i'm going to be purchasing my first set of R-compounds for auto-x this season.

the tires i'm looking at are:
kumho v710s
kumho v700 victoracers
toyo ra-1s

being as this is my first set, i'm not even considering hoosiers right now.

can you guys give me some ideas of how they compare grip wise, AND longevity wise, ie how many events can i get out of a set.

i'm running 275/40-17s on 17x9 wheels.

thanks
tony

 

The Kumho v710s is your best bet they will give you the most grip with good longevity. I had a set last me through the whole season running about 8-9 events and about 5-6 40sec runs. I have not had any first hand experience with the toyo's but from what I understand is that they last a long time but do not offer as much grip as the V710 or v700.

 

the 710s have the best grip out of any tire. but they dont last. you cant use them on a road course, theyll overheat and cord in 2 laps. you also have to keep an eye on their temperatures. they can and will heat cycle themselves out, giving up alot of grip long before the tread runs down. ive seen it happen. if youre doing several runs in quick succession during a hot day, youll have to cool them down with water to save them and get more life out of them.

i know of someone with a 3rd gen formula that, last year, got around 100 individual runs on his 710s. but by then, they had heat cylced out and lost alot of grip. so much so that i was able to consistantly beat his times at our local autox, with his car having better brakes, little better susp., and about 5yrs more autox expierance then me.

they are also very expensive. you have to look at how often youll be racing, and how competitive you want to be. is it a big time event like scca, or just a small local club. how many times a year do you plan on racing....10 events or less, without worrying about being super competitive, id look into something cheaper. also keep in mind these tires dont last forever in storage. even though you only used them 10 times in one year, the next year will probably be the last season for them. the rubber will harden and lose its structure. so dont plan on spending $850+ for 710s but keeping them for 5yrs.

the vics are good tires, little cheaper then 710s. many people buy them as their first r-comps. kuhmo says they must be shaved to be used in dry conditions. heat cycling them wouldnt be a bad idea either.....so with the tires, shaving, and heat cycling, youre looking at almost the cost of 710s anyway.

 

EchoMirage, Have you actually ever owned a set of V710's?

I've been running V710's since they came out. My V710's have always lasted and I do both autocross and track events with them. Last year I made it from January to September with my first set which lasted for 8 track days and 8 autcrosses. When I say 8 track days that is 8-10 hours of track time. A far cry from "two laps and they're corded". The V710 is a very good tire and my choice for the ones you listed.

 

I would also have to vote for the V710 out of those listed. And mine have held up pretty good (I do spray them down w/water during my runs most times). As a matter of fact tomorrow will see the set I have now start their second full autox season & I am planning on them lasting me the whole way through.

 

these will be for auto-x only, no track use.

and i would like a set of tires that will last at least 2 seasons or more, maybe 10-12 events per season, between 4-6 runs per event.

thanks
tony

 

yeah i do, i have them right now. and from what everyone, and i mean everyone has told me, do not use these for road courses. if they lasted for you, then maybe you got lucky. i never said they were a bad tire. theyre the best autox tire there is. but i have seen them heat cycle out at just an autox, on an f-body.

 

I have a set of Toyo RA1's in the same size as you and they have been a good tire and quite durable. One advantage to them is that you can drive on them to the events (if they are within reasonable distance) without doing measurable damage. They will do track days no problem are are probably more oriented for that use.

This season I am making the jump to V710's on a 17x11 at all four corners. I have driven on them in the past (a buddy's 98 Camaro) and they are much stickier. You can't drive these on the street to an event and expect much life. They will harden (as all performance tires do) over time, so don't expect more than two season's worth of usefulness out of them irregardless of the tread depth. Do store them inside and protect them from extreme temps (hot and cold) as much as possible.

I don't know first hand about using the v710's for track days, so I can't comment on that. I have heard some guys say yes and other say no they get too hot and become greasy etc. etc.

For a pure autocross tire, I'd say the V710's on a spare set of wheels and go have fun.

Check on www.frrax.com for more in-depth info and opinions on everything related to fbody autox and track days.

Good Luck
Chris

 

what about toyo's new R888?
they just started making them in 275/40/17

http://www.racetire.com/products/toyo_r888.htm

i was reading some good things about these some time ago and eventually got sick of waiting for them in my size (ended up going with azenis).

 

Kuhmo seems to think if you're not treating them properly then they will wear abnormally... so perhaps this information wasn't common knowledge to those with problems?

http://sccaforums.com/forums/post/41835.aspx

http://sccaforums.com/forums/post/41894.aspx

I'd also recommend asking on frrax.com

 

If you're new to R's and want them to last, both for auto-x and track days, I recommend RA1 or it's replacement, the R888. Not as much grip as V710 or Hoosier, but much more heat resistant and will last much longer.

I've seen people run V710's on track, and they don't just blister and explode, but it really isn't needed, especially for DE's where there are no timers. A consistent, long lasting tire is much better for DE style events, especially for drivers new to R's.

 

I still think the Hoosiers are the best tire out there, but the v710's are very close to the hoosiers and last a little longer. I run the victo v700's (can't afford the v710's) on my 73 vette and get a full season out of 6 tires. But i run 30+ events a year. The V700's do work pretty good. I recently took overall ftd at the NCCC convention for all pre 82 corvettes. I also can continously beat c4's and non-z06 c5's on hoosiers and v710's.

If you can afford it, get the V710's and enjoy yourself. If you need a cheaper tire and can give up a little grip get the Victo v700's.

 

did you have the vics shaved, or are you running them with tread?

 

No I don't have them shaved. I've never seen the real purpouse to it for me. That's just like throwing money away. It costs more to have them shaved and you get less life out of them. Sure it may be slightly quicker your first time out on them, but they wear out faster also. I can't afford a lot of tires so I try to get as much out of a set as I can.

 

I work for a race team and we run V710s for our series with V700s at full depth being our rain tires. I wouldn't suggest running the 700 at full depth in the dry, if you push them they will chunk. The 710s are good tires but don't last nearly as long as Hoosiers, they also seem to be more picky about inflation pressure and camber and will wear unevenly if one or both aren't right. We go through 10 sets a weekend so I get to see a lot of tires come through on a lot of cars.

If you are just getting into R compound tires I would suggest the RA1 as some others have already said. They aren't as sticky as the others and also shouldn't be run at full tread in the dry but they'll still outlast just about everything else out there. You can also run them until you see the cords and they just keep getting faster the more you use them. If you get a set shaved to 4/32nds you'll get plenty of life out of them and don't have to worry about tread squirm like you will with a full depth tire.

 

Just for reference, the purpose of shaving a tire is to make it last longer during dry driving. If you run a tire at full tread (not talking about 710s or hoosiers that don't have tread even when new) the lugs will squirm a lot under load and will actually overheat the tire. If you run them long enough or hard enough you'll start to see chunking as the tire comes apart. You will also run slower times on full tread tires because of the overheating and uneven amounts of grip as the tire degrades. If you get a set of full treads and drive them "nicely" until they are low enough to be considered shaved you still won't have a good tire because they won't have the same shape as a properly shaved tire and have already been heat cycled enough times to make them much harder.

Bottom line, if you want to race (as opposed to just a driving event) suck it up and get a set of shaved tires.

 

thats what i figured as far as shaving goes. i dont think that vette guy was well informed. as far as money goes, as of tireracks prices right now, the differance between heat cylced 710s and shaved vics is $120 for 275/45/17. for that little of a diff, id go with 710s.

 

wheres the best place to buy r-comps and have them shaved??

also, is it better to shave to 4/32 or 6/32?

thanks
tony

 

tirerack probably has the best prices, and fast shipping. the purpose of shaving is to shave down ALL the tread, not leave just a little. i think tirerack shaves to 3/32, which basically turns them into slicks.

and keep in mind, depending on where you buy and what model you buy, adding the cost of shaving to the tires and perhaps heat cycling, they will be at or near the cost of pure slicks anyway.

 

Shaving to 6/32s isn't really shaving a tire, get them shaved to 4/32s and you'll be much happier.