z28evans

iTrader: (4)

Depends on the cars. The imports can often change the tierods. On the El Camino i shortened the tierod attachment on the spindle (cut and welded the spindle), along with modifying the steering stops. This increased the steering angle and sped the steering up. I have not looked at 4th gens, but on my 3rd gen i have not modified the steering. On 3rd gens the subframe and control arms look to be a limiting factor and would require some fabrication to get more steering angle - but i haven't spent much time trying to figure it out.

Drifting has turned many 'ricers' away from the neon-lit civics towards the inexpensive rwd cars (240sx's) - and they are building them to perform and drive. This is a good trend i believe.

I've spent too much time and money racing (drifting) the last few years, so now i'm paying bills and doing family things. My car projects are being built from low budget parts that i already have, and i'm working on projects for money. Maybe in a year or so i will look at getting into an organized series.


Sunday, December 17th at Gulf Greyhound Park in LaMarque, TX.

Pre-registration is $75 per driver (TONS OF SEAT TIME GUARANTEED!)

Registration on the day of the event is $100 so be sure to pre-register!

Free to spectators!

Schedule:
8:00 AM-9:00 AM Registration and tech
9:00 AM drivers meeting
9:30 AM First car out
12:00 PM Lunch break (Quiet time for dogs)
1:00 PM Practice resumes
3:00 PM Competition begins

Dont miss out on a chance to drift in a safe and controlled environment!

Also don't miss your chance to get pointers from Texas's best drifters, Several Formula Drift competitors will be there to help instruct.

Please direct any questions to alex@dailydrifter.com or john@dailydrifter.com or you can contact John at 713-882-2338.

maps and more info:
http://dailydrifter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=610

main Texas Drift organization: www.dailydrifter.com

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Tony, you are the man ...

I guess the issue I have is that this section becomes a dumping ground for niche, vehicle related activities that take place on a closed course.

Drifting, figure 8 racing, dirt track racing, bobsled racing, horse racing could all go in here, if technically written.

Would those subjects be OK to post in the Drag Racing section as well?

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

It isn't like this specific forum is too busy anyways Mitch

There is plenty of room in here for all sorts of vehicle sports. This site is based mostly on drag racing, and those forums are very active here. I don't see a problem with guys discussing drifting tech in here, if you don't want to read it just don't click on the thread.

Maybe we should rename this forum "Almost Anything that doesn't go straight"

nfa

......

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

I like it ...

I didn't think it would be appropriate any where else, just trying to make a point, really.

Several of "us" have been doing our best to build this section up so that it DID get traffic. I guess www.frrax.com will be the site of choice, though.

I can walk away knowing I tried.

Nine Ball

iTrader: (38)

In 5 years.....

816 threads in Road-Racing
16,000 in the two drag racing forums

BIG difference.

FFRAX looks like a busy site, so it appears the choice was made much earlier than today

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

No reason not to have both, but I certainly understand.

FRRAX, like LS1Tech, was spawned from LS1.com

subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

.....
.....



Just bustin your ***** mitchntx

"Depends on the cars. The imports can often change the tierods. On the El Camino i shortened the tierod attachment on the spindle (cut and welded the spindle), along with modifying the steering stops. This increased the steering angle and sped the steering up. I have not looked at 4th gens, but on my 3rd gen i have not modified the steering. On 3rd gens the subframe and control arms look to be a limiting factor and would require some fabrication to get more steering angle - but i haven't spent much time trying to figure it out."-z28evans
Finally! TECH!!
What other tricks are used to go from auto-x er to drifter?
How much damage should I expect if I try an amature event?
Do they ever wet the track? Seems like an easy way to start, not to mention go easier on equipment.
GIVE ME KNOWLEDGE!!

z28evans

iTrader: (4)

For the first few events you could take your car there in stock form - you won't get as much angle and will spin more, but that is ok. If you have auto-xed before then your car should pass tech and you will be more prepared than you think. Bring spare wheels with old tires mounted up and have fun. At most drift events you can get a LOT of seat time. Just drive like you want to get kicked out of an auto-x event

Most Amature events are held in parking lots and are setup so that there is nothing to hit. Make sure your oil level is ok so it won't starve. If your car is in good shape going in, you should do much damage to anything other than tires. If your diff is going out it may not be happy.

No, they don't wet the track (but most will run in the rain). A wet track makes it harder in many respects because you do want traction in drifting, esp once you get better. LS1 based cars have a big advantage over 240's in that they have power and a good drivetrain to begin with.

Tires - the biggest part of drifting. You can often get free tires from friends and businesses. Get some half worn tires that people throw away and a set of spare wheels and you are in business. Often beginners use less tires because they don't have the skill to keep on the throttle as much (and they are spinning). Most drift events have a tire changer at the track or close by that will mount tires cheaply (don't need them balanced).

It is usually harder than it looks - but i have seen several good auto-xers come to drift events and kick ***. I am decent at auto-x, but not very good at all at drifting. I have seen several times where professional road racers have gone into drifting only to do very poorly. The current champions of Formula Drift both come from Rally backgrounds.

old videos - but will give you an idea of the 'regular' types of cars at events. In the first video the bmw and the zo6 are driven by nationaly ranked auto-x drivers who are at their first drift event - and kicked ***.

video 1) Drift Showoff event (regulars competing with pros showing up)

http://www.bubbadrift.com/album/disp...album=11&pos=3

video 2) A Local texas drift event (on a wet track)

http://www.bubbadrift.com/album/disp...album=11&pos=0

go easy on my choice of music and editing

Whistler

iTrader: (46)

It looks like fun to me. Welding on a cast iron spindle sounds dangerous. It's been done and works?

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

Is it really even economically feasible to mod a 4th gen into a drift car? I remember watching what they did to a GTO on TV a while back, and it was quite extensive just to get it to do what they wanted. While these cars have some serious power going to the rear tires, I'm not sure they are all that well suited to this type of sport...

z28evans

iTrader: (4)

Welding cast iron can be tricky, and i would be careful in which applications it should be done. On the El camino there is a little more beef to the spindle than on 4th gens i believe. Since the el camino had become a 'drift' track oriented car (rarely seeing speeds over 90) we decided to try it. I welded it up and we 'tested' it by hitting the knuckle with a 5lb hammer We did two of them (2nd one wsa for revised steering geometry) and in two years of heavy use (hitting rumble strips at tracks, hitting a wall hard enough to bend a front wheel, etc) we never had one break.

I'm not sure if many forms of motorsport are economically feasible
The GTO was being prepped to lead to a national championship - they acid dipped to body to lose weight, etc. For the average and even semi-professional person setting up a 'drift' car is basically the same thing you would do for auto-x or track days but with the addition of more steering angle. I'm not sure how involved it would be to get more steering angle on a 4th gen - never really looked.

subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

Wow, thanks z28evans 4 the vids! I think the rain one was very cool! Just seems like you would get more time out of tires and be less likely to damage the rear end and trans in the wet.

When I asked b4 about damage, I meant driveline and tire failure. Do you see alot of diffs giving up, or clutches (obviously not in the GMC), or tires blowing out? Seems like mechanical failure is more likely in drifting than auto-x. Alot of my Semi-car guy friends and coworkers are afraid to autoX for fear of breaking there car. I hope I'm not being that way.

What other tricks do you guys use set up wise? Over inflate tires? Are the semi pro guys using old bald tires? I assume not. If not is shaving the tires down needed?

Also, are you guys 2 footing (1 on brake - 1 on gas) the GMC? Kinda looks like the nose dips sometimes and the rears are smoking away.

I read hydraulic E-brake set ups are common, what other mechanical bits are used?

What driving techniques are used, I'm assuming there is alot of mid corner clutch dumping w the lower horse cars?

R people running spools? I would think they would help.

jhelms

iTrader: (2)

z28evans, the rain vid is very entertaining...

drz

iTrader: (3)

z28evans pointed me to this thread, thought I'd contribute a little.

To put it one way, drifting puts a lot less stress on your drivetrain than a hard drag launch, since the tires are typically ones offering low traction. Weak LSDs can wear out quickly from excessive internal slipage. Clutches rarely give people problems since they aren't ever slipped hard. In my 4+ years around drifting, I've never seen a tire blow out without obvious warning. Not one.

Once you get more seat time and start trying different tires, you'll quickly discover that good rear tires with more traction offer a lot more control and confidence. Old bald tires, though easy to overpower, have little of the lateral traction needed to keep the rear axle from coming out too far (spin). Many enthusiasts still run old, used tires simply for reasons of economy - if you know where to look, good used tires can be had for free by the truck-load. However, new tires that haven't been dry-rotted or heat-cycled to death typlically last much longer and offer far better performance. Shaving is never a consideration, since a tires life cycle in drifting is so short anyways.

A friend and fellow drifting enthusiast currently uses a 240sx with about 300rwhp. His rear tire of choice is new Falken Azenis RT615 (t/w 200) in no less than 275/40/17, sometimes 275/35/18. The extra traction and added speed and control they provide is suprising.

hydraulic e-brakes are sometimes used in cars that don't have effective hand-brakes - like the gmc. Power steering coolers are a must for cars that see events regularly. The exagerated steering motions that drifting requires has a way of overheating power steering fluid like in no other motorsport. A non-open diff of some sort is needed, but other than that, there isn't anything else that's really needed. Like stated before, steering angle helps a lot, as does a balanced and responsive suspension.

There is a whole lot to say over driving techniques. "clutch-kicks" are common in cars that have narrow power-bands as you suspect, but the core of drifting technique is in the balancing of the steering and throttle. Experience and seat-time is everything here.

Welded diffs are extremely common and effective. Spools would perform the same function in cars they are available for. James' el camino has a spool. LSDs can work well, too, but they need to have a strong lock-up to keep from burning them up too quickly.


In regards to drifting as a subjective sport, I'd like to point out that you need NOT be interested in drifting for the competition to enjoy it as a fun activity to do with your car. It can be likened to the millions of people who take their car to the friday-night drags just to run some times, and not caring if they beat the guy in the other lane. Preoccupying your thoughts toward drifting on the element of subjective competition is really missing the point entirely. Very, very few people go to drifting events to "beat the next guy", and most drifting events in our area are nothing fancier than DE events with no competitive element at all.

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

Oh so true

ChevyWeatherman

iTrader: (2)

I have never understood the fascination with drifting. A lot of people say it is a new sport....have these people ever seen a sprint car or a dirt late model? This has been a sport for years and years, except they actually race to a finish line.

subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

Thanks DRZ, great info. I also think that it is wise to look at this more like an open track day. Have fun, get seat time, and who really cares what the judges think.

There was an amature drifting event in my area in late fall. I gave it consideration, but was ultimatley busy that weekend anyway. I may try one this next season.

Question about the tire ware issue. I realize every driver, car, track will b different, but how many events would a set of say 275/40/17 Nitto 555s w 300 treadware last?
Again I realize there is no exact way to answer, but if I will RUIN a set at just one event, maybe I should pass. They lasted 1 season, around 5000 road miles and I think 4 high speed and 1 low speed Auto-X and seem fine. I want to give this a go, but realy cannot justify buying a set of tires every event.

EchoMirage

iTrader: (3)

if it's all for fun ***** and giggles, then i'd buy skinny, cheap used tires, and not worry about the extra control of the better tires. a spare set of cheap rims, garbage tires, and smoke the hides all day.

slick1851

F cars make alot aot more TQ than the 4cyc cars so there going to eat up tires really fast.

Just get cheap *** used tires, and go drift for the fun of it!