bbfirebird

Hey all, haven't posted on this site in a while since I got rid of my Firebird (had a baby, had to get a truck). Anyway, I'd like to get a car for road race use, preferably able to drive to and from the track (legally ). I also want to do this as relatively cheap as I can, yet have a car that will perform very well on a track. This has brought me to a few possibilities: C5, C4, LS1 f-body, or LT1 f-body (maybe even a gutted late 3rd gen f-body). Obviously the C5 would be much better in terms of suspension and chassis, but dollar-for-dollar, a 3rd gen or LT1 f-body would be much cheaper, leaving a lot of extra money for mods.

Basically, my question(s) is- how do the chassis and suspensions compare between 3rd gen f-body, 4th gen f-body, C4, and C5? How much would have to go into an f-body to get it to perform on par with a Corvette (can it even be done)?

Also, what would you do if you were in my situation? I don't have a concrete budget, but like I said I want a good vehicle, spending the least amount I need to.

95FbFormula

iTrader: (25)

I really do not know the suspension differences but if i could not go with the C5 i would go with a C4 even a 97 C4 they have the LS1 im pretty sure.

Urban Legend

iTrader: (5)

No such thing as a 97 C4.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

If I had a few extra dollars laying around, I would snag this car ....

http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=7520

I know it's a V6 car, but that thing could be stripped down and weigh close to 2700lbs ... easily.

The motor makes decent power so the HP to WT ratio would be close if not better than a V8 car.

JOSE REBS

Last Year For C4 Was In 96 It Came With An Lt-1 Unless It Was Collectors Edition Or A Grand Sport Then It Would Be The Lt4. First Year For C5 Was 97 That Came With The Ls1. ONLY THE 6SP COLLECTORS EDITION WERE LT4

phatkat

an iroc-z would be a good starting point. It has an excellent stock suspention, I think its the best outta all the fbodys.

Ojustracing

iTrader: (4)

Nah Mitch he need this:
01 Firebird Hard Top Arctic White.
ls-1, 6 speed
Power windows and locks, AC
Cruise, tilt, ABS, No traction control.
Cloth interior, manual seats
CD player, only option on car is the Power steering cooler.
59,000+ miles
Vin:2G2FV22G412118171

Good stuff:
17/9.5 wheels, 275/40/17 Currently KD.
Corvette zo-6 front brakes, Bob B. Brackets, Carbotech front pads, Serven Brake Ducts currently installed, Extra Air dam
Koni SA all the way round, Eibach Pro-kits.
Strano Bars 35/22 05'
Rod ended LCA/Phb 04'
Lg SFC with Drivers V-brace 04'
UMI Tranny Mounted TA 05'

Engine: July 05 55,000 miles
Tea 1.5 5.3 Heads
222/222 581 114+2 cam
Pushrods, Comp lifters, New Lifter Holders, ls2 timing chain, new oil pump.
Gm MLS gaskets, ARP head bolts. 180 stat, 30lb Fms Injectors.
Pacesetter headers(7/06), ORY(7/06), Moroso Sprial Flow muffler, with GMMG
UD pulley's, Katech manual tensioner, Ngk plugs, Lid, Ported TB, Free ram air mod.
Compression ratio is about 10.7 to 10.8 heads are unmilled.
Old numbers 398hp/409 Torque. 12.8 afr. haven't been back to dyno for a retune yet.
Poly, tranny mount and drivers side engine mount.
I even have Oil Analysis reports on the engine too.

Tranny:
rebuilt in July 04, New 5/6 gr set, steel shift fork, carbon fiber rings, bearings. 51,500 miles tranny broke 500 miles after the clutch, first time on got on it after the Clutch. Lost 5/6 gear.
Spec Alum Flywheel, Spec stage 3 Clutch, drill mod, adjustable master cyl. 51,000 miles.
Pro-5 shifter, alum LG pedal covers(brake and gas)

Rear end: 8/02
was rebuilt at 21812 miles. Replaced Torsion unit, Gears and bearings.

Interior: Clean and Non smoker
5 point autopower Cage
6 point Drivers side harness
Rear seats are removed(I still have all parts) and I have original rear plastic panels where the cage is mounted. Previous owner bought used ones so the original are unmodified.

Exterior:
Car is in Great shape. Only Problem is, there is a small quarter size dent in the hood, from a small tree branch. I had plans of putting a ram air hood on it and haven't got it fixed. There are some small stone chips in the front of the car.(Normal wear and tear).

I've only been to the drag strip once with the car. This was before the engine work was done. 13.5 108 with 2.2 60ft.

I bought the car in Nov of 03 with 34,000 miles aprox. This car is a relaxed cruiser on highway. I would have no problem hoping in the car and driving to California.

15,000 obo

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Selling your life there John?

I feel your pain. I had my 98 tucked in the back of my shop for over a year before I decided it was time to let it go.

It was setup about like yours and I was able to get almost as much as you are asking ... not quite, but it was a 98 and had a lot more miles on the ODO.

I sure do miss that car from time to time ...

You should be able to get that out of it ... good luck!

Ojustracing

iTrader: (4)

Mitch yeah you are right about that. Daycare this yr and school Cost are just flat out killing me. 1250 month.

I might be able to swing the car for the winter but once it snows i cant move it so it stuck until spring.

I think its too cheap but I havent gone on the OPEN market listing the car. The funny thing is they only made like 300 stick Formula of these car in 01. When they made like 7500 ws-6. But we shall see!!!! Looking around I found some Production numbers. 1037 Formula 849 of them were t-tops. So there are only 188 hard top formula running around, would love to find the color break down. I guess I should bump the price up or hold on to it for 20 yr and run it through Barret jackson auction for $100k. I might have to reconsider the price. LOL

Hey you not racing this weekend?? i have to shoot you as pm tonight about somehthing will talk later. John

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Or call ... PM sent

Ojustracing

iTrader: (4)

Mitch good to talk to you again..

John

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Good luck on the new "adventure". Remember the little people ....

gnx7

iTrader: (28)

My car is for sale:
2800lbs wet with 440rwhp
pulled 1.13g's (285/30/18 MichPSCups)
49.5% front/50.5% rear

Me driving with 4 track days under my belt:
2:04 Thunderhill
1:54 Infineon
daily driver (no a/c or p/s) and have put about 20K reliable miles on it.
$24K obo (Stock brakes and sway bar on the car now... can install BBK of your choice)
http://209.177.55.37/scc.htm

http://norcal.nasa-tt.com/corbett-info.html

Comes with CCW 18x10.5's and new Hoosier road race 285/30/18's.
Mechanically sound however need to either fix ABS or ditch it. Paint is fine from 5 feet; however not show paint. 250+ hours into this conversion. Very very fast.

Reason for sale: building a widebody LS7 powered FD RX-7 next. 550rwhp/2800lbs

TTSSZ

iTrader: (8)

Find a 02 zo6.
You wont need nothing but new tires all the time.
They go semi cheep these days considering what you get for the money.

Ojustracing

iTrader: (4)

That is not correct. I was able too drive one back to back on the race track. My bird was 2 sec a lap quicker(1.5 mile track) on worn out 20k+ street tires. If i had the same tire the vette did it would of been even larger.
I then got to drive the same car on multiple tracks(8), skid pad(wet/dry) and highway driving(4500) miles in 7 days. My conclusion was I want my Bird. I have far less than what a 02 zo-6 would cost. Now with that said the vette did stop way better than my car. But this is my real life opinion.

John

Ps when driving the vette the car feels like you are Flying. My bird feels slow and more controlable. Even the vette owner agreed that my car feels slow. With him driving my car he was only 2 sec his zo-6 times.

Tainted

iTrader: (9)

a porsche of some kind maybe an older 944 or boxster

bbfirebird

Funny you mention that, that was the car that got me interested in road racing in the first place. I did the "Z06 Experience" at Bondurant, and fell in love. That car is a beast on the track, especially with the little add-ons they give the cars- Baer brakes, Borla exhaust, and a roll cage.

But I kind of agree with Ojustracing, for the price of a used Z06, I could buy an early LS1 f-bod and mod the hell out of it to run circles around the Vette.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

John and I have had this conversation, comparing a decent F-car vs a C5 Z06.

I race a CMC Firebird (limited HP and suspension mods) and instruct with Texas Driving Experience (www.texasdrivingexperience.com) which have Z06 vettes as track cars.

There is no doubt that a Vette is a lot more refined. A Vette is a great platform and is fast right out of the box. But you just can't wrestle a Vette. The window of oppurtunity for recovery is extremely narrow, compared to an F-Car. When the Vette has had enough driver input, you know it real quick.

For a driver at my level, I need a little more time to react. I'm no Boris Said.

A well prepped F-Car can be as fast on a road course as a Z06, even with a few mods.

TTSSZ

iTrader: (8)

I ran SS's, C5's and Z06's when they still had the Justine Bell Driving school in fla. at Moroso race track. The zo6's were ALOT better then the SS's.
It does not take that much money to do the f-bod suspension to handel like a vett. Why not bite the bullet, get the vett drive it as is. In a year put the same amount of suspension money into the vett and have a track car that will stomp even a decked out SS. Then your also ripping apart vipers and porches.

Mind you... This is from a di hard Camaro fan.
I have two, both built with road racing / street driving setups.
But being on the track the same day with both.....
vett is sharp and nimble....
Camaro. you have to ease it into the main straight, waiting to get it straight enough to hit it to the floor, the Z06 your on the gas, hard fast and often.
Mind you they were stock, just race brake pads.

longdaddy

if you want to build road course car on the cheap, go with older porsche or even a miata. the power of the engine is going to be almost irrelevant, until you get really really good at everything else on the track.
plus, you will worry less about trashing stuff and having to replace a bunch of expensive parts or getting damage on your nice paint or cracking the fiberglass panels.

to those saying that f-body is better or as good as a corvette on the roadcourse... I just don't buy it and I owned both.

corvette gives you plenty of warning when it is about to take off, and then some. I am yet to see a vette spun out on the track, and I've seen plenty of porcshes, hondas, bmws etc go through the turn tail first.

not to mention you get to keep all the comforts and the only thing you need to do to get on the track is to add some oil.

if I would be getting a dedicated road race car on a really tight budget, I would go with 944 (85.5+). If I had some change to spare, I would consider c5 FRC or a coupe with z51.

Now, if you want a dual track/daily driver car nothing comes close to z06 in terms of what you get for your money.

Do not get me wrong, I love f-bodies, I owned one and may own another some day. They are just not built for the roadcourse. Sure you can mod the hell out of it with the only purpose to be good on the track, but then how much of an f-body you got left there?