Hooker 1964-67 A-body LS swap system preview thread
#141
The crossmember depicted in this thread will not install on any A-body model with a boxed frame. Those cars will require their own specific crossmember, which will be developed in the future.
#144
Time to talk about drivetrain/U-joint working angles.
I've installed a driveshaft into the Lemans today taken driveshaft angle measurements for a few different guys who have inquired about what can be expected in that regard when using the Hooker engine brackets and transmission crossmember.
In order for the information to be relative, a description of the car set-up needs to be given so that you'll have an understanding as to how it might compare to your particular car. Thankfully, this Lemans was delivered to me with an upgraded aftermarket rear suspension system (stock 10-bolt)with 1" drop springs and adjustable upper control arms, which made it a breeze for me to match the rear pinion angle to the transmission yoke angle for ease of taking measurement that are easier for the average guy to understand.
The 1" drop of the rear suspension is quite common, so this car is in the ballbark of what a lot of guys will be using...if you are lowering your car in the rear more than that amount (like a 2" drop for example), you will more than likely have to cut and modify the tunnel over your transmission and add shims between the transmount and the crossmember to achieve acceptable angles. If you are running a 9" Ford rear end with a 2" rear suspension drop, you might just squeak by without having to cut the floor due to the lower height of the pinion in those rear ends.
With the LS engine/4L80 trans installed using the Hooker forward-bias engine brackets and the Hooker transmission crossmember, the driveshaft angles depicted in the attached photo measured as follows:
Transmission yoke= 2.7 degrees down
Driveshaft= .7 degress down
Pinion= 2.7 degrees up
For those of you who have been studying up on your driveshaft math, these angles equate to 2 degree operating angle at both the front and rear U-joints.
In order to achieve these results, the body bushings need to be in good shape and you'll have to do some slight deadblow/ball pien hammer clearancing of the tunnel in a few areas that will be spelled out in the Hooker crossmember instructions.
I've installed a driveshaft into the Lemans today taken driveshaft angle measurements for a few different guys who have inquired about what can be expected in that regard when using the Hooker engine brackets and transmission crossmember.
In order for the information to be relative, a description of the car set-up needs to be given so that you'll have an understanding as to how it might compare to your particular car. Thankfully, this Lemans was delivered to me with an upgraded aftermarket rear suspension system (stock 10-bolt)with 1" drop springs and adjustable upper control arms, which made it a breeze for me to match the rear pinion angle to the transmission yoke angle for ease of taking measurement that are easier for the average guy to understand.
The 1" drop of the rear suspension is quite common, so this car is in the ballbark of what a lot of guys will be using...if you are lowering your car in the rear more than that amount (like a 2" drop for example), you will more than likely have to cut and modify the tunnel over your transmission and add shims between the transmount and the crossmember to achieve acceptable angles. If you are running a 9" Ford rear end with a 2" rear suspension drop, you might just squeak by without having to cut the floor due to the lower height of the pinion in those rear ends.
With the LS engine/4L80 trans installed using the Hooker forward-bias engine brackets and the Hooker transmission crossmember, the driveshaft angles depicted in the attached photo measured as follows:
Transmission yoke= 2.7 degrees down
Driveshaft= .7 degress down
Pinion= 2.7 degrees up
For those of you who have been studying up on your driveshaft math, these angles equate to 2 degree operating angle at both the front and rear U-joints.
In order to achieve these results, the body bushings need to be in good shape and you'll have to do some slight deadblow/ball pien hammer clearancing of the tunnel in a few areas that will be spelled out in the Hooker crossmember instructions.
#146
I'll have to see if I can find a suitable point of reference to take a measurement from that could easily be repeated by someone wanting to take the same measurement. I may just post the assembled height of the engine brackets and mounts as that can easily be compared to any other type of mount/swap plate/frame stand assembly.
#147
Joejbal, here's a photo of the Hooker 64-67 A-body engine bracket assembled with the 4th-gen F-body engine mount it's designed for use with. A comparative measurement will be easy for anyone to take in or out of their vehicle to understand if their current engine bracket/mount set-up is making the job of achieving desirable U-joint working angle more difficult than it needs to be by placing the engine higher than it needs to be.
The summed height of the engine mount assemblies provides half of the geometry characteristics needed to achieve desirable U-joint working angles, the other half is the fore/aft positioning of the engine/trans mating plane they provide, which is critical depending on the particular transmission that is being used in the swap.
The summed height of the engine mount assemblies provides half of the geometry characteristics needed to achieve desirable U-joint working angles, the other half is the fore/aft positioning of the engine/trans mating plane they provide, which is critical depending on the particular transmission that is being used in the swap.
#148
A user on another forum recently asked me about clearance between the long-tube headers I just prototyped and the starter as well as the Quicktime T56 bellhousing. I posted photos on the other forum earlier today and thought I'd include them in this thread also for the benefit of everyone following the development of these new Hooker components.
#150
#151
Wow. You have the engine in quite a bit further forward than I have mine installed. My power steering pulley is parallel with the power steering pump high pressure line. But, I do have Vette accessories vs. your truck accessories. Have any photos of the centerlink to oil pan clearance when the steering is turned to full lock?
#153
Yes, the Holley 302-2 pan has allowed me to achieve fitment characteristics in many LS swap applications that otherwise would be impossible. I forgot the mention previously that the inner tie-rod ends and center link shown in the photo are Pro Forged parts and they are noticeably larger than the stock pieces I removed from the car. This means a user won't have to worry when they upgrade/rebuild their suspension that upgraded aftermarket parts won't clear the pan at full lock.
#154
Headers look good. I may consider them but I am not going to rip stuff apart and start over.
I have the hooker adapter plates , car shop BOP adapters and ES short and wide mounts. The adapters, mounts and engine plates have a 3.625 install height. So my engine is close to the same install height as the Holley prototypes.
So I can get an idea if the headers will work...I am curious to know...
How close is the front edge of the 302-2 pan sump to the back side of the front crossmember? I am running the 302-1 pan and figuring the delta between the 302-1 pan and 302-2 pan, I would have about 3/4 " space between the crossmember and the pan if I would be running the 302-2 pan.
I have the hooker adapter plates , car shop BOP adapters and ES short and wide mounts. The adapters, mounts and engine plates have a 3.625 install height. So my engine is close to the same install height as the Holley prototypes.
So I can get an idea if the headers will work...I am curious to know...
How close is the front edge of the 302-2 pan sump to the back side of the front crossmember? I am running the 302-1 pan and figuring the delta between the 302-1 pan and 302-2 pan, I would have about 3/4 " space between the crossmember and the pan if I would be running the 302-2 pan.
#155
Headers look good. I may consider them but I am not going to rip stuff apart and start over.
I have the hooker adapter plates , car shop BOP adapters and ES short and wide mounts. The adapters, mounts and engine plates have a 3.625 install height. So my engine is close to the same install height as the Holley prototypes.
So I can get an idea if the headers will work...I am curious to know...
How close is the front edge of the 302-2 pan sump to the back side of the front crossmember? I am running the 302-1 pan and figuring the delta between the 302-1 pan and 302-2 pan, I would have about 3/4 " space between the crossmember and the pan if I would be running the 302-2 pan.
I have the hooker adapter plates , car shop BOP adapters and ES short and wide mounts. The adapters, mounts and engine plates have a 3.625 install height. So my engine is close to the same install height as the Holley prototypes.
So I can get an idea if the headers will work...I am curious to know...
How close is the front edge of the 302-2 pan sump to the back side of the front crossmember? I am running the 302-1 pan and figuring the delta between the 302-1 pan and 302-2 pan, I would have about 3/4 " space between the crossmember and the pan if I would be running the 302-2 pan.
#156
You guys hiring? How cool is it to get to develop hot rod parts all day long!
My question is on the headers, will they be available separately? What is the primary size and what kind of collector attachment will they use? I have built my own motor and trans mounts for my Lsa/ tr6060 combo in my 66 Chevelle. Mounts have overall height ovf 3.25 inches. Cylinder head sits about 3/4 inch off firewall and Holley 302 oil pan has a 1/4 inch to the crossmember. Bottom of oil pan still sits even with crossmember.
Do you think I will have clearance issues? I know it's a hard question to answer but from your pics of the prototypes they seam to have quite a bit of room.
Any guesstimate? Thanks
My question is on the headers, will they be available separately? What is the primary size and what kind of collector attachment will they use? I have built my own motor and trans mounts for my Lsa/ tr6060 combo in my 66 Chevelle. Mounts have overall height ovf 3.25 inches. Cylinder head sits about 3/4 inch off firewall and Holley 302 oil pan has a 1/4 inch to the crossmember. Bottom of oil pan still sits even with crossmember.
Do you think I will have clearance issues? I know it's a hard question to answer but from your pics of the prototypes they seam to have quite a bit of room.
Any guesstimate? Thanks
#157
You guys hiring? How cool is it to get to develop hot rod parts all day long!
My question is on the headers, will they be available separately? What is the primary size and what kind of collector attachment will they use? I have built my own motor and trans mounts for my Lsa/ tr6060 combo in my 66 Chevelle. Mounts have overall height ovf 3.25 inches. Cylinder head sits about 3/4 inch off firewall and Holley 302 oil pan has a 1/4 inch to the crossmember. Bottom of oil pan still sits even with crossmember.
Do you think I will have clearance issues? I know it's a hard question to answer but from your pics of the prototypes they seam to have quite a bit of room.
Any guesstimate? Thanks
My question is on the headers, will they be available separately? What is the primary size and what kind of collector attachment will they use? I have built my own motor and trans mounts for my Lsa/ tr6060 combo in my 66 Chevelle. Mounts have overall height ovf 3.25 inches. Cylinder head sits about 3/4 inch off firewall and Holley 302 oil pan has a 1/4 inch to the crossmember. Bottom of oil pan still sits even with crossmember.
Do you think I will have clearance issues? I know it's a hard question to answer but from your pics of the prototypes they seam to have quite a bit of room.
Any guesstimate? Thanks
#159
You could tell for sure by buying a replacement 4th-gen F-body engine mount from your local parts house to check things over (they're only about 10 bucks). I forgot to mention previously that the headers will be available separately and are designed to use a slip-connection on the collectors for connection to an exhaust system. They will be available in 304SS only upon their initial release and be constructed from 18 gauge material...you'll be able to get them with 1-3/4" or 1-7/8" primaries and 3" collectors. Flange thickness is 3/8".