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It looks like you have a Sonnax Smart Shell & a Sonnax Performance Pack Shift Kit, Note the Wave Spring on top of the Pinless 2nd accumulator piston in your picture.
Is there a "Check Valve" above the 3rd Accumulator check ball?
.490" O-ringed Boost Valve?
Purple Pressure Regulator spring?
Purple Primer spring?
Plugged PWM hole in the Plate (Only hole plugged)
Accumulator Valve Spring Shim? Take that out & throw it away!
Pinless 4th & Forward Pistons?
One piece TCC PWM Regulator Valve? (No Isolator Valve).
If the shift kit is all there & installed correctly, You don't need the Trans Go HD-2 in the rebuild kit above,
And if you do want to use the HD-2....You got to pull Sonnax Servo Release Check Valve out, It does not work well with TG's recommended Plate orifice sizes. You cannot use the Pinless 2nd Accumulator piston with TG accumulator springs.
I personally would reuse the Sonnax Shift Kit & the Smart Shell, In my opinion Both are excellent products albeit expensive, But it seems you already have them.
Thank you for the detailed post. Ya when I started this I was worried about miss matching parts that don't work together with what's in there and what I may or may not put in there from a rebuild kit nor would I know any better
Last night after reading your post I went to the garage to check everything you were asking about that has to do with Sonnax kit and to the best of my knowledge that I could tell I do have all that.( took a bit of googling to know what I was looking for lol )
So this morning I dug up my last rebuild receipt because other than that I have no idea where the Sonnax performance kit would have came from and the Sonnax Performance Pack HP-4L60E-01 http://www.makcotransmissionparts.com/S74507HPK.html was installed.
As far as a rebuild kit, I have not ordered anything yet. In that kit I posted I was not going to use the heat treated shell for I have the smart shell like you mentioned so my question is, if I were to call Performabuilt and talk to them would I be able to miss match parts/tweak a kit ?
Last edited by 98CayenneT/A; 03-17-2016 at 05:20 PM.
Sonnax updated the Reinforcement Kit to work with a Bonded Steel Forward Piston, Not that I ever had an issue with using a Bonded piston with their older kit or using Aluminum Overrun Pistons with Bonded Forward Pistons in general. The new Sonnax part# is 77733-51K, Runs about $65-$70.
Your Sprag Assembly looks serviceable, with a new sprag. PBA's instructions that Bbond posted is solid advice.
Clean all the burnt clutch material off & make sure ALL lube holes are clear!
Replace the Torrington bearing that the Sprag Assembly rides on.
Also Replace the Overrun Return spring assembly, The Torrington & Return Springs got subjected to a ton of severe heat.
Clean the Input Drum really well & carefully inspect for cracks, Tap the drum with a wrench while holding the Input Shaft, It will make a very CLEAR Long Lasting bell sound if no cracks are present, Replace the 3-4 check ball capsule.
But as mrvedit pointed out...Buying a New Drum is a safer approach for a beginner, My cost at a Local GM dealer is around $125.
You will need a new/good used Forward Clutch Apply Plate, Does NOT come in steel modules. If the Forward Backing plate has hot spots, Replace. Good time to order a Thicker one if the Forwards were a little loose.
Replace the 3-4 Apply & Backing Plate 100%.
Ok, I will do all that has been recommended.
As far as the input drum goes, I checked it a couple days ago and it rings VERY clear and for a very long time when tapped.
With me working with different metals sometimes at my job I feel the input drum is fine and free of hair line fractures/cracks but that is my educated guess and I am comfortable enough to reuse it, again unless serious advised not to....
WOW, Clinebarger has a good eye to notice you have the Sonnax Performqnce Pack, which is a good alternative to the Transgo HD2 shift kit.
Determine if you have the Sonnax Reinforcement Ring kit installed; post a picture of the bottom of the drum if not sure. If yes, that would help explain why you have the aluminum forward piston which cracked.
Details:
The first version of that kit came with a barely modified overrun piston which required an aluminum forward piston. Some people (related to FLT?) designed an alternative billet overrun piston which could be used with the stock steel forward piston; this is what I use. Sonnax then came out with a 2nd version of the Reinforcement Ring kit which also uses a billet overrun piston so that you can use it with the stronger steel piston.
Assuming your have the Reinforcement Ring installed, you should get hold of a billet overrun piston so that you can use the stronger steel forward piston. If you cannot get it for less than $75 from Sonnax, contact FinishLine Transmission (FLT - owner is Chuck) as he has a custom one available for a bit less than that.
WOW, Clinebarger has a good eye to notice you have the Sonnax Performqnce Pack, which is a good alternative to the Transgo HD2 shift kit.
Determine if you have the Sonnax Reinforcement Ring kit installed; post a picture of the bottom of the drum if not sure. If yes, that would help explain why you have the aluminum forward piston which cracked.
Details:
The first version of that kit came with a barely modified overrun piston which required an aluminum forward piston. Some people (related to FLT?) designed an alternative billet overrun piston which could be used with the stock steel forward piston; this is what I use. Sonnax then came out with a 2nd version of the Reinforcement Ring kit which also uses a billet overrun piston so that you can use it with the stronger steel piston.
Assuming your have the Reinforcement Ring installed, you should get hold of a billet overrun piston so that you can use the stronger steel forward piston. If you cannot get it for less than $75 from Sonnax, contact FinishLine Transmission (FLT - owner is Chuck) as he has a custom one available for a bit less than that.
Yes, very good eyes by clinebarger ! I have a feeling he saved me a lot of confusion and headaches for I would have not known any better
Here is a picture of my input drum, I do not think I have it but if I'm wrong could you point out what I'm looking at wrong, thanks much guys
Also for the forward apply plate, how are they measured? I'm seeing two, one is 4.30mm and the other says 6.44mm.
Also should I get a new forward wavy steel?
Last edited by 98CayenneT/A; 03-17-2016 at 01:43 PM.
That does look like the steel reinforcement ring. Leave it on and don't try to remove the input shaft.
Looking at my receipt again and cross referencing part numbers again I did have the reinforcement sleeve kit installed.
I apologize guys for not being as organized as I should of been, but did not think my last rebuild would effect anything. Then last night after the Sonnax kit was pointed out decided to look at my last rebuild receipt. I will go threw the previous rebuild receipt and post up what was done.
Also for the forward apply plate, how are they measured? I'm seeing two, one is 4.30mm and the other says 6.44mm.
Also should I get a new forward wavy steel?
That Metric **** threw me off.....The 4.30mm is the one you need, The Forward Wave can be reused....They are always discolored like that.
Show us a picture of the Overrun Piston (Top side), If it has the Return Spring Locator "Nubs", Your suppose to use a Aluminum Forward Piston.
There is a used Sonnax Billet Forward Piston on E-bay right now for $50, http://www.ebay.com/itm/700R4-4L60E-BILLET-FORWARD-PISTON-SONNAX-ALUMINUM-4L65E-7004R-4L60-HEAVY-DUTY-/131741765866?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368 This will probably be your cheapest solution if you have the older Overrun Piston.
I have used a Steel Forward Piston & OE Aluminum Overrun Piston together in the past on some personal builds, Most notably my old '70 C10 with a 600hp 427 BB & a 700R4. I beat the hell out of it with the Overruns "On" in D3 at 225 psi for years without issue. But people have obviously had problems with the Overrun piston coming out of the Forward Piston & hanging the Overruns "On" which would put you right back in the situation your in now.
I wonder if people are air-checking the Overruns with the Forwards at rest with loose Forward Clutch clearance & blowing the Overrun piston out of the Forward Piston???? I am in no way debating the Part Mismatch here, Just discussing what I have experienced in real world testing.
You could machine down the Apply Legs on the Forward Piston to tighten up the Overrun clearance therefore reducing Overrun Piston travel, But then you have to tighten up Forward Clutch clearance, This may be/probably more than $50 dollars worth of work for you?
I have used a Steel Forward Piston & OE Aluminum Overrun Piston together in the past on some personal builds, Most notably my old '70 C10 with a 600hp 427 BB & a 700R4. I beat the hell out of it with the Overruns "On" in D3 at 225 psi for years without issue. But people have obviously had problems with the Overrun piston coming out of the Forward Piston & hanging the Overruns "On" which would put you right back in the situation your in now.
I wonder if people are air-checking the Overruns with the Forwards at rest with loose Forward Clutch clearance & blowing the Overrun piston out of the Forward Piston???? I am in no way debating the Part Mismatch here, Just discussing what I have experienced in real world testing.
You could machine down the Apply Legs on the Forward Piston to tighten up the Overrun clearance therefore reducing Overrun Piston travel, But then you have to tighten up Forward Clutch clearance, This may be/probably more than $50 dollars worth of work for you?
Here is a picture of the overrun piston with the nubs. And I purchased the forward piston that you posted.
How much would I have to grind down the apply legs on the forward piston? .050 ?
Last edited by 98CayenneT/A; 03-17-2016 at 08:59 PM.
For the "inner" seal on the overrun piston, use the "purple" speedometer O-ring. They come in all Paper & Rubber kits or Overhaul kits and 1996 and up transmission, the seal is not being used for the speedometer anymore. I machine the Forward steel piston to get .015" - .020" overrun clutch clearance to keep the outer overrun seal from coming out of the piston. It has worked out very well for me. Now that Sonnax offers the new overrun piston for the steel forward piston, this would be a easier way to go and simpler for most people.
For the "inner" seal on the overrun piston, use the "purple" speedometer O-ring. They come in all Paper & Rubber kits or Overhaul kits and 1996 and up transmission, the seal is not being used for the speedometer anymore. I machine the Forward steel piston to get .015" - .020" overrun clutch clearance to keep the outer overrun seal from coming out of the piston. It has worked out very well for me. Now that Sonnax offers the new overrun piston for the steel forward piston, this would be a easier way to go and simpler for most people.
I didn't know the Speedo Housing seal fit the modified Overrun piston, Thanks PBA!
Ordering a few more random parts.
Forward apply plate .17
3-4 clutch return spring ( early style )
But I'm hung up on the overrun return spring. Mine does not have the bottom retainer and I'm struggling to find this exact part. Will others with the bottom retainer still work with the "nubs" on the overrun piston?
Thanks for the patience guys..... Stuff is starting to make a bit more sense
It doesn't give much info.... What are you going to do with the 3-4 Clutch setup? Part wholesalers just throw crap together, Whatever frictions are cheapest is probably what goes it their kits.
I recommend a Borg Warner Friction Module (with 6 .080" 3-4 frictions) 34036KIT is the Borg Warner number, Buy 1 extra BorgWarner .080" 3-4 friction for a total of 7.
6 .077" 3-4 Steels.
3-4 Apply Plate GM# 8685044
3-4 Backing Plate GM# 24212460.
Stock Borg Warner Hi-Energy 2-4 Band.
Ac-Delco Filter & Pan Gasket kit.
Last edited by clinebarger; 03-18-2016 at 09:36 PM.
It doesn't give much info.... What are you going to do with the 3-4 Clutch setup? Part wholesalers just throw crap together, Whatever frictions are cheapest is probably what goes it their kits.
Ok, ya that's not a kit I was looking at buying, that's what was used by the previous shop for there rebuild. That was what came up with the part number reference off my last build receipt.
It doesn't give much info.... What are you going to do with the 3-4 Clutch setup? Part wholesalers just throw crap together, Whatever frictions are cheapest is probably what goes it their kits.
I recommend a Borg Warner Friction Module (with 6 .080" 3-4 frictions) 34036KIT is the Borg Warner number, Buy 1 extra BorgWarner .080" 3-4 friction for a total of 7.
6 .077 3-4 Steels.
3-4 Apply Plate GM# 8685044
3-4 Backing Plate GM# 24212460.
Stock Borg Warner Hi-Energy 2-4 Band.
Ac-Delco Filter & Pan Gasket kit.
As far as the 3-4 goes I was kicking it around today. Originally I was going to buy a good rebuild kit like the one I posted on the first page when you saw I already had the sonnax performance kit. Then was thinking... would I be nuts to order as I go with this being my first build? Ordering as I go is the way I'm leaning I think
Ordering a few more random parts.
Forward apply plate .17
3-4 clutch return spring ( early style )
But I'm hung up on the overrun return spring. Mine does not have the bottom retainer and I'm struggling to find this exact part. Will others with the bottom retainer still work with the "nubs" on the overrun piston?
Thanks for the patience guys..... Stuff is starting to make a bit more sense
Yours looks pretty good, The springs appear to be straight. I would not use the late (Steel Piston) return spring assembly with the bottom cage removed. There is a spring height difference.
I addressed the different overrun spring cages in post 33 and 34 of my rebuild thread as well as the part number.
In my case, my new steel pistons didn't have the nubs to lock in the spring cage, so I ordered the new style spring case and everything worked just fine. My 4l60e was a '96.
03-17-2016, 08:21 AM
! I have a feeling he saved me a lot of confusion and headaches for I would have not known any better
