Road Race School Impressions
04-16-2007, 09:28 AM
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Road Race School Impressions I'll make the disclaimers up front that my car is a drag race car first, and I know very little about cornering, but I completed the local road race class & learned quite a bit about me & my car. Most importantly I had a LOT of fun! 
1st - my car is capable of doing things I never thought possible. I can be going 60mph, hammer the brakes, whip the wheel right to avoid an obstacle & then left to come in behind it & stop straight. Fuggin ABS is amazing!
2nd - Goodyear Eagle F1s are damn good cornering tires, but they are limited stright-line tires. They held fast in corners that scared me to begin with, but I could break them loose at will in the straight-aways. (w/275s up front & 315s on the rear)
3rd - Eibach Pro springs & HAL adj shocks my not be good enough for you serious road race guys, but I think this setup is ok. Since I haven't found it's limit in turns yet & I still want to drag race. I had the fronts set to 5-6 & the rear to 8 and it felt like it was on rails.
Again, I'm not trying to irritate anyone, just posting my results/impressions. If I was going to get into some serious corner carving I would probably make some changes, but for what I want to do I think this will work. Tho I think I do need heavier spring rates. The car will bottom out if I hit bumps at speed.
And I am going to slap some Toyo RA1's on the car for my open road race & hope they stick better.
1st - my car is capable of doing things I never thought possible. I can be going 60mph, hammer the brakes, whip the wheel right to avoid an obstacle & then left to come in behind it & stop straight. Fuggin ABS is amazing!
2nd - Goodyear Eagle F1s are damn good cornering tires, but they are limited stright-line tires. They held fast in corners that scared me to begin with, but I could break them loose at will in the straight-aways. (w/275s up front & 315s on the rear)
3rd - Eibach Pro springs & HAL adj shocks my not be good enough for you serious road race guys, but I think this setup is ok. Since I haven't found it's limit in turns yet & I still want to drag race. I had the fronts set to 5-6 & the rear to 8 and it felt like it was on rails.
Again, I'm not trying to irritate anyone, just posting my results/impressions. If I was going to get into some serious corner carving I would probably make some changes, but for what I want to do I think this will work. Tho I think I do need heavier spring rates. The car will bottom out if I hit bumps at speed.
And I am going to slap some Toyo RA1's on the car for my open road race & hope they stick better.
04-17-2007, 07:35 AM
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Red pill - LOL. I certainly had fun! And who knows, once I get some more seat time & actually feel comfortable driving it hard, I might prefer this over drag racing. But at this point it's rather frustrating to have all this power & not be able to use it. We'll see....
04-17-2007, 08:02 AM
#5
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Originally Posted by WAHUSKER
Red pill - LOL. I certainly had fun! And who knows, once I get some more seat time & actually feel comfortable driving it hard, I might prefer this over drag racing. But at this point it's rather frustrating to have all this power & not be able to use it. We'll see....
Lots of power on the roadcourse needs a) a well balanced chassis, superbly dialed in suspension and most importantly b) intense brakes. A full roll cage as well of course.
Last edited by SouthFL.02.SS; 04-17-2007 at 01:38 PM.
04-17-2007, 01:10 PM
#6
Originally Posted by WAHUSKER
3rd - Eibach Pro springs & HAL adj shocks my not be good enough for you serious road race guys, but I think this setup is ok. Since I haven't found it's limit in turns yet & I still want to drag race. I had the fronts set to 5-6 & the rear to 8 and it felt like it was on rails.
HALs are a very nice shock, but not designed to take the heat and abuse cornering dishes out.
Welcome to the world a drag racing in 2 different directions, connected with a turn at each end.
04-17-2007, 07:37 PM
#7
[QUOTE=Lots of power on the road course needs a) a well balanced chassis, superbly dialed in suspension and most importantly b) intense brakes. A full roll cage as well of course.[/QUOTE]
And very careful use of the right foot. Road coarses are all about the line and not the right foot. It's great that there's another road junkie out there. It's also great that you did so well in a car that runs the 1/4 so fast. That's tough to do.
As you've found out road coarses will bring out every weakness in the car. Brakes, power steering, oiling/cooling, fluid transfer, etc. all get tested in a much different way than drag racing. I've gone thorough this with early small-block Chevys but am just now diving into LS territory. Much is the same, just different equipment.
Bilstein will re-valve bases on corner weights and spring rates and work quite well, unless you want to go into the spendy Penske remote reservoir/double adjustables
.
And very careful use of the right foot. Road coarses are all about the line and not the right foot. It's great that there's another road junkie out there. It's also great that you did so well in a car that runs the 1/4 so fast. That's tough to do.
As you've found out road coarses will bring out every weakness in the car. Brakes, power steering, oiling/cooling, fluid transfer, etc. all get tested in a much different way than drag racing. I've gone thorough this with early small-block Chevys but am just now diving into LS territory. Much is the same, just different equipment.
Bilstein will re-valve bases on corner weights and spring rates and work quite well, unless you want to go into the spendy Penske remote reservoir/double adjustables
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04-17-2007, 08:55 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by CarlC
And very careful use of the right foot. Road coarses are all about the line and not the right foot. It's great that there's another road junkie out there. It's also great that you did so well in a car that runs the 1/4 so fast. That's tough to do.
As you've found out road coarses will bring out every weakness in the car. Brakes, power steering, oiling/cooling, fluid transfer, etc. all get tested in a much different way than drag racing. I've gone thorough this with early small-block Chevys but am just now diving into LS territory. Much is the same, just different equipment.
Bilstein will re-valve bases on corner weights and spring rates and work quite well, unless you want to go into the spendy Penske remote reservoir/double adjustables .
As you've found out road coarses will bring out every weakness in the car. Brakes, power steering, oiling/cooling, fluid transfer, etc. all get tested in a much different way than drag racing. I've gone thorough this with early small-block Chevys but am just now diving into LS territory. Much is the same, just different equipment.
Bilstein will re-valve bases on corner weights and spring rates and work quite well, unless you want to go into the spendy Penske remote reservoir/double adjustables
.
04-17-2007, 09:44 PM
#10
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Originally Posted by FireSilverLullaby
Wow that sounds pretty cool. Was it expensive to do one of these schools, or do you have any links. thanks
also, www.chinmotorsports.com does VIR
04-18-2007, 07:38 AM
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It is a very different world from drag racing. I found out several things about my setup:
The brakes (Eradispeeds with Hawk pads) did a superb job. I was able to scrub all the speed I needed to going into turns. They never once faded on me. But I was only making 15-20 laps at a time.
The power steering unit was growling during the cone tests, and the car was over heating. But once I got rolling down the road course and got some air movemnet, it was all good. But again, I was only driving for 1/2 hr.
I need to manually shift the tranny. Coming out of a turn with a blower & a looser stall with the trans making the decisions is a BAD combination!
The car felt like it was on rails. The instr told me that means I wasn't going fast enough. Of course if I had been going "fast enough", I'm sure the shocks would have become an issue. But with subframes, a roll bar, stiff shocks & big sway bars I liked how it felt. (see opening statement where I admit I know nothing)
But I know people like Mitch & Sam & Boyce etc are right. If I was going to get serious about cornering, I would need to make some changes. There is NO way my car will hang with a Z06 or a Lotus in hard turns the way it is now. But I think it will be OK for my open road race where the turns are softer, but much faster. Well, I will want heavier springs rates on it....Eibachs bottom out on a 4000lb+ car when you hit big bumps at speed.
The brakes (Eradispeeds with Hawk pads) did a superb job. I was able to scrub all the speed I needed to going into turns. They never once faded on me. But I was only making 15-20 laps at a time.
The power steering unit was growling during the cone tests, and the car was over heating. But once I got rolling down the road course and got some air movemnet, it was all good. But again, I was only driving for 1/2 hr.
I need to manually shift the tranny. Coming out of a turn with a blower & a looser stall with the trans making the decisions is a BAD combination!
The car felt like it was on rails. The instr told me that means I wasn't going fast enough. Of course if I had been going "fast enough", I'm sure the shocks would have become an issue. But with subframes, a roll bar, stiff shocks & big sway bars I liked how it felt. (see opening statement where I admit I know nothing)
But I know people like Mitch & Sam & Boyce etc are right. If I was going to get serious about cornering, I would need to make some changes. There is NO way my car will hang with a Z06 or a Lotus in hard turns the way it is now. But I think it will be OK for my open road race where the turns are softer, but much faster. Well, I will want heavier springs rates on it....Eibachs bottom out on a 4000lb+ car when you hit big bumps at speed.
04-18-2007, 09:34 AM
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Great write up. I can't believe you were road racing with a 600+hp car....that's insane! I've road raced two Vettes, a '98 coupe with about 400hp and a basically stock '01 Z06 and that was plenty of power. Even the instructors who rode with me in those cars said that the cars were overpowered for my experience level. It's very humbling when you get passed by a Spec Mazda Miata at Watkins Glen. It's all about learning the line and using your driving skills, not about who has the most HP. Now I have a '96 Z-28 that I"m setting up to road race. Going to LimeRock next month and back to Watkins Glen in June. These events are the most addicting activities!! Totally blows away 1/4 mile racing.
04-18-2007, 12:31 PM
#13
[QUOTE=WAHUSKER]
The power steering unit was growling during the cone tests, and the car was over heating. But once I got rolling down the road course and got some air movemnet, it was all good. But again, I was only driving for 1/2 hr.
QUOTE]
1/2 hour is a lot. When you get into a lead-follow with an equal car/driver that makes you push yourself, after 20 minutes most people are done.
Don't be surprised if your power steering dies. Heat is a killer for the pump. Syns are not the best answer IMO. Having dealt with a plethora of P-pump (early GM and still used on GM trucks) problems the best fluid I've found is the stock GM fluid, and this is backed up by a former Saginaw engineer. Lee's Power Steering is building a new pump for me with a smaller liner (pump ring), revised output pressure, trick shaft, and -10 input to accomodate a remote KSE filter-reservoir (see my website.) We're also going to flip the pump uspide-down to allow for better reservoir mounting and feed lines. At every track event someone blows up a PS pump, it's something most don't even think about, and just slapping a cooler and syns at it won't fix the root cause of failure.
The power steering unit was growling during the cone tests, and the car was over heating. But once I got rolling down the road course and got some air movemnet, it was all good. But again, I was only driving for 1/2 hr.
QUOTE]
1/2 hour is a lot. When you get into a lead-follow with an equal car/driver that makes you push yourself, after 20 minutes most people are done.
Don't be surprised if your power steering dies. Heat is a killer for the pump. Syns are not the best answer IMO. Having dealt with a plethora of P-pump (early GM and still used on GM trucks) problems the best fluid I've found is the stock GM fluid, and this is backed up by a former Saginaw engineer. Lee's Power Steering is building a new pump for me with a smaller liner (pump ring), revised output pressure, trick shaft, and -10 input to accomodate a remote KSE filter-reservoir (see my website.) We're also going to flip the pump uspide-down to allow for better reservoir mounting and feed lines. At every track event someone blows up a PS pump, it's something most don't even think about, and just slapping a cooler and syns at it won't fix the root cause of failure.
04-20-2007, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by patred48
It's about freakin' time! 
Pat
Pat
And cut the old man some slack will ya? I'm doing the Bonneville 100 in June. That's why I took this class. It's hard for an old drag-coger like me to learn that turnig the steering wheel INS'T a bad thing!
04-20-2007, 12:02 PM
#16
Originally Posted by WAHUSKER
It is a very different world from drag racing. I found out several things about my setup:
The brakes (Eradispeeds with Hawk pads) did a superb job. I was able to scrub all the speed I needed to going into turns. They never once faded on me. But I was only making 15-20 laps at a time.
The power steering unit was growling during the cone tests, and the car was over heating. But once I got rolling down the road course and got some air movemnet, it was all good. But again, I was only driving for 1/2 hr.
I need to manually shift the tranny. Coming out of a turn with a blower & a looser stall with the trans making the decisions is a BAD combination!
The car felt like it was on rails. The instr told me that means I wasn't going fast enough. Of course if I had been going "fast enough", I'm sure the shocks would have become an issue. But with subframes, a roll bar, stiff shocks & big sway bars I liked how it felt. (see opening statement where I admit I know nothing)
But I know people like Mitch & Sam & Boyce etc are right. If I was going to get serious about cornering, I would need to make some changes. There is NO way my car will hang with a Z06 or a Lotus in hard turns the way it is now. But I think it will be OK for my open road race where the turns are softer, but much faster. Well, I will want heavier springs rates on it....Eibachs bottom out on a 4000lb+ car when you hit big bumps at speed.
The brakes (Eradispeeds with Hawk pads) did a superb job. I was able to scrub all the speed I needed to going into turns. They never once faded on me. But I was only making 15-20 laps at a time.
The power steering unit was growling during the cone tests, and the car was over heating. But once I got rolling down the road course and got some air movemnet, it was all good. But again, I was only driving for 1/2 hr.
I need to manually shift the tranny. Coming out of a turn with a blower & a looser stall with the trans making the decisions is a BAD combination!
The car felt like it was on rails. The instr told me that means I wasn't going fast enough. Of course if I had been going "fast enough", I'm sure the shocks would have become an issue. But with subframes, a roll bar, stiff shocks & big sway bars I liked how it felt. (see opening statement where I admit I know nothing)
But I know people like Mitch & Sam & Boyce etc are right. If I was going to get serious about cornering, I would need to make some changes. There is NO way my car will hang with a Z06 or a Lotus in hard turns the way it is now. But I think it will be OK for my open road race where the turns are softer, but much faster. Well, I will want heavier springs rates on it....Eibachs bottom out on a 4000lb+ car when you hit big bumps at speed.