By all means go have fun in American Iron.

I'll enjoy mine

 

Nice car ...

 

from the veiled insults to direct ones... how amusing

 

Wow

That just shows me that on the track you loose your cool and concentration when someone challenges you or passes you. Be glad were not in your race class you would loose bad to all these rookies.

Here's my camaros, the first shot is all Mitchmtx would see of that car on the track.
The blue one has 700hp.
and can pull about .91gs turning and 1.1gs stoping.
It needs to be 1" lower.
I know TT's is not the best choice for the track but they are duel ball bearing oil and water cooled turbos at only 8lbs of boost. Dont seem to bother the TT Porsches and such.

I think all that anyone was trying to say is a camaro is a muscle car and a vett, Miata ect. is a sports car and might be more competitive for the same money invested.

 

LOL ... it's nice to see you guys have a grand sense of humor. Keyboard pounding at it's best. There are no veiled insults. I've responded every time with tech from my own experience. simple enough.

Just from a single post on the internet? Wow back at you ... You certainly can extract a lot of information about another driver. I'm impressed.

I've been beaten by a lot of cars. Never claimed to have the fastest out there. But I bet I do have one of the lowest cost to build and lowest cost to maintenance platforms. Remember, first poster's requirements were cheap ... Low costs mean lots of fun.

Sweet 2nd gen, BTW ... I had an 80 TA and regret selling it. 2nd gens hold a special place in this ********'s heart. Where do you run it? It's common practice to put those you have in issue with in the wall? That's not very cool ...

In my series, that would get you quite a fine and suspension. They don't put up with folks that can't keep their head ...

 

Now I remember why I don't frequent here too often!

Mitch--I feel your frustration with this post!

 

No frustration ... everyone is entitled to an opinion. I typically learn something from volleying internet packets back and forth.

One thing I leaned a long time ago is that it's just the internet ...

 

Lotus Exige and just call it a day. You'll be kicking some ***!! No seriously just work with the F-body. The LS1 engines are bountiful, good quality with alot of different avenues you can take power wise.

Twin turbo V6 hmmmm!!

 

This thread has really been fun to read. I have enjoyed some of the trash talking while trying to get to the meat of the topic and how it relates to particular cars and my situation.
Mitch-"You know ... this thread was about getting into a race car, not getting into some brainless ****, goo-goo eyed over someone's car used to replace their dickless anatomy." That is just greatness.
BBfirebirds situation is similar to mine. I am toying with the idea of getting a track car. I don't know his experience with road courses but mine is only one NASA experience. I realized that I really need to learn how to drive a car and feel that should be a big influence on the decision.
What type of car would everyone suggest being the best type to use to properly learn how to drive. I want to learn how to really get the most out of a car and not use the car as a crutch for lack of abilities.
I am all across the board when it comes to deciding what kind of vehicle to get. Here are my thoughts.
A turnkey ready to race type car that could be used in a racing class if I decide that is the direction I would want to head. This would probably be something like CMC.
Ex race car that could be used for open road racing and events such as an ex SCCA C4, C5 or camaro, mustang, firebird.
Used C5 that I could use on the street and change out the seat and tires at the track.
BMW 3 series that I could use the same way as a used C5 but also possibly function as a daily driver?
Another thing BBfirebird said was having no concrete budget. That budget should include room for repairs, maintenance, tires, etc. All of that should be a factor and the cost and ease of all the maintenance and repairs. Also should think about just having a trailer and towing the car.
One last thought is safety. After almost killing my self in a boat wreck it is something I consider more. I really thought about that during my first ride in a 2006 Vette on hoosiers as I was sliding to the edge of the track over 100 mph with a guy I had known for 1 minute. It was a great experience, great driver and great guy. But it made me think about how safe that car would be in a rollover compared to a car with a full rollcage and safety harnesses.
Thanks for everyones opinions.
Bryan

 

That's an important piece, and can be quite an expensive part of your budget if you figure in seats, harnesses, firesuit, HANS, etc.....can lead to a few thousand dollars quickly....something that I for one know I don't want to say I wish I had this or that when I crash. A few years ago, I had a ride in a near stock (safety-wise) Firehawk at Pocono. A friend crashed his M3 hard (100+mph) that day and got away with broken ankle and trashed car. Credits the HANS to his existence today and the well built cage with NASCAR style door bars. Since that day, I do not go for rides with anybody unless they have something at least equal or better to the safety of my own car.---Rides aren't as fun as they were 4 years ago....when I was slow and they seemed so fast!

 

Sorry about that......Mitchntx.

Very interesting and spunky post for once in the mostly hum drum road race section.

Here is another shot of the 71.
Black cherry paint photoshop watercolor...

 

I drove the wheels off my car chasing a Lotus Elise. Never could keep up. And he had a passenger in the car with him!!!!

That is definitely one sweet ride.

 

No worries, mate. We're here for the same reasons. It's just the internet and if one can't take a little of what they dish, they should stick to surfing **** sites, right?

And sometimes, in order to get a response, one has to ask or post something contraversial. I guess it's that media background bubbling to the surface ...

Like I said ... the 71 is a sweet, sweet ride.

Tell me more about it.

 

Hows this sound?I'm gonna go 3rd gen. It won't be a daily driver,but won't be full-on racer at first either. I like the lighter weight of the 3rd gens(no abs,no airbags,etc),the rear suspension is identical to a 4th gen.From the factory,I thought all my Irocs handled better than my 99(99 rides a lil nicer)

Basic Mods-
-Full chromoly suspension pieces w/ rodends(wolfe or sjm)
-Global west trac-link for a torque-arm(open to suggestions)
-Rack and pinion conversion
-6spd manual
-Some sort of cage-6 point to start with,can always redo
-Aftermarket strut design,like the spohn coilover conversion
-chromoly front lower a-arms
-Corbeau seats w/harness(remeber the part time street thing)
-weight reduction where possible(aluminum rad.,emissions delete,etc. Not sure about a/c and radio becuase I want to have fun on nice weekends for a while
-Aftermarket brakes/wheels tires
-Konis/swaybars, possibly coilovers

This car should be a blast on the streets,but perform exceptionally well at the track,thats what I'm hoping for. I will be doing all the work,so labor won't really be a factor. Also if I decide,i can always take the car to a higher level if I choose to do so,I just want to start out with solid suspension and chassis setup. What do you guys think?

I do have racing experience,i raced mini sprints and sprint cars for 8 years.so I know how to build and set up a car,but I've never taken an f-body to this level(i've owned 6 or 7 so far). This will be my bad-***,not super street friendly toy car that I have wanted for some time(b4 wife and kids come along-lol)

 

TTSSZ; where in Joyzee are you (approx.)??

 

3rd gen is a good choice. I don't know a lot about their handling characteristics or how they respond to certain changes in suspension changes. It should be a great platform, though.

I don't see camber/caster plates in that list of goodies ...

You should come visit Motorsports Ranch Spet. 9/10 and introduce yourself.

 

You guys are just crazy saying z06 < f-body. I went from a 2000 Trans Am with over 550rwhp and a **** load more tq to a 2004 Z06 with only an intake. If I had to pick between the two I would go z06 all the way. Which handles, brakes, and acts better on the road and track? THE Z06. The damn trans am felt like a damn tank compared to the Z06 when I was taking turns driving them for awhile.

 

I have owned both, over the span of 10 years. Ive had an LT1 Z28 mildly modified, and a 98 LS1 HEAVILY Modified. I have been around GM's product for a long time.

My 98 TA was built to the teeth, besides the fact that it put down 500/440 rw (9 psi, mac mid lengths, thunder cam) it had extensive suspension work.

LG springs (progressive rate eibachs) bilstein shocks, PA racing mild steel k member and a arms -40 lbs (-1.2 camber), Spohn LCA's with LCA relocation brackets, Mac subframes, Moser 12 bolt (3.73's), Dynabatt battery, Suncoast ram air hood (10 lbs lighter), ILE sways w/ poly bushings,AFS ZR1 replicas with 315's, 275's Dunlop SP8000's

I had taken practically everything out of the car to include not only the back seat, belts, spare etc, but also the sound deadening. It weighed 3440 with a few gallons of gas, probably closer to 3600 with a full tank.

Performance: 11.9@119 mph with a 2.06 60, I have had it up to 180 believe it or not, It was insanely quick from a roll, I was running 2k+ 600's, and was dead even with a 2001 Yamaha R6

Lateral: .94 G measured with G tech pro, which is pretty accurate

Economy: 12 city, 24 fwy, 16-17 observed


Now for comparison:

Stock 02 Z06: 12.6@113.5mph w/ 2.05 60., 1 G lateral (not measured) 160 top end, 16 city/30 fwy observed 23 mpg

Modified, my budget in this situation was considerably less, I had $20k in the TA when all was said and done, I got about $10k in the Z now.

Patriot heads, FMS F13 (228/232 .595/.585 112), LG LT's. vararam intake, ASP UD pulley(420/398 rw) 04 shocks, lowered on stock bolts, dynabatt (this time relocated to the trunk), exedy single clutch, Hurst, DTE strut brace, hardened output shaft, Nitto 555 R2's

Performance: BEFORE I swapped to the FMS cam (400/385 rw), I ran a 12.4@117.5 mph w a 2.15 60, at that time I also had 65 lbs of stereo equipment that I have since removed, and the stock battery (+85 lbs altogether)

I havent gotten any new times, but Im estimating with a similar or slightly better 60 ft the increase of 20 rwhp and the reduction of almost 100 lbs would deduct 3 tenths and add 3 mph respectively, so possibly a 12.1@119-120 mph with a 2.10 60......

Lateral: an astonishing 1.27 G, with Nitto 555 R2's of course, wouldve been able to get close to 1 G with these tires on the f body for sure.

Weight: on a scale, 3040 with 6-7 gallons of fuel, with a full tank around 3100 lbs, thats a weight difference of 500 lbs vs the completely gutted TA. Now I did have 65 lbs of blower, 30 lbs of 12 bolt, and 10-15 lbs of subframes on the TA. All of that was necessary, the torsional strength of an f body's frame is the equivalent of an Chevy S10 (I managed to bend my frame before I had the subframes welded on), and the 10 bolt cant handle any more than 300 rwhp.

I am still on stock drivetrain in the C5 with the exception of the clutch and output shaft. It accelerates as well as my TA did with 80 less rwhp.

A H/C C5 Z is very formidable, this is an excellent combination as the dollar per HP is low, the weight is kept low, and the powerband is very non linear. The M12 is also geared very aggressively, a buddy of mine has an f body with 4.10's and we are shifting at almost the same points up until 4th gear, his goes out to 125 or so.

Observed fuel economy post H/C: city 12, 26 fwy, 20 combined

The majority of all of the aformentioned modifications were done by myself, with the exception of tuning, and clutch work. So Im not your typical "i can afford a vette, I can afford a shop to do the work" kind of owner. I have seen first hand what works, and what doesnt through trial and error on both the y and f body platforms.

A properly set up f body on a road course can handle almost as good as a stock C5 Z to a certain extent, there is no getting around the archaic solid axle.

A mildly built C5 Z will absolutely RAPE a built f body on a road course with both platforms driven by experienced drivers. If this wasnt the case the camaro would be winning all of the GT class races (the C5 R is the 5th time world champion of Le Mans).

I have pics of both my TA, my Z and a busa I built and raced for a brief period here on myspace.


http://www.myspace.com/21270983

 

So what do you think, rob a bank and get this....



Just look at it.



(Im in northern central NJ at rt80 and 15)

 

TT ... Very nice ... has it seen any track time?

For the others? <yawn>

Gimme real world TRACK TIME comparisons, not some reading off of a funky widget. And SOTP "feel" is less than subjective. Every knows that handling improves as the wallet lightens.

We're talking about a real track car, not a "built" car to admire in a driveway. A friend refers to those cars as driveway jewelry and really fast while bench racing.