Getting into Road Racing!
Thread Starter
12 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 339
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From: Gas Station
Getting into Road Racing! Hi fellas, so yea, I plan on buying like a 99 Z28, since I know them well! I had 4 Camaros already, all Z-28!
The one I have is just not a good choice for Road racing at all... not the way it is set up.. plus its a Auto 3 gear trans with 4400 stall and T-Rex etc. pretty much set-up for 1/4 mile.
Couple of simple noob questions.
-Best tires for the money, I understand that I need all 4 slicks not only 2 anymore
Maybe even some good radials, something I could take on the street sometime, drive around. Something that wont wear out too quickly.
-Suspension ( nothing too fancy, but something that will be much better over stock) want to have that thing stable on turns etc.
-Gear ratio
-Decent break system, not too pricey.
I will probably put a mild cam in it, just to give it extra HP, some good clutch etc.
I've been to Road Amercia, with of the guys with a ZO6, took me for a ride.. I was like holy ****.... going almost 160 mph on the straight away.. smalling on breaks and taking turn at 90mph! This is insane.. I love it.
He is damn good, races in A class.
Appreciate it!
The one I have is just not a good choice for Road racing at all... not the way it is set up.. plus its a Auto 3 gear trans with 4400 stall and T-Rex etc. pretty much set-up for 1/4 mile.
Couple of simple noob questions.
-Best tires for the money, I understand that I need all 4 slicks not only 2 anymore
Maybe even some good radials, something I could take on the street sometime, drive around. Something that wont wear out too quickly.-Suspension ( nothing too fancy, but something that will be much better over stock) want to have that thing stable on turns etc.
-Gear ratio
-Decent break system, not too pricey.
I will probably put a mild cam in it, just to give it extra HP, some good clutch etc.
I've been to Road Amercia, with of the guys with a ZO6, took me for a ride.. I was like holy ****.... going almost 160 mph on the straight away.. smalling on breaks and taking turn at 90mph! This is insane.. I love it.
He is damn good, races in A class.
Appreciate it!
Last edited by CRZYPWR; Jan 30, 2007 at 02:04 PM.
!LS1 11 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,133
Likes: 2
From: Miami
There's a big difference between Road Racing and simply lapping on a road course.
Road Racing means having a tech certified car which complies with the safety and rulebook standards of the class and sanctioning body which you wish to compete in. Road Racing involves the high probability of car contact and track incident (hence the need for full safety gear). Road Racing involves getting licensed by a sanctioning body to allow you to compete.
Driving on a road course is much more open to the general public. www.nasaproracing.com has an extensive HPDE (High Performance Driving Event) curriculum with track instruction. So does www.chinmotorsports.com - all you need is a helmet, good brake pads and fluid and decent performance summer tire to participate.
F-bod setup:
Koni shocks + Hotchkis Springs
Sway bars
Panhard Bar, LCA's, Torque arm.
At minimum, HAWK HP Plus pads, high temp brake fluid.
Good tire. Alignment up front.
Get an SAE 2000 or newer helmet. You're ready to go lap.
Road Racing means having a tech certified car which complies with the safety and rulebook standards of the class and sanctioning body which you wish to compete in. Road Racing involves the high probability of car contact and track incident (hence the need for full safety gear). Road Racing involves getting licensed by a sanctioning body to allow you to compete.
Driving on a road course is much more open to the general public. www.nasaproracing.com has an extensive HPDE (High Performance Driving Event) curriculum with track instruction. So does www.chinmotorsports.com - all you need is a helmet, good brake pads and fluid and decent performance summer tire to participate.
F-bod setup:
Koni shocks + Hotchkis Springs
Sway bars
Panhard Bar, LCA's, Torque arm.
At minimum, HAWK HP Plus pads, high temp brake fluid.
Good tire. Alignment up front.
Get an SAE 2000 or newer helmet. You're ready to go lap.
talk to Sam Strano for more help with the suspension setup. what most guys have on this board are Strano springs, Koni SA, strano front & rear sways. solid rotors, Hawk HPS pads in front. slicks, or max performance summer tires (dry only) is up to you. do you want to drive to the track on the tires, or carry slicks/race tires in the car, or trailer it there?
dont worry about gears or a cam, you wont need them just for screwing around on a track day. usual safety/maintenance stuff should be done. do a quick search or just look around on the road race forum and youll see a list of what most people do/bring with them. also check out FRRAX.com, its all f-body road racing. if you plan on doing this for a while, get an SA 2005 helmet, and you wont have to worry about upgrading down the road. i got one from saferacer.com, open face G-force, for $130 i think.
dont worry about gears or a cam, you wont need them just for screwing around on a track day. usual safety/maintenance stuff should be done. do a quick search or just look around on the road race forum and youll see a list of what most people do/bring with them. also check out FRRAX.com, its all f-body road racing. if you plan on doing this for a while, get an SA 2005 helmet, and you wont have to worry about upgrading down the road. i got one from saferacer.com, open face G-force, for $130 i think.
Thread Starter
12 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 339
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From: Gas Station
Nice... I see.
That was a valuable piece of information.
So I guess I can lap on Road America in WI. I seen people with really standard cars overthere, nothing special in the lowest class. I guess I could get in there. I will take a course though, I want to learn this.
That was a valuable piece of information.
So I guess I can lap on Road America in WI. I seen people with really standard cars overthere, nothing special in the lowest class. I guess I could get in there. I will take a course though, I want to learn this.
gears, i would say you should prolly be fine with a 3.23-3.73 (at most)
tires...theres lots of debate, but kumho v710's and v70s are nice...or even GSD3s or 555 R ll's
suspension varies from mild-wild; mild being a set of nice springs such as the G2 springs or Strano's springs, or more wild springs being H&Rs..shocks, at the cheapest, revalved bilsteins from Strano, or Koni S/A's (only 2 options i would even think to consider)
more wild setup would be ground control C/O's with Koni's, or LGs true coilover setup. LGs would be 1 of the best to get for track, but overkill on the street...you can then move up to penske shocks etc..all overkill
brakes- there are a lot of choices to upgrade to from a C5 conversion->wilwood->stoptechs...it all depends on your budget.
you also may want sway bars...talk to Strano...LCA's, obviously PHR, and upper/lower a-arms are up to you and how serious you get with it, and a torque arm; this list can go for a little while
i'm sure others will chime in. but theres a good start to look through info and begin your search to see what'll best suit your needs
tires...theres lots of debate, but kumho v710's and v70s are nice...or even GSD3s or 555 R ll's
suspension varies from mild-wild; mild being a set of nice springs such as the G2 springs or Strano's springs, or more wild springs being H&Rs..shocks, at the cheapest, revalved bilsteins from Strano, or Koni S/A's (only 2 options i would even think to consider)
more wild setup would be ground control C/O's with Koni's, or LGs true coilover setup. LGs would be 1 of the best to get for track, but overkill on the street...you can then move up to penske shocks etc..all overkill
brakes- there are a lot of choices to upgrade to from a C5 conversion->wilwood->stoptechs...it all depends on your budget.
you also may want sway bars...talk to Strano...LCA's, obviously PHR, and upper/lower a-arms are up to you and how serious you get with it, and a torque arm; this list can go for a little while
i'm sure others will chime in. but theres a good start to look through info and begin your search to see what'll best suit your needs
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Originally Posted by CRZYPWR
Nice... I see.
That was a valuable piece of information.
So I guess I can lap on Road America in WI. I seen people with really standard cars overthere, nothing special in the lowest class. I guess I could get in there. I will take a course though, I want to learn this.
That was a valuable piece of information.
So I guess I can lap on Road America in WI. I seen people with really standard cars overthere, nothing special in the lowest class. I guess I could get in there. I will take a course though, I want to learn this.
to begin, you might even want to take the car in stock trim, see what you nad the car can do, see how it feels and then work from there on what you want the car to do more of, etc..
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12 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 339
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From: Gas Station
Oh yea, I am sure list can go on forever, just like it did with the camaro I got now!
Pretty much it will be a 99 Z.. with about 75k on it, 6 speed.
Something to beat on, do some laps, in case of flying off the track (which I have a feeling that it will happen - got a damn heavy foot) I wont have to worry about too much.
Most likely tires that I could drive on, no trailoring just yet.
Later on yes, I would love to get into some more serious racing, but it is a long way before this happens. Only experience I got as far as lapping is well, couple of rides in that ZO6 at road amercia and... 1000s of hours spent on playing gran turismo on 55 inch TV, GT steering wheel, shifter and pedals
Sounds like a good idea with taking a bone stock camaro and see what will happen, then based on the results, get parts that are needed the most, go from there. Tires for sure.
So damn excited.
Thanks a lot guys, will be back from time to time. For now gonna do some heavy research!
Pretty much it will be a 99 Z.. with about 75k on it, 6 speed.
Something to beat on, do some laps, in case of flying off the track (which I have a feeling that it will happen - got a damn heavy foot) I wont have to worry about too much.
Most likely tires that I could drive on, no trailoring just yet.
Later on yes, I would love to get into some more serious racing, but it is a long way before this happens. Only experience I got as far as lapping is well, couple of rides in that ZO6 at road amercia and... 1000s of hours spent on playing gran turismo on 55 inch TV, GT steering wheel, shifter and pedals
Sounds like a good idea with taking a bone stock camaro and see what will happen, then based on the results, get parts that are needed the most, go from there. Tires for sure.
So damn excited.
Thanks a lot guys, will be back from time to time. For now gonna do some heavy research!
Making wholesale changes without knowing what the car is doing is just dumb and a waste of money. Even with stock shocks, there is a lot more car there than there is with a rookie driver.
A good helmet, a 5 point harness, good brakes and an open mind to listen to your instructor should be sufficient your first few times out.
A good helmet, a 5 point harness, good brakes and an open mind to listen to your instructor should be sufficient your first few times out.
!LS1 11 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,133
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From: Miami
Originally Posted by mitchntx
Making wholesale changes without knowing what the car is doing is just dumb and a waste of money. Even with stock shocks, there is a lot more car there than there is with a rookie driver.
A good helmet, a 5 point harness, good brakes and an open mind to listen to your instructor should be sufficient your first few times out.
A good helmet, a 5 point harness, good brakes and an open mind to listen to your instructor should be sufficient your first few times out.
Driving on a road course is much more open to the general public. www.nasaproracing.com has an extensive HPDE (High Performance Driving Event) curriculum with track instruction. So does www.chinmotorsports.com - all you need is a helmet, good brake pads and fluid and decent performance summer tire to participate.
Thread Starter
12 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 339
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From: Gas Station
Originally Posted by mitchntx
Making wholesale changes without knowing what the car is doing is just dumb and a waste of money. Even with stock shocks, there is a lot more car there than there is with a rookie driver.
A good helmet, a 5 point harness, good brakes and an open mind to listen to your instructor should be sufficient your first few times out.
A good helmet, a 5 point harness, good brakes and an open mind to listen to your instructor should be sufficient your first few times out.
I remember that instructor driving a 2001 Camaro SS, Bone stock...
This guy was kicking ***... people had problems witch cathing him up... even though they had slicks, some cars extra 200hp etc.
It is all about technique... so Yes it will take a long time before I'll even get full potential out of the stock Z on the track.
The absolute best thing you can have, other than a helmet, is seat time. I have only been on the track a few times, but I learn a bunch each time. That is why my buddy and I have started organizing track days. Our first one is April 30 at Gingerman, which isn't too far from Chicago. Our track days are basically lapping days, but we do have an instruction session and instructors available for free on a first come first served basis.
From what I have seen, I have to agree with the guys above. People that start making their cars faster before increasing their driving skills end up being out of control. It's dangerous for you and the people around you. The best upgrades I could suggest are brakes (everyone can use more brakes), a harness (it's really hard to drive well when you have to hold your body in the seat), and learn how to prepare your car (bleed brakes, remove loose items, check all suspension bolts, tie rod ends, ball joints, etc, and setting tire pressures). I would stay away from R compound tires and slicks because they are expensive; will wear faster if you aren't smooth; and are more prone to spinning if you don't know what to expect.
If you are interested in coming out to the track day, check our website www.3ballsracing.com. Our events are setup for people like you, and there will be plenty of people to talk to about car setup and driving tips.
Ken
From what I have seen, I have to agree with the guys above. People that start making their cars faster before increasing their driving skills end up being out of control. It's dangerous for you and the people around you. The best upgrades I could suggest are brakes (everyone can use more brakes), a harness (it's really hard to drive well when you have to hold your body in the seat), and learn how to prepare your car (bleed brakes, remove loose items, check all suspension bolts, tie rod ends, ball joints, etc, and setting tire pressures). I would stay away from R compound tires and slicks because they are expensive; will wear faster if you aren't smooth; and are more prone to spinning if you don't know what to expect.
If you are interested in coming out to the track day, check our website www.3ballsracing.com. Our events are setup for people like you, and there will be plenty of people to talk to about car setup and driving tips.
Ken
Last edited by BB69; Jan 31, 2007 at 10:52 AM.
Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time Seat Time. Strap on a helmet, make sure you have a good set of brake pads and go have some fun. After a good couple of track events and talking to the other guys at the track; you will have a better handle on the upgrades that you will need.
Thread Starter
12 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Gas Station
Ken, I checked out the whole web-site. That looks amazing.
I see that Camaro got pretty beat up! Wow...
I will register later on today, See I am working on getting a 99 Z-28 this spring time, so hopefully everything goes alright and I will be able to start comming out!
Thanks for a great info!
I see that Camaro got pretty beat up! Wow...
I will register later on today, See I am working on getting a 99 Z-28 this spring time, so hopefully everything goes alright and I will be able to start comming out!
Thanks for a great info!
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Missouri
If you start out with a Z-28 you'll need something to cool the power steering. A friend of mine tried w/o a cooler and blew two pumps in 3 track days. If you start out with 2002 1-LE SS you get the power steering cooler, bigger sway bars and Koni DA shocks. I'd highly recommend brake ducting, performance pads (Carbotech, Hawk Blue or similar) in the front and Motol 600 or better brake fluid. After that, the best bang for the buck is springs from Sam Stranos.
Spending money on mods isn't necessary to have fun at the track. Driving whatever you've got to its limit is a blast.
Seat time makes a much bigger difference than mods in your lap times early on. I'm 20 seconds a lap faster at my home track now than I was at the end of my 1st weekend there.
Spending money on mods isn't necessary to have fun at the track. Driving whatever you've got to its limit is a blast.
Seat time makes a much bigger difference than mods in your lap times early on. I'm 20 seconds a lap faster at my home track now than I was at the end of my 1st weekend there.
Originally Posted by CRZYPWR
Would take me about 3.5 - 4 hours to get to Grattan.
Takes me 2.5 - 3 hours to get to Road America.
Not too bad.
Takes me 2.5 - 3 hours to get to Road America.
Not too bad.
If you were talking about my 69 Camaro, I got hit on the way to work the day before Woodward. We were having a car show at work. What a pain in the butt that has been. I fought with the insurance company for two months before I got a check or even thought about working on it. A friend has had the car now since October. I don't think it will be ready before summer. He's working on it in his spare time. It will be nice when it's done though.
If you have any questions about the event, let me know. Otherwise, we will be glad to see you there.
Ken
Thread Starter
12 Second Club
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Gas Station
Outstanding! I will definetly keep in touch. I will try to pick something up soon, either '98 Z M6 or '98 C5 M6.
Yeah, these photos looked painfull.
How about that Red vette that flew off the road? Any damage to it ? Suspension, body etc ? Is it all fixed up already?
When I saw that photo I was thinking... yup... that's me right there! hahaah!
Yeah, these photos looked painfull.
How about that Red vette that flew off the road? Any damage to it ? Suspension, body etc ? Is it all fixed up already?
When I saw that photo I was thinking... yup... that's me right there! hahaah!