nine-eight

iTrader: (7)

from what ive gathered the favorite wheel/tire combo for RR and autocross is a 17x11 ZR1 with 315's all the way around.

Im reworking the car pretty extensively with brakes/motor/suspension/tranny work. and ive moved to the new tire/wheel portion of the project...

That said, My favorite rim that ive seen on the camaros is the c5 zo6 rims, which i can get in a 17x9.5 size. Downside to this is of course, a max tire size of 285's, when id really rather have something closer to a 305. this is an issue for me because my primary goal for this car is to be a very quick, trackable street performance car that could be taken to a road track and id hope it to run easily with a c5 corvette, or maybe a c5 zo6 depending on how well it pans out.

So, how much of a difference in handling would i be losing by sticking with a 9.5 inch rim rather than the 11 inchers with track and street performance in mind??


Nine-Eight

Mojave

iTrader: (4)

If your goal is to run with a C5, you need all the tire you can get. I would say 315's or 335's are pretty much a requirement. You are giving up a lot of things to a C5 in terms of weight and suspension; the biggest, stickiest tires possible are one way to get a little back.

I would say 11in wide wheels front and rear are required.

Killer_Bluebird

iTrader: (23)

I have to agree with mojave! although I'm runing 275 for the momment in the future I plan on a ZR1/315 combo. I've tried the 295 on the back of my car and it didn't work out to well. And I ended up blowing one still not sure what caused it.

nine-eight

iTrader: (7)

doh! that means im going to have to fork out an extra 3k to get some custom ccws or something that I actually like. out of curiosity, how much work would it take to minitub/bodywork the front and rear of the car to fit 335-355's on the rear and 315's on the front, properly for a car that will see the street? one of the primary things i do not like about the 315's i see on the forum is that they stick out of the fenderwell... im sure they just love to pick up rocks and throw them at the sides of the car. id have to tuck em in

Mojave

iTrader: (4)

Tucking 355's in the rear will be near impossible. 315's will just slightly touch the stock LCA, and also can hang on the bumpstop when the rear suspension hangs down. Also, you need to pound the inner fenders to make the 315's fit.

In the front, careful selection of offset will allow them to fit, if you grind the nub off of the spindle. Firebirds have slightly larger fenders that allow them to fit the bigger tires a little easier, but there are plenty of Camaros with 315's all the way around.

Rescue Ranger

iTrader: (10)

you aren't planning on 315's all around for the street, are you??

slick1851

Plan on having your fenders pulled out, its comon in the import world

Pretty much its sort of like wide body but not really...

nine-eight

iTrader: (7)

no, from what i hear they will hit the car in street driving... is this true?
Im battling myself because I know the car will see more street use than track use.

the handling characteristics of the car are very important to me. im putting about 2-3 grand in the suspension so I want to maximize the benefit of that. on top of this, im going to have something around 450-500 RWHP on tap. I need all the traction I can get.

I am starting to think that trying to fit a 295 or bigger tire on the car for the street is going to be a much bigger, if not impossible project than I had originally thought.

the options im considering are either:

a.) 17x9.5" Zo6 replicas all the way around. 275 tires, and a light foot.

b.) 18x10.5" Zo6 replicas, all the way around. what, maybe 295's there? will those even fit on the front of the car?

c.) 18x9.5" front, 18x10.5 rear. 275=front, 295=rear


I need a magic 8 ball.

Mojave

iTrader: (4)

First off, why do you need big tires for the street? You shouldn't be driving so fast on the street that you need big tires.

Secondly, if you are spending $3K on the suspension (which I personally doubt you need to do), you had well better put the biggest possible tires on it, otherwise what is the point? F-bodies are heavy, and on top of that they are nose heavy. 315's will fit on the front. If you are doing all this work, spending all this money, why would you want to skimp when it comes to the most important part? It doesn't matter how well your suspension is setup if your tires aren't working.

Thirdly, it is well documented on what it takes to put big tires on a 4th gen.

http://www.frrax.com/rrforum/index.php?showtopic=2922

That thread tells you exactly what you have to do to make them fit.


If you actually thing you can build a car to keep up with a C5, you need big tires.

subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

I've been pondering this issue myself, and reading the above link. But my whole issue is I want my car to be as capable on the street as it is on the track (thats why I run street tire class). So, why is it you can't/shouldn't run 315s all around on the street? Why would clearance issues be worse on the street (where you are not pushing it as hard)?

As a side note, do 315s look funny on the front of a Z28? Most pics I've seen are at odd angles. Anyone have some good photos or links?

Ironhead

The rear tires are just about flush but the fronts do stick out a bit.









I have no rubbing at either end with only rolled rear fender lips, wheel spacers and longer studs to accommodate the spacers. I didn't grind anything or beat anything with a hammer.

nine-eight

iTrader: (7)

Bingo.
a new zo6 would flat out stomp me in every way, while it sits on street tires. and you dont have to change suspension, tires, or anything else to go between street, strip, and track. its a fantastically well designed package. I value that kind of performance.
I can gear a pinto to hit 60 in 4 seconds.
I can put race slicks on a honda and it will handle quite well.
I dont want a specialized race car. I want to make a fun, driveable compromise between a track car and a street car.

I agree. problem is, It will be a street car. If i stuff 315's under there, and they rub on the bumps and potholes, and throw rocks everywhere along the side of the car, its no longer the street car I want. If im going to be killing the ability of the car with 275's, I would rather have to eat a few more dollars to do the job right.

Also, Dont think me to be some rich punk kid. Im not just here to throw some cash at a car I just bought for grins. up until about 6 months ago I have been a ****-poor construction worker my entire life. ive sacrificed many things to enjoy my cars. in the past year ive finally become debt free, and found myself in a really nice job that im very grateful to have. for the first time in my life I make more than 50k/yrly. I decided that if i got the job, id either buy a 20-30k used truck and retire the camaro from DD status, or buy a 2k beater truck and drop 20k into the camaro. The camaro won.

I know about the Frrax sticky, ive already looked through it. I dont like the way the 315's stick outside of the car. ive heard mixed reports on whether or not they hit the fenderwells on the street. and I dont want them throwing rocks all over my paintjob. id either have to find a way to tuck them into the car or pull the fenderwell out like the poster above mentioned.

The c5 vette is a goal, its not like I expect the camaro to sprout wings and fly around everything at the track. I realized that i was going be getting in pretty deep to modify the camaro, enough so that I considered selling the camaro and buying a used c5 zo6. I decided that id rather have a car that i can park at walmart without worrying about it, drive on dirt roads and not feel guilty, etc. etc. Hence the "lets-see-how-close-we-can-get" attitude.

nine-eight

iTrader: (7)

looks like a nice track car you have there!
Do you have an idea of how big you can go in the front of the car before it starts to stick outside of the fenderwell? and your offset would be great for comparisons too.

Nine-Eight

Ironhead

There's really no off the shelf offset that's "right" so you have two options:

1) You can spec your own backspacing with a set of very pricey custom wheels. The advantage is they're much lighter and you don't have to mess with spacers. The downside is cost.

2) You can get an offset that is in the ball park and fit the wheels to your particular car with wheel spacers. Advantage is cost and wheel availability. Disadvantage is weight.

My particular set of wheels is supposed to be the C4 Grand Sport 50mm offset. I'm somewhat skeptical of the exact offset since my spacer thickness turned out to be a lot more (1/2 inch total) than I had figured. Keep in mind that these are cheapo Chinese knockoffs and I'm willing to bet that dimension is probably off.

Evidently Firebirds and Trans Ams can get away with no spacer using the 36mm ZR1 offset due to their wider fenders. A guy I race with has gone that route with his TA.

FWIW I sprung for a nice set of hubcentric spacers.

PotatoeMasher

Unless you have to be the fastest track/street Camaro around, I would recomend 315s in the rear and something a little smaller in the front like 285s. There shouldnt be a huge difference and you should still have an assload of fun. Probably no problem beating stock C5Zs and maybe Z51 c6s. If youre getting race tires though you might run 315s all around and you could run smaller tires for the street.

nine-eight

iTrader: (7)

nah I just want to get what i can out of the car. I know 17x11" rims can fit, can 18x10.5 fit well? i think ill be going with an 18x9.5 front, with 275 or 285 rims, and an 18x10.5 rear with whatever i can fit on there. maybe 305's.

subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

That is encouraging! You didn't even have to "hammer mod" the front above the tire, or the lump in the rear wheel well? To be honest this hammer mod stuff is my primary stumbling block...that bulge is there for some reason, right?

Also are those the Ebay knock offs? I was worried about them also because I've read comments about them being super heavy, and possibility of failures (though my current rims are knock offs). Anyway, I like the price on them and have been considering a similar combo. And tell me more about where to get/what size spacers you are using, if you would.

Mojave

iTrader: (4)

That is what you get for $65K, the ability to have the complete package. You can make a few compromises and keep up, but you can't have it all.

While the compromise car sounds great, it really isn't. In the strive to get faster, you will get further and further from streetable. Spring rates go up, heim joints replace bushings, seats get harder to get in and out of, the cage gets in the way, etc, etc.

I again ask why a car that won't see competition on some sort of racing surface (auto-x, HPDE, etc) needs big tires. You can get into plenty of trouble on 245's on the street. That seems like a big waste of money to get custom CCW's and 315's to say your car can do it all. Spending 5 mins swapping on R's is so much more effective. A set of cheap 17x11 with 315/35R17 Hoosier A6 or Kumbo V710 will provide tons and tons of grip, and then you swap back to streets. You will go faster, and save money by not using up 315's on the street.

To each his own, but doing all of this for a street car strikes me as misguided.

Track wheels: big wheels and big, sticky tires
Street wheels: cheap wheels and cheaper tires

Ironhead

The only thing that was a problem in the front was the spindle "bump". I can't legally grind the bump so I simply had to adjust the spacer thickness. The wheel / tire has not so much as even touched anything else up there. The car lowered but definitely not slammed. Maybe an inch lower than stock.

Yes, basically. I got them through a GP on FRRAX.

Load rating is not the greatest but a lot of people don't seem to have any problems and I've seen factory wheels fail as well so....

They are heavy though. 27 lbs a piece.

I got my spacers from Alan Blaine. He is a sponsor on FRRAX. Do a search, you'll find him.

subtlez28

iTrader: (15)

Good point, can't really argue w that.

Only for me I run a street tire class. I'm trying to fight the temptation of slicks to keep me a little slower, and hopefully save (more expensive) parts from more extreme forces. And if slicks aren't an option (for me) might as well bring as much to the street as possible. That said I do not drive scary hard on the street, thats what the track is for. So I definately agree more grip isn't really needed on the street.

Thanks Ironhead for the specifics. I'm familiar w Blaine...I have his reinforced sway bar brackets...quality work..reasonable price!

Informative thread!