I won the 2008 NASA Nationals Championship! vid inside!
09-26-2008, 05:46 PM
#41
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not sure. he surely blamed me for all the contact btween myself and him. in fact, he was trying to get me DQ'ed after the race.
the one thing i will admitt to is....... when he placed his car on the left or right edge of the track, i moved over to keep him there. none of my moves were to position myself soi could make contact. it was all in order to gain an advantagious position on track. thats racing. it was one of the top races i've ever had as far as the battle goes.
the one thing i will admitt to is....... when he placed his car on the left or right edge of the track, i moved over to keep him there. none of my moves were to position myself soi could make contact. it was all in order to gain an advantagious position on track. thats racing. it was one of the top races i've ever had as far as the battle goes.
1st... I didn't try to get you DQ'd... I'm the only one that DID NOT FILE paperwork against you... others did.
2nd... I called it like I saw it... and I'm glad you finally admitted it... My whole point... was that you drove your car left... on a sweeping right hander... to force my car out... You call it racing... I call it childish... I've never 'purposely forced someone offline to win a race'... sorry you feel you need to.
3rd... I won the PTB National Championship that day... 5th in AI in a CMC2 car without a restrictor... and held onto 5th on 7 cylinders in CMC. I was still very happy with the Championship weekend... and I've got to say Racing in Amercian Iron w/ 20+ Cars... Most all Full Race Prepped Tubular K-Member Mustangs at 10/10ths was a BLAST!
Had we not had the contact, I would have been more than happy to congratulate you... My frustration was purely you purposely forcing my car to the other side of the track... when you would get anywhere close to my door.
You and I had a great time racing all week... and sometimes tempers/styles flare for the big show... it is what it is... you deserve the CMC Championship... you worked hard for it, and for that... any Racer Should be rewarded... I think I would have won even with the contact... had I had 8 cylinders... but that's racing.
Dave
09-26-2008, 09:02 PM
#43
I've watched all the vid I could from a couple different cars. I can't believe all this drama over some "incidental contact".
From Denton's video ...
Glenn was door handle to door handle with Shotz, because his car was wicked loose. Geez, kudos for keeping it on the pavement. It killed his momentum and opened the door.
I didn't see the 70 car turn left, rather stayed straight, forcing the 75 car off line. The line did arc to the right and I think Dave anticipated Glenn turning in earlier than he actually did. That was the first contact I saw. This is the chess game of racing ... forcing a competitor to run the line he chooses. It's racing 101.
The next contact looked like the same scenario, only the players were reversed ... Glenn was left out to dry and similar results ensued.
So if what Glenn did was poor sportsmanship, then it has to go both ways. Unless, Shotz's move was retaliatory. I do give benefit of the doubt.
After Keyhole, I didn't see any contact with between 75/70 so there really isn't an argument between them. But, the 75 was drug ... blame it on what ever ... it's a part of the total racing experience. Been there ...
Further along and unrelated to this drama, King ran an FFR almost into the armco ... but that was just racing, I guess and no need for drama.
I also saw the 75 put King 2 wheels off (no contact, just avoidance) in the kink on the back straight ... kinda like what happened to Joey Hand. Think about it. It was on video from the 70 car. Not sure where the link is, but it had to be a puckering experience for Matt. But, that was just racing.
Dave, I've stayed pretty quiet and since the appeals, you have as well. I have no dog in this race. I'm just a 3rd party calling them as it appears. And apparently, the NASA officials agreed with the way I saw it.
Your attitude and post race tirade cost you a tremendous amount of respect from a lot of your peer racers. Sometimes, it's best to just admit you got beat, regardless of the reason, and go gett'em next year.
MHO ...
From Denton's video ...
Glenn was door handle to door handle with Shotz, because his car was wicked loose. Geez, kudos for keeping it on the pavement. It killed his momentum and opened the door.
I didn't see the 70 car turn left, rather stayed straight, forcing the 75 car off line. The line did arc to the right and I think Dave anticipated Glenn turning in earlier than he actually did. That was the first contact I saw. This is the chess game of racing ... forcing a competitor to run the line he chooses. It's racing 101.
The next contact looked like the same scenario, only the players were reversed ... Glenn was left out to dry and similar results ensued.
So if what Glenn did was poor sportsmanship, then it has to go both ways. Unless, Shotz's move was retaliatory. I do give benefit of the doubt.
After Keyhole, I didn't see any contact with between 75/70 so there really isn't an argument between them. But, the 75 was drug ... blame it on what ever ... it's a part of the total racing experience. Been there ...
Further along and unrelated to this drama, King ran an FFR almost into the armco ... but that was just racing, I guess and no need for drama.
I also saw the 75 put King 2 wheels off (no contact, just avoidance) in the kink on the back straight ... kinda like what happened to Joey Hand. Think about it. It was on video from the 70 car. Not sure where the link is, but it had to be a puckering experience for Matt. But, that was just racing.
Dave, I've stayed pretty quiet and since the appeals, you have as well. I have no dog in this race. I'm just a 3rd party calling them as it appears. And apparently, the NASA officials agreed with the way I saw it.
Your attitude and post race tirade cost you a tremendous amount of respect from a lot of your peer racers. Sometimes, it's best to just admit you got beat, regardless of the reason, and go gett'em next year.
MHO ...
09-27-2008, 12:00 AM
#44
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Thanks Mitch for your honest impressions. I have Video of Matt flipping Glenn off on the back straight for him hitting him… Matt didn’t mention anything to me at all about any challenge… so I haven’t seen that piece.
Unfortunately Mitch… Losing respect of a couple of people I don’t know… for being man enough to voice my opinion… they probably weren’t that much of a group to be concerned with for me. I’ve been racing a long time… won a lot of races… and have always treated my competitors with respect on the track… imo it’s the only place it really matters… it’s when your playing with lives. Making someone upset over a difference of opinion… and worrying about what they may think of me for saying it… has never been a road I’m afraid to go down.
My dad feels bad about the plug wire… real bad… I’ve told him not to worry about it… and I’ve stood behind my stance… that it isn’t to worry about… you know… people get flat tires, lose diffs, have engine failures… in the end… they’re all the same… a reason to not be able to win. It just sucks having one be as simple as a plug wire… and on 7 cylinders… and lap 16 of the race… I ran my lap within .7 of the fastest lap set during the race.
Again… Glenn earned the win, and I look forward to battling for it again in ’09.
Dave
Unfortunately Mitch… Losing respect of a couple of people I don’t know… for being man enough to voice my opinion… they probably weren’t that much of a group to be concerned with for me. I’ve been racing a long time… won a lot of races… and have always treated my competitors with respect on the track… imo it’s the only place it really matters… it’s when your playing with lives. Making someone upset over a difference of opinion… and worrying about what they may think of me for saying it… has never been a road I’m afraid to go down.
My dad feels bad about the plug wire… real bad… I’ve told him not to worry about it… and I’ve stood behind my stance… that it isn’t to worry about… you know… people get flat tires, lose diffs, have engine failures… in the end… they’re all the same… a reason to not be able to win. It just sucks having one be as simple as a plug wire… and on 7 cylinders… and lap 16 of the race… I ran my lap within .7 of the fastest lap set during the race.
Again… Glenn earned the win, and I look forward to battling for it again in ’09.
Dave
09-27-2008, 12:46 AM
#45
In another life, I was a crew chief for a street stock team. We had an alternator go TU and so we were swapping batteries between heats.
Terry was well on his way to his first A-main win and the car just died about 1/2 way through the race. I didn't get the battery tied down ...
Many, me included, have followed your "career" through the SCCA ranks. I've been a member on SCCA forums forever it seems and having never competed in the SCCA at any level. It was disappointing to see your comments about Glenn and his driving at Nationals. I honestly hope you have been able to re-asses your opinion, realize that posting as you did while still in the "heat of it all" was not the smartest move and move on.
Post race and post tech, Glenn sought out Matt, they exchanged opinions, each making the other aware of circumstances neither knew about and parted friends. Denton's video showed exactly what happened ... unfortunate, but certainly not intentional.The 2 of you should have done the same thing. But, hind sight, right?
I have raced against Glenn for several years and your description just didn't make sense to me. I'm not defending his actions nor am I condoning them. It's just not the same competitor I've raced against.
He drives hard, no doubt and he drives right at the edge. But him deliberately banging into another car in order to gain a position just isn't what we do here in Texas region. No one does, including Glenn. And if I asked some of the left coast competitors, they would probably say much teh same thing about you.
Your comments, though, have reinforced my repeated tirades that ANY contact is unacceptable, all the while realizing in a spec series where all the cars and drivers are separated by fractions of a second, it will happen. It's inevitable. It's the conduct after wards that makes the series fun or not so fun.
Glenn, James, Chuck, Nick and I have had a great mentor in teaching us the "chess game". It's the intangible track performance that allows a racer to win or lose. My first win ever came from using a car as a pick as it re-entered the race track after spinning. I didn't have the fastest car nor was I a superior driver. I just took advantage of what was presented me and created a situation that hindered my competitor.
Advantage was taken at the 08 NASA Nats ... fortunate for the 70 car and unfortunate for the 75.
09-27-2008, 09:06 AM
#46
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it is a shame that you (Dave) came w/in 3 ft of my car and couldnt come talk to me. instead you went to an innocent bystander - one who wasnt even racing and and verbally attacked him. i had every intention of coming to you and talking to you until i learned about how upset you were. i know not to approach a pissed off racer, so i didnt. i waited for you to come to me. i wasnt mad. but i got more and more disappointed in you knowing you were pissed when i knew i wasnt at fault.
you did call me and thats more than i thought you would do. i didnt get to the phone in time and once i listened to the voice mail, i figured it best to not return the call.
as for my moving you "off line" - well read the CCR. if your on the far left of the track and i'm at your door, you have to follow the left side of the track. i was leaving you a full car width (or more). i only have to leave you 3/4 of a car at that apex. seems your race car was the one that turned right on a hard left for the 2nd contact. i did turn left (on a left turn no less) an was greeted w/ you turning right. if we are both in the wrong, its a 50/50 at fault here.
you also tried to drive me off track in the keyhole. that was what let Matt King get under both of us and make it 3 wide.
not sure what the point is about you turning your fastest lap on the last lap. i run 1:59's at Texas World Speedway. one race i lost all gears but 4th. i ran the whole race in 4th having to hold the shifter in gear w/ one hand and drive w/ the other. i ran 2.02's and finished 2nd. i learned alot about how to get close to the same lap times w/ less gear (power). we've all done it Dave. its no big deal. in fact, of the top 5 cars, all of them turned their fastest lap on the last lap except me. i once started a race at Mid Ohio w/ no power stearing (big deal on a 4th gen). i managed to pass 5 cars in a 20 minute sprint race. i learned to drive what i had under me. you did the same. kudo's to you.
the vid is out there. most poeple called it the way NASA did. i plan on being at Miller in '09. not as a rematch, but as a National Championship Race. i hope your there as there will be many many other good drivers there.
you did call me and thats more than i thought you would do. i didnt get to the phone in time and once i listened to the voice mail, i figured it best to not return the call.
as for my moving you "off line" - well read the CCR. if your on the far left of the track and i'm at your door, you have to follow the left side of the track. i was leaving you a full car width (or more). i only have to leave you 3/4 of a car at that apex. seems your race car was the one that turned right on a hard left for the 2nd contact. i did turn left (on a left turn no less) an was greeted w/ you turning right. if we are both in the wrong, its a 50/50 at fault here.
you also tried to drive me off track in the keyhole. that was what let Matt King get under both of us and make it 3 wide.
not sure what the point is about you turning your fastest lap on the last lap. i run 1:59's at Texas World Speedway. one race i lost all gears but 4th. i ran the whole race in 4th having to hold the shifter in gear w/ one hand and drive w/ the other. i ran 2.02's and finished 2nd. i learned alot about how to get close to the same lap times w/ less gear (power). we've all done it Dave. its no big deal. in fact, of the top 5 cars, all of them turned their fastest lap on the last lap except me. i once started a race at Mid Ohio w/ no power stearing (big deal on a 4th gen). i managed to pass 5 cars in a 20 minute sprint race. i learned to drive what i had under me. you did the same. kudo's to you.
the vid is out there. most poeple called it the way NASA did. i plan on being at Miller in '09. not as a rematch, but as a National Championship Race. i hope your there as there will be many many other good drivers there.
09-27-2008, 07:42 PM
#47
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I really hope Miller get's more of our talent to show up... but then I'm concerned about the 'newer' adjustment of CMC2 / CMC levels... and think we may see it end up something like 12 to 15 in each class... vs. a phenomenal battle of something more like 30.
I'd almost be for them just merging everyone now... so that at least CMC gets the participation and respect that it deserves.
Peace,
Dave
