Drivers w/ rear wing/spoiler experience inside please
09-28-2008, 08:03 AM
#21
Lowering under hood temps is probably a good thing if heat is in fact one of your problems. Guess the point I'm trying to make is that everythnig works in concert with one another; Just like suspension adjustments, one thing begets another.
It seems to me like you have a vision of how you want to go about aero development, while having some fun while you're at it. Good luck, and share your progress with us.
Andy1
It seems to me like you have a vision of how you want to go about aero development, while having some fun while you're at it. Good luck, and share your progress with us.
Andy1
Under hood temps are an area that I'd like to investigate, more than a problem. As you know, under acceleration, oil temps increase quickly. I'd like to see if heat extraction has any effect, by reducing coolant & under hood temps..
Yah, it will be interesting for me to learn how a change to one location effects another. Am sure there will be a lot of "why the heck did I want to do that" thoughts as things progress.
Thank-you, & that's exactly right. Want to have fun as I learn more about the aerodynamics. Gotta say though, under car air diffusion may be an area that goes un-tested for me. It appears to be above my, let's say "comfort level."
09-28-2008, 08:22 AM
#23
ON a C5 Corvette
The louvers on the side of the hood allow air to escape from each wheel well. Too much air in the wheel well and there is lift, so that air must be evacuated. However, this guy did not cut holes in wheel well liner above the tires but below the side hood louvers.
The center louvers are behind the radiator. too allow the hot air from the radiator to escape, which also keeps the engine cooler, and means more HP.
The louvers on the side of the hood allow air to escape from each wheel well. Too much air in the wheel well and there is lift, so that air must be evacuated. However, this guy did not cut holes in wheel well liner above the tires but below the side hood louvers.
The center louvers are behind the radiator. too allow the hot air from the radiator to escape, which also keeps the engine cooler, and means more HP.
I wondered why the P1, P2 class American LeMans cars had louvers over the wheel wells; thought it was a new downforce concept. If I choose the higher hood extraction point & then open a few holes, high in the side of the wheel wells, will this serve as a similar method to extract the air from the wheel well?
Am thinking that in his case, there is a cowl hood that is pulling air into the engine bay. Perhaps, for this reason, there was no choice but to locate the extraction point @ the radiator? That hood is both functional & appealing to onlookers; awesome! I'm with you on the raditor extraction point as being one of two proper locations for heat extraction. Thanks, I'm gonna put that pic in the archives. It's the best looking Vette hood I've seen.
09-28-2008, 07:15 PM
#24
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I wondered why the P1, P2 class American LeMans cars had louvers over the wheel wells; thought it was a new downforce concept. If I choose the higher hood extraction point & then open a few holes, high in the side of the wheel wells, will this serve as a similar method to extract the air from the wheel well?
Am thinking that in his case, there is a cowl hood that is pulling air into the engine bay. Perhaps, for this reason, there was no choice but to locate the extraction point @ the radiator? That hood is both functional & appealing to onlookers; awesome! I'm with you on the raditor extraction point as being one of two proper locations for heat extraction. Thanks, I'm gonna put that pic in the archives. It's the best looking Vette hood I've seen.
http://www.corvetteracebodies.com
09-29-2008, 08:24 AM
#25
UPDATE:
Have decided to go with a single 2"x6" vent above the radiator & (2) 4.5"x8" Viper style hood louvers in the higher low pressure area of the hood. This is a little different from the Miata extraction hood pics shown above, but are expected to be as functional.
Here are pics of some of the parts that will be used:
-Deck lid (trunk) for rear wing (arrived Friday)
-Hood that will be used for the hood vents (arrives this week)
-Front air dam (arrives this week)
Rear wing should arrive this week, but, have no pic as of yet.
Again, all aero & extraction changes that are being made can be un-made. This is one of the reasons for the second hood & deck lid (trunk).
Have included a couple pics of the Car as well.
Have decided to go with a single 2"x6" vent above the radiator & (2) 4.5"x8" Viper style hood louvers in the higher low pressure area of the hood. This is a little different from the Miata extraction hood pics shown above, but are expected to be as functional.
Here are pics of some of the parts that will be used:
-Deck lid (trunk) for rear wing (arrived Friday)
-Hood that will be used for the hood vents (arrives this week)
-Front air dam (arrives this week)
Rear wing should arrive this week, but, have no pic as of yet.
Again, all aero & extraction changes that are being made can be un-made. This is one of the reasons for the second hood & deck lid (trunk).
Have included a couple pics of the Car as well.
09-29-2008, 05:07 PM
#26
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Here are pics of some of the parts that will be used:
-Deck lid (trunk) for rear wing (arrived Friday)
-Hood that will be used for the hood vents (arrives this week)
-Front air dam (arrives this week)
Rear wing should arrive this week, but, have no pic as of yet.
Again, all aero & extraction changes that are being made can be un-made. This is one of the reasons for the second hood & deck lid (trunk).
Have included a couple pics of the Car as well.
10-04-2008, 05:32 PM
#27
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ON a C5 Corvette
The louvers on the side of the hood allow air to escape from each wheel well. Too much air in the wheel well and there is lift, so that air must be evacuated. However, this guy did not cut holes in wheel well liner above the tires but below the side hood louvers.
The center louvers are behind the radiator. too allow the hot air from the radiator to escape, which also keeps the engine cooler, and means more HP.
The louvers on the side of the hood allow air to escape from each wheel well. Too much air in the wheel well and there is lift, so that air must be evacuated. However, this guy did not cut holes in wheel well liner above the tires but below the side hood louvers.
The center louvers are behind the radiator. too allow the hot air from the radiator to escape, which also keeps the engine cooler, and means more HP.
10-04-2008, 05:34 PM
#28
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Back on the wing discussion have you look at an adjustable spoiler like this (nascar type):
They info on these is here. I think he made a custom one for an RX7 so I'm sure he can make something for the miata.
They info on these is here. I think he made a custom one for an RX7 so I'm sure he can make something for the miata.
10-04-2008, 06:12 PM
#29
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Am in the process of chosing a rear wing for road course track days. Have narrowed it down to (2). One sits 13" above the deck, is 57" wide & has a little bit wider wing. The other sits 5" above the deck, is 57" wide & has a bit narrower wing. Is there a destinct advantage to using the wing that sits higher on the deck w/ the wider wing? Am leaning toward the lower, slightly narrower wing unless the taller one has a measurable advantage. Am also thinking that the taller wing is gonna create more drag in the straights, which is a minus. Thank-you in advance for your comments.
Wing will be mounted to a removable deck lid & will be used on track days only. So am not concerned about the gawdy look.
Wing will be mounted to a removable deck lid & will be used on track days only. So am not concerned about the gawdy look.
Diffuser makes air exiting the underside of the car straighter. When exiting straighter that means faster which means lower pressure under the car or more down-force. None of this works if your car body rolls it is all lost when splitter height changes or underside of the car.
Rocker panels keep air from spilling under the car and raising air pressure which results in less down-force.
goggle some books on race car aerodynamics and spend a few bucks to understand the basics. If you do the basics it will work fine and you don't need a wind tunnel of hours of testing. Also rake is important in your car to create a low pressure area under your car.
10-05-2008, 07:00 PM
#31
Speedpup,
Thanks for the comments. Am planning on my first test this comming Friday, weather permitting.
-Wing is mounted on the track day deck lid
-Front air dam is installed (looks great, hope I don't end up having to remove it).
-re-routed my brake cooling ducts. Aligned them to the air intake ports on the air dam.
-Hood should be here tomorrow & hood vents have arrived.
-Rake is something that I worked on while learning the best set-up for the suspension
(12.75" front, 13.25" rear).
-Re-adjusted the front end alignment in preparation for the track day; more camber & am gonna try 1/32" per side toe-in. Previously had 1/32" per side toe-out. We'll see whether or not I like it better this way.
-Have tweaked the tune a bit to double check proper fueling during WOT.
I previously stated that a third air extraction louver would be installed, centerally & lower near the nose; similar to the Corvette hood shown above. Since then, have done a few "yarn" tests & have decided better of it. Can't comment about how the air movement is on the Corvette hood, but on my hood, the yarn located closer to the nose was dancing (raising up off of the hood, indicating higher pressure). So, have decided to only use the (2) extraction louvers mounted in the location shown in my previous pics. The yarn located in this position lay flat & stable (low pressure).
Thanks for the comments. Am planning on my first test this comming Friday, weather permitting.
-Wing is mounted on the track day deck lid
-Front air dam is installed (looks great, hope I don't end up having to remove it).
-re-routed my brake cooling ducts. Aligned them to the air intake ports on the air dam.
-Hood should be here tomorrow & hood vents have arrived.
-Rake is something that I worked on while learning the best set-up for the suspension
(12.75" front, 13.25" rear).
-Re-adjusted the front end alignment in preparation for the track day; more camber & am gonna try 1/32" per side toe-in. Previously had 1/32" per side toe-out. We'll see whether or not I like it better this way.
-Have tweaked the tune a bit to double check proper fueling during WOT.
I previously stated that a third air extraction louver would be installed, centerally & lower near the nose; similar to the Corvette hood shown above. Since then, have done a few "yarn" tests & have decided better of it. Can't comment about how the air movement is on the Corvette hood, but on my hood, the yarn located closer to the nose was dancing (raising up off of the hood, indicating higher pressure). So, have decided to only use the (2) extraction louvers mounted in the location shown in my previous pics. The yarn located in this position lay flat & stable (low pressure).
10-16-2008, 04:19 PM
#32
UPDATE:
Didn't make it to the track last Friday. Am gonna try again for tomorrow. Here are some updated pics of the car in it's "new" track trim. Don't ask me why, but I went ahead & added rear under car air diffusors (homemade) which is an area that I said wouldn't be addressed. Anyway, the diffussors are more of a ramp to keep an air bubble from building against the inner rear skirt (fasia). Pic 15 shows how the (2) homemade pieces turned out. The hood air extraction vents turned out beautifully & will probably be left in place, even for off course driving. The wing, however, will definately come off when not on course. There's also a side pic of the car to show the front air damn & a general overall shot of the set-up.
I also went back to 1/32" toe out on the front wheels. Toe in pretty much sucked during my test drives.
SCCA will be test & tuning during our open track day, for their weekend races. Should make for an interesting day.
Didn't make it to the track last Friday. Am gonna try again for tomorrow. Here are some updated pics of the car in it's "new" track trim. Don't ask me why, but I went ahead & added rear under car air diffusors (homemade) which is an area that I said wouldn't be addressed. Anyway, the diffussors are more of a ramp to keep an air bubble from building against the inner rear skirt (fasia). Pic 15 shows how the (2) homemade pieces turned out. The hood air extraction vents turned out beautifully & will probably be left in place, even for off course driving. The wing, however, will definately come off when not on course. There's also a side pic of the car to show the front air damn & a general overall shot of the set-up.
I also went back to 1/32" toe out on the front wheels. Toe in pretty much sucked during my test drives.
SCCA will be test & tuning during our open track day, for their weekend races. Should make for an interesting day.
10-17-2008, 09:06 PM
#33
Some pics from the track day. The SCCA tech rep weighed my car, all 4 corners, which was interesting. Learned that in order to keep up w/ the guys whom do this often, a bigger oiler cooler is gonna be needed, as I need to maintain 4-6K. Further, street tires gotta go. Guys helped me to find a better suspension set-up as well. So, other than a ***** in an AWD STI that wouldn't wave me by in the passing zones, it was an ok day. I have no opinion of the aero mods because my tires in 48* weather were killing traction. Have never run in that cold a temp before.
