SouthFL.02.SS

For years I had heard guys speak of driving "momentum" style- especially Miata guys. I always had a hard time picturing what they meant, not having any karting experience and always having driven a fairly well powered car, point and shoot style.

So, over the past year, I've been pondering around in an RX-8 (long story as to how I ended up in one of these cars), always dropping down too low a gear for a turn, late apexing most turns, in other words- shedding too much speed. My braking was deep enough to catch people, my line was smooth, footwork polished, yet I knew I was not driving this car correctly (no torque available to track out powerfully).

So, last weekend at Sebring, I asked a friend of mine (we attended the same Skip Barber school and he went on to race with Skip in their series, while I went to HPDE's in my street cars, as my own race car has been sidelined for the past few years) to sit with me. Besides racing Skippy cars, he also tracks an S2000 powered Miata (built it himself, and laps Sebring at 2:31 in it).

His comments were a complete epiphany of what momentum driving is all about. In many mid-speed turns which I would drop to 2nd for searching power band, he had me hold 3rd, while turning in much sooner, getting on the throttle much sooner, and carrying much more speed through the turn, at a much lower engine RPM which I was used to.

After a couple laps with him, I was passing cars which had passed me. It was amazing. I was finally driving with momentum! Very smoothly!

Ironically, there was a guy out there in a new Z06 lapping 2:28, giving Radical's hell, driving a horrible line (talk about horsepower and tires!). Lol.

Eventually, I'll ascend back up the hp totem pole, hopefully to an lsx powered car once again, but for now, this humble step backwards in power has been teaching me a lot.

Cheers.

jessedale98

iTrader: (16)

Sounds like a lot of fun. Never too old to learn some new tricks. Sometimes.....just sometimes I wish I was envolved in road racing.

SouthFL.02.SS

^
It's never too late. I just picked up this skill a couple of years ago myself.

jessedale98

iTrader: (16)

But after watching Toyko Drift last week it made me realize......I burn the rear tires right now..... if I Road Raced, i'd be burning all of them. And really....... what fun is it to race like that with an A4? I'd be at a disadvantage.

SouthFL.02.SS

^
I don't race in my street car. HPDE stands for "High Performance Driving Event". Anyone can participate and any car that can brake and turn is a tool for introduction
see www.nasaproracing.com for their HPDE events near you.

As for tires, yes, there is tire consumption at a faster rate than street driving (figure one season of lapping for a set), but hey, that's not too bad.

Cheers.

dailydriver

I hear what you're saying, SouthFL.02.SS.

I'm guessing that the Formula Vee crew learned this very thing MANY years ago!!

WECIV

I figured it would be a lot higher than one pair a season. I cannot wait to get out of school so I can get into roadracing.

W

WECIV

you think you could post up a vid of what you used to do and what you do now...or is there something out there that could explain this a bit better to us?

W

SouthFL.02.SS

Again, I don't race in the RX-8. A set of tires goes a long way. I get about 6 track events out of a decent performance street tire, along with daily driving on a moderately track oriented alignment. Brake pads last about 4 events. There's not too much to be spent. Brake fluid is cheap.

SouthFL.02.SS

Vee is taking it to the extreme!

SouthFL.02.SS

Here's my amateurish track notes from last weekend:



Here's a horribly filmed (unwatchable in my opinion) vid of me driving the full course. It was filmed using a handheld still camera on mpeg mode (hiding the camera from corner workers- thus the shots of the glovebox- lol). I really need to get a camera mount, it's embarrasing at this point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAtHXMZDzLY

Here's a (much better) video of a Porsche GT3 race car in the hands of a driver with some pretty intense footwork, running Sebring:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UjnbIuJNuI


Here's LG racing at Sebring (note how early he turns in- much to do with defending race line):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk6X4TS3nSg

These guys carry momentum as well as having lots of power (and torque) on tap. Best of both.

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Momentum driving is about minimizing all things that scrub speed ... turn the wheels to make a corner, scrubbing speed.

No lazy turns ... instead of straightline brake then turn, use the car sliding sideways to accomplish both ... blip and stab the gas.

Use the curbing to rotate the car, swerve the car to slow the car, left foot brake ... just never lift! Keep air flowing through the motor because there is no torque to use as a crutch.

Here is momentum racing. I'm driving a 96 Firebird, LT1/T56, RESTRICTED to 230 RWHP. A restrictor plate is inserted between the TB and intake to reduce HP so that it's brought down to stock power levels of a 5.0 or 4.6 Mustang (79-94).

Please, right click and save as ...
http://www.lawmotorsports.net/R4.wmv

About 9 minutes in you see I missed a shift and got my doors blown off.
And the 2 Mustangs that go whizzing by are in a different race class.

SouthFL.02.SS

Thanks for showing the vid. Lots of throttle modulation heard throughout the vid as you're chugging through turns (RPM wise).

What tires were you running?

mitchntx

iTrader: (14)

Toyo Proxes RA1
255/50/16

It's a spec tire.

SouthFL.02.SS

Familiar with it. Thanks.

WECIV

Thanks very much, y'all!!!

W

WECIV

Trail braking is braking hard in a straight line followed by less braking while turning...correct? Any tips on such things? I am guessing it is to keep weight forward and on the turning tires?

W

SouthFL.02.SS

Yes. And yes.

Trail braking helps rotate the car, pointing it to where you want it to go.
It also makes your brake zone shallower, as a chunk of braking is taken away from the straightline portion and added to the turn.

Any tips? Imagine a string tying the bottom of your steering wheel to your brake pedal. The harder you brake, the straighter the wheel will be pulled by the taught string. As you turn, the string will pull up on the brake pedal. The more you turn, the more the pedal will be pulled up, in a gradual stroke. At full turn, the string will not let you push on the brake pedal any longer, as being tied to the bottom of the steering wheel, it would have no slack at this point. This is pedal modulation in relation to steering.

The inverse applies to the accelerator pedal. If a string tied it to the steering wheel, one would only be able to go WOT with the steering wheel near straight up and down (pointing straight). If the wheel is turned, the accel. pedal would be lifted by the string, only allowing some throttle to be used. This is the case when powering out of a turn after apexing. As your hands open up (bringing the steering wheel straight), one is able to pour on the throttle.

WECIV

The string analogy is awesome. That really makes sense. Thanks.

Trail braking helps rotate the car...is this because you have more grip on the front or are you using the brakes to actually rotate the car? If you are using the brakes to rotate, how does that work?

Thanks!!!

W

SouthFL.02.SS

Yes, with weight on the nose and on the front contact patches, the front tires will turn the car better while the light rear will want to come around. Do this in a controlled fashion and you can point the car using rotation. Too much weight on the front and you'll overwhelm the front tires and they won't turn (they'll just plow). It's a dance.