Hennytime

iTrader: (33)

i know this seems a little apples to oranges, but here goes, what would the outcome be in a auto cross/road race event with all things equal between these two cars. the vette being stock and the camaro having shocks/springs, sway bars, decent tires, and bushings? will the vette just walk away or would the camaro hold its own?

this car would double as a daily driver, so nothing too crazy just some nice weeken fun that a drag car cant handle

Kyle Moore

this depends on what tires the vette and camaro are running. what spring/shock combo is the camaro running? what and where are the bushings? who is driving the vette and who is driving the camaro?

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

All things being equal ... driver talent, knowledge, tires, brakes ...

The Camaro could give the Vette a reall run ...

Hennytime

iTrader: (33)

regular street tires as this would be side fun for a dd, all things equal, stock camaro brakes and stock vette brakes.

Killer_Bluebird

iTrader: (23)

You know this question will get all kind of responses. But there is a guy in our club that races a (FS) 95 convertible Z28 on Kumhos V710. He is usually 2 secs of a (SS) Z06 driven by a pro driver & instructor. The corvette us usually on V710 also and has fully adjustable suspension. Do not think the Z28 has a single mod other than tires. He has ben racing this car for like 6-7 years. And the 4 guys that are running in CP (including me) are usually a few seconds slower than him. So I have a long way to go but experience makes the difference in most cases.

Mojave

iTrader: (4)

If you assume both cars are equally well driven, and both on equally good tires, the Corvette should still be a fair amount quicker. The SS PAX is .848 and the ESP PAX .834.

Note: driver and tires plays a much bigger part in this than anything else, but removing those two variables, the Corvette is still going to be faster. The Corvette is better in almost every way: less weight, better weight distribution, better suspension, etc. In fact, there isn't any area where the f-body would be significantly better.

WADDISME

iTrader: (4)

Having had a susp modded Ta and a Z06, even though the TA sticks as good thru the turns, you can still tell it is heavier, not as balanced, especially in rapid transitions, and if both have stock brakes, then the vette wins hands down, even with a less driver.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Very true.

But the criteria is the F-Car has a massaged suspension and the Vette is stock.

Replace suspension components with decent aluminum rod ends, lighter wheels, good shocks with a good spring rate, the F-car evens the playing field significantly.

WarShrike

iTrader: (5)

I know of one guy that did the 1 lap competitions in an F-body for many years, then graduated to a C5 and he said it was a world of difference. The C5 just does the job better, it is more natural in the Vette compared to the F-body.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

John Oliver?

Yes, he did like the Vette much better. But it had T1 suspension with Penskes, IIRC.

Mojave

iTrader: (4)

I compared the stock PAX for the Corvette, SS, with the street prepared PAX for the f-body, ESP. The ESP PAX includes springs, shocks, unlimited tire size, diff, etc. The F Stock PAX is only .809.

Again, these are auto-x PAX factors, which are far, far from ideal. But, it gives you a rough idea. The Z06 will be faster unless the f-body loses some serious weight. Also, a good driver can do a lot more than any spring, shock, or tire ever will.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Good info.

Killer_Bluebird

iTrader: (23)

BTW when I mentioned that the Z28 was 2 secs. behind the Z06 that was raw time not Pax adjusted. Granted 2 secs. is a lifetime in Auto-X but considering the car is pretty stock and a convertible I think a fbody is pretty good when it is well driven. I also want to iterate that both drivers are excellent drivers they ZO6 driver is usually the fastest driver by raw time in almost every event, His wife is sometimes faster in the same car.

Hennytime

iTrader: (33)

what exactly is the pax and esp you are talking about?

Kyle Moore

Autocross terms. PAX is a number that is multiplied into your time to "level the playing field". ive always heard of it as taking the car out of the equation. basically its a number assigned to different classes (The most common on TECH being: F-Stock [FS] E Street Prepared [ESP]) that is multiplied into your raw time to "even out the playing field. its really a way of comparing drivers on the same course.

someone please help explain this better. its all i can come up with.

ESP = E Street Prepared. a Class in SCCA Autocross.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

I was able to keep up with and pass many C5s on Hoosiers and M3s on V710s with my 98 TA on 315 V710s.

The TA was a full street car, complete with AC and 12 disc changer. Engine was putting out in the 380hp range and had the entire LGM catalog thrown at it.

WarShrike

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, Oliver. I remember it made it in two sections for Vette Magazine. I got so excited about that magazine when one of my dads projects made it in there lol.

I tried to paint up that car on a C5.R chassis for a race sim (GTR/GTR2). Never did get the time, had too many requests for other cars lol.

slick1851

Does Griggs and Max offer that crazy sus setup in the rear end for us yet?

I know they do for Mustangs

Mojave

iTrader: (4)

You mean a torque arm? F-bodies already have a torque arm. Thank GM.

Ojustracing

iTrader: (4)

No I dont think it was me. John Oliver. Only person that comes to mind is DAN cockern(Spelling) From Canada.

But I have driven a Moded F-body(No light weight parts, nothing removed including the spare tire and Jack. Also have driven a 02 zo-6( 305's all around, exhaust and non-essential parts removed) I;ve raced One Lap in 03, 04 and 06.

During Pre-event testing I drove both car's back to back at LRP. My Firebird was 2 sec a lap quicker. DO I think the vette should of run circles around my bird yeah. Did I feel after driving the vette that it was quicker, yeah. But once I found out the lap times were on the vette. It told a different story. This vette was loose on entry, settled down to apex and then was loose from apex out. You can deffenalty feel the less weight, better brakes(I could dive bomb the corner more than 150ft later than my bird). The car FELT Fast But it wasn't. Until you have driven these things back to back you really cant make a good comparision. But I will say that it opened my eye's.

The vette needed some thing changed around tire pressures were to high and the sway bars were also wrong. I no longer own the firebird, but I will say that my next track car will be a f-body.

John O