks all for any info you have.
12-15-2005, 09:01 PM
#3
Hello,
You've done two great things to start with: Improve the brakes and improve the suspension.
Leave it alone for the moment and concentrate on polishing the nut behind the wheel!!! The need for further adjustments will come to you thru experience and asking around.
Comments on the suspension: Great start. Others would've suggested something else if you were starting w/a blank slate, but here you are!!! As I recall, the SLP level 1 came with a 32 mm front ASB. Good addition. Your degree of improvement depends on the full extent of the suspension pkg available at the time of your purchase. Did it include the higher Durometer bushings in the rear lower control arms?
Don't worry about the Rear control arms and PHB w/rod ends at this time. You're OK for now, especially w/a 'vert. Probably limited in the ability to realize the stiffness such parts can give unless you get an eight point welded cage. (Can you spell added weight?)
Gears: leave 'em std at 3.42. If you NEED to spend $$$$ call Sam Strano and order a T2R. Best bucks you could spend if you have to give up more Geo Washingtons.
Advice regarding the back straight at RA: bite your lip and don't lift --at all--until you're in the brake zone. Should be able to hit 160+ in 5th thru there. Once your skills add up to your car, that is.
Steve
You've done two great things to start with: Improve the brakes and improve the suspension.
Leave it alone for the moment and concentrate on polishing the nut behind the wheel!!! The need for further adjustments will come to you thru experience and asking around.
Comments on the suspension: Great start. Others would've suggested something else if you were starting w/a blank slate, but here you are!!! As I recall, the SLP level 1 came with a 32 mm front ASB. Good addition. Your degree of improvement depends on the full extent of the suspension pkg available at the time of your purchase. Did it include the higher Durometer bushings in the rear lower control arms?
Don't worry about the Rear control arms and PHB w/rod ends at this time. You're OK for now, especially w/a 'vert. Probably limited in the ability to realize the stiffness such parts can give unless you get an eight point welded cage. (Can you spell added weight?)
Gears: leave 'em std at 3.42. If you NEED to spend $$$$ call Sam Strano and order a T2R. Best bucks you could spend if you have to give up more Geo Washingtons.
Advice regarding the back straight at RA: bite your lip and don't lift --at all--until you're in the brake zone. Should be able to hit 160+ in 5th thru there. Once your skills add up to your car, that is.
Steve
Originally Posted by Brian2001SS
Its official. When I want to go have some fun with my vert, I am heading to Road Atlanta and will leave the drag racing to others. But since I am new, I don't want to head in the wrong direction with parts. Here is a short version of what I have done previously.
MOTOR
TR224/114 cam, 5.3 stg. 2 heads, gmmg, bolt-ons
SUSP.
slp strut tower, slp level 1 susp, kbdd sfc's, and just ordered a bolt in 4 point Wolfe roll bar (not for susp., but for moving into class "b")tired of lead follow. Have done it to many times.
BRAKES
Bob Bishop brackets, stock c5 rotors, gm Zo6 calipers and stock zo6 pads, ordered stainless brake lines
TIRES
stock chrome 10 spoke with g-force KDW's
QUESTIONS
I know I will need a panhard bar and possibly LCA's. Do I need to order the Spherical end ones? Will I need to look into a Torque Arm? I am also looking into Sway bars as well. Is my TR224 on a 114lsa the type of cam I need for the max effort in Road Racing? It seems to be as far as I can read. Any change now may just be a waist of money. How about gearing. Looking to stay with my 10bolt now, but a gear change would help me get away from down shifting into second gear in two turns. My guess is 3.73's and stay away from 4.10's.
Still feeling the car out because you don't become an expert driver overnight. As my driving techique improves, the more the car will come to me.
Thanks all for any info you have.
But since I am new, I don't want to head in the wrong direction with parts. Here is a short version of what I have done previously. MOTOR
TR224/114 cam, 5.3 stg. 2 heads, gmmg, bolt-ons
SUSP.
slp strut tower, slp level 1 susp, kbdd sfc's, and just ordered a bolt in 4 point Wolfe roll bar (not for susp., but for moving into class "b")tired of lead follow. Have done it to many times.
BRAKES
Bob Bishop brackets, stock c5 rotors, gm Zo6 calipers and stock zo6 pads, ordered stainless brake lines
TIRES
stock chrome 10 spoke with g-force KDW's
QUESTIONS
I know I will need a panhard bar and possibly LCA's. Do I need to order the Spherical end ones? Will I need to look into a Torque Arm? I am also looking into Sway bars as well. Is my TR224 on a 114lsa the type of cam I need for the max effort in Road Racing? It seems to be as far as I can read. Any change now may just be a waist of money. How about gearing. Looking to stay with my 10bolt now, but a gear change would help me get away from down shifting into second gear in two turns. My guess is 3.73's and stay away from 4.10's.
Still feeling the car out because you don't become an expert driver overnight.
As my driving techique improves, the more the car will come to me.Thanks all for any info you have.
12-16-2005, 06:37 AM
#5
Leave it alone for the moment and concentrate on polishing the nut behind the wheel!!! The need for further adjustments will come to you thru experience and asking around.
You are right here. Will keep learning.
Comments on the suspension: Great start. Others would've suggested something else if you were starting w/a blank slate, but here you are!!! As I recall, the SLP level 1 came with a 32 mm front ASB. Good addition. Your degree of improvement depends on the full extent of the suspension pkg available at the time of your purchase. Did it include the higher Durometer bushings in the rear lower control arms?
They did, but unsure how stiff the bushings are. What is the advantage of a sperical rod end? The level 1 susp. sway bar is the same size as the stock SS sway bar, so some improvement here would probibly help.
Don't worry about the Rear control arms and PHB w/rod ends at this time. You're OK for now, especially w/a 'vert. Probably limited in the ability to realize the stiffness such parts can give unless you get an eight point welded cage. (Can you spell added weight?)
So the stiffness of the car works with the phb, and lca's? I have stiffen the body up with kbdd sfc's and a bolt in 4 point. The stb probibly helps, but a vert is alot less stiff no matter what you do.
Gears: leave 'em std at 3.42. If you NEED to spend $$$$ call Sam Strano and order a T2R. Best bucks you could spend if you have to give up more Geo Washingtons.
I will look into that T2R. Need to learn what its advantages is. So you don't think a 3.73 would help?
Advice regarding the back straight at RA: bite your lip and don't lift --at all--until you're in the brake zone. Should be able to hit 160+ in 5th thru there. Once your skills add up to your car, that is.
Bight your lip???? You mean pucker up your but!!!!! It will be awhile for I have those nads. Right now 130 is fast enough. Working on my comfort level. I still have to remind myself that I can only do what the track, car, and driver can handle safely.
Question, is there any problem with oil starvation at road atlanta with a ls1?
You are right here. Will keep learning.
Comments on the suspension: Great start. Others would've suggested something else if you were starting w/a blank slate, but here you are!!! As I recall, the SLP level 1 came with a 32 mm front ASB. Good addition. Your degree of improvement depends on the full extent of the suspension pkg available at the time of your purchase. Did it include the higher Durometer bushings in the rear lower control arms?
They did, but unsure how stiff the bushings are. What is the advantage of a sperical rod end? The level 1 susp. sway bar is the same size as the stock SS sway bar, so some improvement here would probibly help.
Don't worry about the Rear control arms and PHB w/rod ends at this time. You're OK for now, especially w/a 'vert. Probably limited in the ability to realize the stiffness such parts can give unless you get an eight point welded cage. (Can you spell added weight?)
So the stiffness of the car works with the phb, and lca's? I have stiffen the body up with kbdd sfc's and a bolt in 4 point. The stb probibly helps, but a vert is alot less stiff no matter what you do.
Gears: leave 'em std at 3.42. If you NEED to spend $$$$ call Sam Strano and order a T2R. Best bucks you could spend if you have to give up more Geo Washingtons.
I will look into that T2R. Need to learn what its advantages is. So you don't think a 3.73 would help?
Advice regarding the back straight at RA: bite your lip and don't lift --at all--until you're in the brake zone. Should be able to hit 160+ in 5th thru there. Once your skills add up to your car, that is.
Bight your lip???? You mean pucker up your but!!!!! It will be awhile for I have those nads. Right now 130 is fast enough. Working on my comfort level. I still have to remind myself that I can only do what the track, car, and driver can handle safely.
Question, is there any problem with oil starvation at road atlanta with a ls1?
12-16-2005, 09:21 PM
#6
Originally Posted by Brian2001SS
just ordered a bolt in 4 point Wolfe roll bar. Is my TR224 on a 114lsa the type of cam I need for the max effort in Road Racing? Thanks all for any info you have.
The TR224 is a nice street cam, but is by no means a max effort Road Race cam. Look at the Grand Am Cup cam if that is what you want. Fast ramp cams are not reliable in a sustained high rpm road race situation.
12-17-2005, 02:19 AM
#7
Originally Posted by Brian2001SS
Question, is there any problem with oil starvation at road atlanta with a ls1?
I was lucky for a long time ... but it did happen ...
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12-17-2005, 11:15 AM
#8
Originally Posted by Cal
Since you just ordered the Wolfe roll bar, maybe you can cancel it. This bar is more for drag racing, not road racing. Ask me how I found out! Look at the Autopower cages for road racing, or better yet, a custom cage built to match the rules you will race under.
The TR224 is a nice street cam, but is by no means a max effort Road Race cam. Look at the Grand Am Cup cam if that is what you want. Fast ramp cams are not reliable in a sustained high rpm road race situation.
The TR224 is a nice street cam, but is by no means a max effort Road Race cam. Look at the Grand Am Cup cam if that is what you want. Fast ramp cams are not reliable in a sustained high rpm road race situation.
Will look into that Grand Am Cup cam. Thanks
12-19-2005, 09:13 PM
#9
You may get by with two changes: brakes and wheels and tires. Shocks may also be a good idea.
Brakes can take a beating, especially with a new driver who will use them more. Minimally plan on track pads and front brake ducts. Parts are available inexpensively to duct air directly into the rotors. Next step would be aftermarket rotors.
Tires take a beating on a race track and, although I don't have personal experience, a KDW may really overheat in a 30 minute session. Also, your wheels may not be strong enough. The last thing you want is the wheel to break at the hub. If it happens at the wrong time it can turn your car into an airplane. CCW seems to be the low cost wheel of choice and there are a variety of racing tires available, including real Goodyear slicks. You will need a friend or a tire trailer to get them to the track.
Shocks are a primary factor in control. There are various solutions from relatively in expensive Bilstein HDs, to custom valved Bilsteins (from LG), or Penskes (from several sources). Again, a known good setup is the best way to go.
You will probably also benefit from an alignment.
Corvettes are fast cars. You want it as easy to drive as possible when learning. And as reliable as possible in order to get track time.
Brakes can take a beating, especially with a new driver who will use them more. Minimally plan on track pads and front brake ducts. Parts are available inexpensively to duct air directly into the rotors. Next step would be aftermarket rotors.
Tires take a beating on a race track and, although I don't have personal experience, a KDW may really overheat in a 30 minute session. Also, your wheels may not be strong enough. The last thing you want is the wheel to break at the hub. If it happens at the wrong time it can turn your car into an airplane. CCW seems to be the low cost wheel of choice and there are a variety of racing tires available, including real Goodyear slicks. You will need a friend or a tire trailer to get them to the track.
Shocks are a primary factor in control. There are various solutions from relatively in expensive Bilstein HDs, to custom valved Bilsteins (from LG), or Penskes (from several sources). Again, a known good setup is the best way to go.
You will probably also benefit from an alignment.
Corvettes are fast cars. You want it as easy to drive as possible when learning. And as reliable as possible in order to get track time.
12-21-2005, 02:44 AM
#10
Make sure your brake pads (mainly up front) are a road race pad designed for your weight and intended use. Street pads will not suffice.
7 quarts of oil as mentioned is what I do and get a proper water temp guage that is calibrated. I installed the temp probe in a hole drilled next to the TB arm on the water pump with the horizontal round casting mark. Make sure the probe clears the TB arm when it moves before drilling/tapping.
The cam is a bit small and the KDW's even though a great street tire will not shine on the road course after they get some heat in them. If you have the coin get another set of rims with dedicated track tires. If you can drive to the track get either Toyo RA-1's or a very strong contender the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires (I pulled 1.13g's on these). Both will wear well and are streetable race tires. This would be good for the first season. Once you determine how serious you want to get you get track only tires next year.
For on track only tires that never see street driving the DOT R-compound Hoosier RS304 and Kumho V710's are great..... Then a Dunlop slick, Good Year slick, or Avon slick or similar tires would be good choices.
Get a good alignment as stated and try to find what settings are used by local racers (ie NASAProRacing.com CMC challenge (camaro/mustang racing) spec). A bit of negative camber up front will do wonders for turn in responsiveness. Maybe some camber/caster plates as well.
Use the first session to truly feel comfortable with the car making sure all suspension/brakes/cooling systems are functioning properly. Try to learn some of the idiosynchrosies of the car and every lap begin to gain more corner entry speed and not drift the car just yet. Clean lines and proper timing with romping on the gas when exiting corners are the keys to low times. Be aware of others around you at all times and use the entire course... meaning when entering corners have one side as close to or on the red/white stripped birms indicated good points to reference.
Once you have the lines of the track down and braking points you can increase speed and feel the limits of the tires (slight 4 wheel drift) going around corners and judge maximum speeds. Listen to instructors and follow others that seem to know the course well to learn the line and braking zones. You will learn them quickly and the name of the game is control.
From there... simply increase speeds having good control and awareness of others and your braking/accelleration potential... then bradda.... go rip up the track.
Stay hydrated and get a good nights sleep the night before. An accurate tire pressure guage is important as is a fire extinguisher. Make sure your tire pressures are at a recommended level either by someone with similar setup/tires racing or call the manufacturer/local road race alignment shop.
Have fun and be safe. Keep an eye on coolant temps and smoking brake rotors during every session...
Remember that you are drag racing between every corner still!
7 quarts of oil as mentioned is what I do and get a proper water temp guage that is calibrated. I installed the temp probe in a hole drilled next to the TB arm on the water pump with the horizontal round casting mark. Make sure the probe clears the TB arm when it moves before drilling/tapping.
The cam is a bit small and the KDW's even though a great street tire will not shine on the road course after they get some heat in them. If you have the coin get another set of rims with dedicated track tires. If you can drive to the track get either Toyo RA-1's or a very strong contender the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires (I pulled 1.13g's on these). Both will wear well and are streetable race tires. This would be good for the first season. Once you determine how serious you want to get you get track only tires next year.
For on track only tires that never see street driving the DOT R-compound Hoosier RS304 and Kumho V710's are great..... Then a Dunlop slick, Good Year slick, or Avon slick or similar tires would be good choices.
Get a good alignment as stated and try to find what settings are used by local racers (ie NASAProRacing.com CMC challenge (camaro/mustang racing) spec). A bit of negative camber up front will do wonders for turn in responsiveness. Maybe some camber/caster plates as well.
Use the first session to truly feel comfortable with the car making sure all suspension/brakes/cooling systems are functioning properly. Try to learn some of the idiosynchrosies of the car and every lap begin to gain more corner entry speed and not drift the car just yet. Clean lines and proper timing with romping on the gas when exiting corners are the keys to low times. Be aware of others around you at all times and use the entire course... meaning when entering corners have one side as close to or on the red/white stripped birms indicated good points to reference.
Once you have the lines of the track down and braking points you can increase speed and feel the limits of the tires (slight 4 wheel drift) going around corners and judge maximum speeds. Listen to instructors and follow others that seem to know the course well to learn the line and braking zones. You will learn them quickly and the name of the game is control.
From there... simply increase speeds having good control and awareness of others and your braking/accelleration potential... then bradda.... go rip up the track.
Stay hydrated and get a good nights sleep the night before. An accurate tire pressure guage is important as is a fire extinguisher. Make sure your tire pressures are at a recommended level either by someone with similar setup/tires racing or call the manufacturer/local road race alignment shop.
Have fun and be safe. Keep an eye on coolant temps and smoking brake rotors during every session...
Remember that you are drag racing between every corner still!
Last edited by gnx7; 12-21-2005 at 02:50 AM.
12-21-2005, 05:55 PM
#11
Thanks guys for all the great info. One thing I did not think of that gnx7 said, fire extinguisher 
. I will buying one of these before the next track day. Last thing I want is to watch my baby burn to the ground.
Will Fiske make a good wheel for my application? Pricey, but I do more show than go.
. I will buying one of these before the next track day. Last thing I want is to watch my baby burn to the ground.Will Fiske make a good wheel for my application? Pricey, but I do more show than go.