Drifting
#21
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The fact that it takes skill DOES not make it into a sport. You can be the best at LOOSING traction (what drifting is) and still the "judge" decides against you. Its stupid and BORING. It will eventually fade away....unlike drag racing, autox....and in general REAL motorsports....
#22
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Originally Posted by chaman
The fact that it takes skill DOES not make it into a sport. You can be the best at LOOSING traction (what drifting is) and still the "judge" decides against you. Its stupid and BORING. It will eventually fade away....unlike drag racing, autox....and in general REAL motorsports....
#23
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Originally Posted by A502slo
Well sounds like you have never tired it.
Originally Posted by A502slo
We had Penske make us a triple adjustable coil over for the caddy. And spent many hours testing it out with them to get it right. So please understand what it is before you talk.
Originally Posted by A502slo
I am asking to respect what people like and what they do.
Originally Posted by A502slo
with Dodge, Pointiac and Ford to name a few getting more into the sport i dont see it going anywhere. There is a also a Z06 been made with Peneske for next year. So you have a viper, mustang, gto/Solistice, charger and now a Z06 into next year, along with a few other Domestic cars.
To be perfectly honest, what put it over the top for me and proved in my mind drifting is an exhibition and not a real competition is when the skilled drivers began using tires that emmitted colored smoke. Now tell me that isn't "show-boating" in an attempt to draw the judge's attention and away from the "skill".
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SO.........Who else is for stopping the pissing match? Lets get to the TECH!
Until a drifting category is made, I was wondering about the tech side of drifitng. What mods would be done to an f-body(or CTSV, Mustang, Vette,etc)? I assume weight reduction is key, but is the car built to oversteer? I assume the front needs 2 b real dialed in. Do they intentionally put an oversized rear sway bar on? A spool is needed, right? What R the tricks?
Oh, I found z28evans on here...he is associated w Bubba Drift. I remembered reading about the Bubba Drift El Camino (actually 86 GMC Caballero w an LS1+magnacharger). I asked him to chime in on this.
Until a drifting category is made, I was wondering about the tech side of drifitng. What mods would be done to an f-body(or CTSV, Mustang, Vette,etc)? I assume weight reduction is key, but is the car built to oversteer? I assume the front needs 2 b real dialed in. Do they intentionally put an oversized rear sway bar on? A spool is needed, right? What R the tricks?
Oh, I found z28evans on here...he is associated w Bubba Drift. I remembered reading about the Bubba Drift El Camino (actually 86 GMC Caballero w an LS1+magnacharger). I asked him to chime in on this.
Last edited by subtlez28; 12-11-2006 at 08:52 AM.
#26
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Yes, he's a fountain of information.
I know those El Camino guys as well.
I know those El Camino guys as well.
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As far as tech:
The biggest drawback with f-bodies for drifting is their lack of steering angle. More steering angle means more sideways, and you can keep from spinning as easily. It is not easy to get more steering angle due to clearences around the subframe / control arms, etc.
My Camaro (LS1 / T56 swap) not the best photo -
![](http://www.bubbadrift.com/album/albums/userpics/10001/normal_yappa-ng%204.jpg)
very built suspension:
![](http://www.bubbadrift.com/album/albums/batchadd/FDchi/normal_gallery129%252Ejpg.jpg)
Drifting is not for everyone, it is fun and a good way to learn car control. I auto-x & drag race as well.
James
#27
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Originally Posted by nfa
I think that about sums it up right there. The same way most fbody guys dont do car shows, or sit around parking lots at night checking out each other's clear corner lamps. Most of us just prefer going fast and racing. And are you trying to insinuate that fbody drivers are just about straight line? Many of us autox and road race too.
#28
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James ... I appreciate a mature post and respect what you've accomplished ...
Ignorance is lack of knowledge, not differing opinions.
Please explain to this ignorant person HOW "the cleanest line" or "the most sideways" is measured? Give it to me in measurable terms.
Originally Posted by ddnspider
if u ever bothered to sit down and actually watch a real even,D1 for instance,you'll hear the announcer prolli explain what the rules and things theyre judged on,ie who can keep the cleanest line,who can have the car the most
sideways through a turn while staying in control.
<snip>
they assume because its not "hardcore muscle" it has no merit?Thats called ignorance.
sideways through a turn while staying in control.
<snip>
they assume because its not "hardcore muscle" it has no merit?Thats called ignorance.
Please explain to this ignorant person HOW "the cleanest line" or "the most sideways" is measured? Give it to me in measurable terms.
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Originally Posted by mitchntx
James ... I appreciate a mature post and respect what you've accomplished ...
Ignorance is lack of knowledge, not differing opinions.
Please explain to this ignorant person HOW "the cleanest line" or "the most sideways" is measured? Give it to me in measurable terms.
Ignorance is lack of knowledge, not differing opinions.
Please explain to this ignorant person HOW "the cleanest line" or "the most sideways" is measured? Give it to me in measurable terms.
#30
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I agree ... thank goodness no one is like me. And for what it's worth, my degree is in illustration and graphic design. So, I can be creative.
You cannot have it both ways. It's either a contest or an exhibition.
One is measured with tangible results, the other is judged.
And it's easy to see differences when the spectrum is opposite ends as you describe. Unless there is 1 stud and the rest dorks, how is the "contest" measured when there is a track full of drifting studs?
Or are the majority of the drifters dorks and therefore the judging easy?
You cannot have it both ways. It's either a contest or an exhibition.
One is measured with tangible results, the other is judged.
And it's easy to see differences when the spectrum is opposite ends as you describe. Unless there is 1 stud and the rest dorks, how is the "contest" measured when there is a track full of drifting studs?
Or are the majority of the drifters dorks and therefore the judging easy?
#32
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as much as we like, some people will never change. some people will never give anything new a chance. thats their loss. guess the rest of us will get sideways on our own. there is no point to carry this on. anyone who wants a rush, give it a try. the rest of you carry on with your " living life a quarter mile at a time."
#33
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Please explain to this ignorant person HOW "the cleanest line" or "the most sideways" is measured? Give it to me in measurable terms.
The more angle the better. When judging the cars in tandem (two cars running at the same time) it is easy to compare the angles. When the cars are sideways next to each other (parallel) then they would be considered even. If someone has more angle they would get more points.
Speed. The faster to better. Some events use radar guns to measure entry speeds. But, when two cars are going in tandem it is easy to see the speed differences. If someone is pulling away from the other car they are going faster - more points to them.
Style. This is made up of a few different things. Being on the gas (lots of tire smoke) is good. Making a lot of corrections to your line by way of throttle or steering is a negative and deducts points.
Often Judges have a score card where they grade the different areas. Some events have it organized where each judge grades one area. Some series use a "drift box" device which measures speed and angle to give some concrete numbers. Judging in motorsport is strange and makes a lot of people uncomfortable. It also can leave room for doubt and disagreement about results. But for the most part (95%) of the time it is very obvious to those who know to score the matches. The crowds generally know who won before the judges say anything.
Drifting has a bad rap for many reasons. One of the main reasons (in my opinion) for its views are that the demographics that brought drifting into the mainstream are the same people who are often looked down apon by people of other motorsports back grounds.
FWIW - I built the el camino for auto-xing for giggles. I let a friend take it to a drift event. I didn't know what drifting was and thought that it was stupid, but i'm game for a lot of things. I had a blast watching - it is one of the most spectator friendly motorsports i have ever seen.
I plan on going to a drift event in Houston this sunday with my Camaro just for giggles. I've got some old tires and i'm going to play with throwing my car around.
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I'm not doing the pro stuff anymore, it was to expensive for me, even with sponsorship help. Was fun though.
If anyone has any questions i'll try to answer them as long as things stay civil, and i have the free time.
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Thanks,
James
#35
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Originally Posted by subtlez28
Ok, so tech is out of the question? Personal attacks should have there own sub category.....
Originally Posted by jamesSS
as much as we like, some people will never change. some people will never give anything new a chance. thats their loss. guess the rest of us will get sideways on our own. there is no point to carry this on. anyone who wants a rush, give it a try. the rest of you carry on with your " living life a quarter mile at a time."
Originally Posted by z28evans
Drifting follows the same line that you would for roadracing, etc. One of the Judging criteria is how close you follow the line
Originally Posted by z28evans
The more angle the better.
Originally Posted by z28evans
Speed. The faster to better. Some events use radar guns to measure entry speeds.
Originally Posted by z28evans
Style. This is made up of a few different things. Being on the gas (lots of tire smoke) is good. Making a lot of corrections to your line by way of throttle or steering is a negative and deducts points.
Originally Posted by z28evans
Judging in motorsport is strange and makes a lot of people uncomfortable. It also can leave room for doubt and disagreement about results. But for the most part (95%) of the time it is very obvious to those who know to score the matches. The crowds generally know who won before the judges say anything.
Originally Posted by z28evans
Drifting has a bad rap for many reasons. One of the main reasons (in my opinion) for its views are that the demographics that brought drifting into the mainstream are the same people who are often looked down apon by people of other motorsports back grounds.
Those of us in "motorsports" don't view anything that requires the man upstairs to declare a winner as a contest or a competition. We prefer to decide who wins by when we cross that white line stretched across the track. I think a lot of folks who believe the way I do take serious exception to drifting because of the venues it uses and the type folks it attracts.
Fast and Furious didn't help your cause along much either ...
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James, I know you take your "sport" seriously and I very much appreciate your posting in an attempt to clarify and educate. You have done your niche proud.
If more could be like you, then maybe drifting wouldn't be looked at so negatively.
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For me, this is where it falls outside of the realm of competition. The more you slide it sideways the more speed you scrub and lose time. This is where it becomes more for show than go.
I am uncomfortable with having my on-track performance judged rather than decided by crossing a common white line in an order.
James, I know you take your "sport" seriously and I very much appreciate your posting in an attempt to clarify and educate. You have done your niche proud.
I was very involved with drifting for several years, and can help with any questions that anyone has.
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#39
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Mitch, I don't think many people would disagree with you when saying that Drifting is not racing type competition. It is more of an exhibition, and there is nothing wrong with that. It takes specific technical setups and driver skills to control these vehicles, so that is one thing that it has in common with racing a vehicle.
I've seen a few drifting events, they are kind of fun to watch, especially the more powerful cars. I think we all used to enjoy doing donuts in the parking lot at some time in our youth, lol. I've seen 1000 whp Nissan Skylines roasting all four tires at the same time, that was cool to see.
One GOOD thing about drifting is that several of the 'ricer' kids now appreciate rear-wheel-drive vehicles. I'm sure all of us on this site were tired of these idiotic kids praising front-wheel-drive and how they like being the underdog. Then they realize their shitbox Civics and Integras can't drift very well (no power, no rwd) so they are building rwd cars. Some of them are even moving into domestic V8 cars because of this sport. Those are the good benefits of drifting, they indirectly educate the ricers who grew up watching F&F, thinking front-drive was cool. lol
We will not create a "Drifting Forum" here however. There really isn't enough activity here to justify it (yet?). You guys can post your drifting threads in this forum however, as long as they are technical in nature.
James, where is this Houston drifting contest at on Sunday? Time?
I've seen a few drifting events, they are kind of fun to watch, especially the more powerful cars. I think we all used to enjoy doing donuts in the parking lot at some time in our youth, lol. I've seen 1000 whp Nissan Skylines roasting all four tires at the same time, that was cool to see.
One GOOD thing about drifting is that several of the 'ricer' kids now appreciate rear-wheel-drive vehicles. I'm sure all of us on this site were tired of these idiotic kids praising front-wheel-drive and how they like being the underdog. Then they realize their shitbox Civics and Integras can't drift very well (no power, no rwd) so they are building rwd cars. Some of them are even moving into domestic V8 cars because of this sport. Those are the good benefits of drifting, they indirectly educate the ricers who grew up watching F&F, thinking front-drive was cool. lol
We will not create a "Drifting Forum" here however. There really isn't enough activity here to justify it (yet?). You guys can post your drifting threads in this forum however, as long as they are technical in nature.
James, where is this Houston drifting contest at on Sunday? Time?
#40
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Originally Posted by z28evans
I would really like to do some wheel-to-wheel racing (CMC or AI?), but don't have the money for it.
I can put you in a reliable and baseline sorted 4th gen CMC car for about $10K.
I spent about $3500 this year on maintenance, registration and travel. It just doesn't get any cheaper than that ...