5.3 + LQ9 cam + new 862 heads need build advice
08-04-2016, 11:34 AM
#21
If it were mine, I would verify with a mechanical gauge, cut the oil filter open and and inspect the element and listen carefully for any odd noises. If all that is good, I would run it without worry. Just keep an eye on the oil pressure to make sure it doesn't start falling off.
Thanks, Will do. I will put the mechanical on it and see what its really doing. The blower has straight cut gears so its hard to hear due to blower noise so that makes it difficult.
08-04-2016, 12:15 PM
#22
If it were mine, I would verify with a mechanical gauge, cut the oil filter open and and inspect the element and listen carefully for any odd noises. If all that is good, I would run it without worry. Just keep an eye on the oil pressure to make sure it doesn't start falling off.
08-04-2016, 12:55 PM
#24
However for me to pull the heads I automatically need new gaskets... the knotched heads require graphite gaskets which aren't easy to get and I think only victor reinz and cheap domestic gaskets on ebay are available. Which Ive heard hit or miss about the ebay gaskets. Since I would go new lifters/trays etc it would be smart to just have the heads freshened up... valve job, guides checked, seals, cleaned and then throw some light home porting at them. But all this adds up and i'm still stuck with the shitty knotched heads. So getting already rebuilt heads with no knotches is definitely going to happen as I want to run MLS gaskets for piece of mind and an overall better seal to limit the possibility of me having to tear it all apart again. Dissasmbling the the heads for port work is just time since all the freshening has been done. Throw $60 LS6 spring on them and let them eat. Ported heads and the stock cam would likely show improvements on their own but obviously a cam would improve them even more.
I was just mentioning it might not be worth the time/effort to do so if the head gaskets aren’t leaking at this time. Heads and gaskets you have now *should* stay down with a good tune and take quite a bit more cyl pressure. Notched heads aren’t horrible either. The CC ring seals are the ones to worry about. The notched area isn’t by anything very important. Eliminating the notched head and putting an MLS gasket on the engine alone isn’t going to do anything for you power wise, and if they aren’t leaking…
This is very true and a welcomed truth. Running 10psi now is 10psi to make 500ish hp. If I could make 600hp on 6-8psi I would be more happy. I dont need high boost numbers, that doesnt mean squat to me, low boost is better anyway for tuning purposes and lowering engine/IAT temps etc. My blower (torqstorm) is only good for about 700-750hp estimated, I run the smallest pulley I can which is why my boost is at 10psi at 5k. I was told it should make 10-12psi on a stock 5.3. I have been getting some belt slip at 5k at 7-9psi depending on load and how much throttle I have in it. But I have visually seen 10psi on my innovate gauge but the logs only showed 9.8psi or something. Gona crank the belt a smidge more. The added benefit of lower boost but more HP means the less chance for belt slip. I dont get belt slip until over 7psi sometimes, they told me its hard to keep the small 3" pulley from slipping at higher boost. To keep the boost in the 6-8 means I'm less likely to get slip. The boost only allows me to run a very tame stock motor for driveability while the boost gives me the power I want when I want to get on it. Its actually a great setup honestly and couldnt be happier. I'm still tempted to change the heads and lifters/trays and throw it all back together just to freshen the top end up and just leave the cam. The cam part is annoying as I have to pull the front cover.
The blower is going to spin at the same speeds regardless of the amount of boost it makes. If you have the pulleys setup to spin it to 60k at 6500 RPM it’s going to spin that RPM regardless of the boost it’s putting out, it’s working just as hard. So I’m pretty sure it’s just as likely to slip?
I’d be concentrating on better belt wrap and getting slippage under control before other upgrades. Being able to take the motor to 6500 ish will give you your biggest bang for the buck by raising boost. Did you see the poor mans belt wrap thread a while back on here? Something like this would be well worth the effort IMO.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...rap-fbody.html
Dont the Gen 3 have press fit pistons and the shitty rod bolts? I thought spinning the gen 3 above 5500 is pushing your luck. I agree about not pushing it hard, I would like to be able to spin to 6k when wanted and the motors current cam is all done by 5200. I can't increase boost anymore, smallest pulley installed. The blower brand new only cost 3k complete... its a cheap little blower but high quality, only issue is your limited on power. Its a street blower so it makes boost very quickly which makes it fun.
Depends what ones definition of “shitty” is. The GEN3 stuff is not as good as the GEN4, but its more than good enough IMO to spin the engine to 6500 and make around 750 flywheel without much in the way of aftermarket parts. Whoever told you 5500rpm is pushing your luck is mistaken, or trying to sell you some rod bolts.
For example:
I ran 6800RPM and 20ish lbs of boost on my gen3 motor for a full season running low 9 second passes with tons of street miles. Zero trouble. I bumped it up to 26lbs the last race day of the season made an 8 second pass @ 153! (this was an 8.6:1 $220 Gen3 5.3 ) It let go next pass on the 2 step. I think the Autozone timing chain I was running broke from the 2-step hammering it… but it was a total melt down so who knows.
Always keeping an eye out, almost picked up a 6.0 a couple of times. I still dont feel like I'd push this gen 3 motor hard enough to warrant the strength of a gen4. Feel like the gen 3 limits are the rods/pistons. Going to a gen 4 would mean if I got a custom cam for my gen 3 it wouldnt be transferable to the gen 4 block due to cam sensor placement etc.
That’s not true about the cam. Any 3 bolt aftermarket cam *should* be interchangeable between a Gen3/Gen4 engine. All the cams I’ve run have the 2 tooth “wheel” molded into the back of the cam for the gen3 rear timing pickup. The gen4 setups use a different timing cover and different cam gear with the 4 tooth cam pickup.
Last edited by Forcefed86; 08-04-2016 at 01:02 PM.
08-04-2016, 01:26 PM
#26
I was just mentioning it might not be worth the time/effort to do so if the head gaskets aren’t leaking at this time. Heads and gaskets you have now *should* stay down with a good tune and take quite a bit more cyl pressure. Notched heads aren’t horrible either. The CC ring seals are the ones to worry about. The notched area isn’t by anything very important. Eliminating the notched head and putting an MLS gasket on the engine alone isn’t going to do anything for you power wise, and if they aren’t leaking…
Agreed, its not worth it if I'm not pulling the head. But to do a cam swap, or even to replace the lifters I have to yank the head. GM put these heads on with GM gaskets 17 years ago. I dont have access to the good GM graphite gaskets they used... so I'm forced to use cheap gaskets or victor reinz. That puts me at a disadvantage already due to the lesser quality gaskets. The MLS gaskets wont offer better performance but they are more available in better quality gaskets and more than likely to fail alot less than cheap graphite. I have looked at some of the reviews for the graphite gaskets and people are claiming failed gaskets after 2 weeks etc on stock motors. I would like to do it once and not pull the head again unless wanted.
The knotch in the head i used with MLS gaskets will leak coolant, so I would say its in an important enough area that your forced to use a lesser gasket material.
The blower is going to spin at the same speeds regardless of the amount of boost it makes. If you have the pulleys setup to spin it to 60k at 6500 RPM it’s going to spin that RPM regardless of the boost it’s putting out, it’s working just as hard. So I’m pretty sure it’s just as likely to slip?
Yes, it will spin at the same speed no matter the engine displacement. Its not working as hard though you need to remember. Say At 60k at 6000rpms I'm making 10psi and 500hp, i put ported heads and a cam on (everything else is the same) and now I'm only making 6psi spinning 60k at 6000rpms but making 600hp. The blower while spinning just as fast has to work LESS to make the same power due the motor being more efficent at consuming the airflow (boost is a measure of restriction). With less boost the impeller/SC need to work less against the pressure pushing back on the SC/impeller. Less load on the SC means less heat and less stress on the belt that causes slippage. COnsider boost as the LOAD put on a supercharger and belt, restriction = boost and boost = resistance on the belt. Besides internal mass energy, kinetic and frictional put on the pulley/belt for slippage. I will guarantee that I will see less belt slip running less boost at the same RPM while making more HP.
I’d be concentrating on better belt wrap and getting slippage under control before other upgrades. Being able to take the motor to 6500 ish will give you your biggest bang for the buck by raising boost. Did you see the poor mans belt wrap thread a while back on here? Something like this would be well worth the effort IMO.
Yea I saw it, unfortunately it doesn't apply to my supercharger as its not a main stream brand like vortec/paxton/procharger etc. Mine uses a manual belt tensioner. Room isn't really available unless under the SC which isnt alot of room. I will look into it.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...rap-fbody.html
Depends what ones definition of “shitty” is. The GEN3 stuff is not as good as the GEN4, but its more than good enough IMO to spin the engine to 6500 and make around 750 flywheel without much in the way of aftermarket parts. Whoever told you 5500rpm is pushing your luck is mistaken, or trying to sell you some rod bolts.
Gotcha! well thats good news for me! One less thing to have to purchase and take apart!
For example:
I ran 6800RPM and 20ish lbs of boost on my gen3 motor for a full season running low 9 second passes with tons of street miles. Zero trouble. I bumped it up to 26lbs the last race day of the season made an 8 second pass @ 153! (this was an 8.6:1 $220 Gen3 5.3 ) It let go next pass on the 2 step. I think the Autozone timing chain I was running broke from the 2-step hammering it… but it was a total melt down so who knows.
That’s not true about the cam. Any 3 bolt aftermarket cam *should* be interchangeable between a Gen3/Gen4 engine. All the cams I’ve run have the 2 tooth “wheel” molded into the back of the cam for the gen3 rear timing pickup. The gen4 setups use a different timing cover and different cam gear with the 4 tooth cam pickup.
08-06-2016, 12:47 PM
#27
Verified oil pressure with a Stewart Warner mechanical gauge. I have 40psi cold idle mechanical and electric which both drop to 35psi a few min after warming up. Decided to pull the gauge and go for a drive.
Motor is running good and has 40psi oil pressure running around town. Which drops back to 25-20psi warm at idle.
I did notice a slight tick on the pass side when I pulled in my tent after 16min beating on the car. I had a small exhaust leak at the header flange on that side and then re Torqd the bolts so it might still be there or its a slight lifter tick. It's loud enough to be heard over the Supercharger tho and open BOV on that side.
Recieved stock used rockers for my strain bushing retrofit.
Motor is running good and has 40psi oil pressure running around town. Which drops back to 25-20psi warm at idle.
I did notice a slight tick on the pass side when I pulled in my tent after 16min beating on the car. I had a small exhaust leak at the header flange on that side and then re Torqd the bolts so it might still be there or its a slight lifter tick. It's loud enough to be heard over the Supercharger tho and open BOV on that side.
Recieved stock used rockers for my strain bushing retrofit.
08-10-2016, 12:48 PM
#28
hey guys. received the used Lq9 cam in the mail the other day. Been doing alot of reading on cams in the 5.3, the 205/210 to the TFS cam and cam motions selections.
So I have a couple of questions. I want to run LS6 valve springs in the new heads, I run them in my current 862s and they have worked great and cost is like $62 for 16. What is the max lift comfortable to run on the LS6 springs in the 862 before valve float is an issue or coil bind/PVC? From what Ive seen its a .560 max lift on LS6 springs. I also know that boost affects the spring rates since it has to fight the manifold pressure.
Another question is what will I gain by ditching the stock 99 truck intake for the TBSS version. I know the TBSS flows much more than the LS1 and car intakes and about equal to the LS6... but this is all in NA applications. What about a forced induction application like mine. I know head flow etc doesnt matter as much due to how flow changes with air being forced in vs sucked so thats why its easy to make 800hp with stock heads with more boost! Trying to justify a $175 intake then 4 bolt to 3 bolt adapter and no EGR hole for my IAT sensor. If I had an LS1 intake i would do it but is their that much of a difference between the stock truck intake vs TBSS in a boost application? I think the TBSS intake is a better looking intake than the standard truck intake which is the only positive unless it makes more power.
So I have a couple of questions. I want to run LS6 valve springs in the new heads, I run them in my current 862s and they have worked great and cost is like $62 for 16. What is the max lift comfortable to run on the LS6 springs in the 862 before valve float is an issue or coil bind/PVC? From what Ive seen its a .560 max lift on LS6 springs. I also know that boost affects the spring rates since it has to fight the manifold pressure.
Another question is what will I gain by ditching the stock 99 truck intake for the TBSS version. I know the TBSS flows much more than the LS1 and car intakes and about equal to the LS6... but this is all in NA applications. What about a forced induction application like mine. I know head flow etc doesnt matter as much due to how flow changes with air being forced in vs sucked so thats why its easy to make 800hp with stock heads with more boost! Trying to justify a $175 intake then 4 bolt to 3 bolt adapter and no EGR hole for my IAT sensor. If I had an LS1 intake i would do it but is their that much of a difference between the stock truck intake vs TBSS in a boost application? I think the TBSS intake is a better looking intake than the standard truck intake which is the only positive unless it makes more power.
08-10-2016, 01:31 PM
#29
Should give you a good idea on intakes. Not that large of a gain IMO. Also the TBSS had a 90mm TB on that test and the truck intake had a 78mm. So not a super accurate test IMO.
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/20-ls...ifolds-tested/
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/20-ls...ifolds-tested/
08-10-2016, 03:28 PM
#31
NA performance has a direct relation to boosted performance. If you gained say 10 crank HP at X RPM it’s safe to say that amount will double with every BAR of boost you run. (minus the blower/head efficiency losses.) The TB needs to be sized to the engine’s NA needs. In your case you won’t pick up much from a larger TB, I agree.
What I was getting at is they used a large cube engine in testing that did benefit from the TB size increase. So the TBSS over the Truck intake gain’s look little inflated IMO. If they used the same size TB on those 2 tests I believe the 2 intakes would have been closer. No doubt the TBSS intake is better, but probably not worth the cost/effort in your case IMO.
If you do go that route I went with the ICT billet TB adapter. It was a really nice piece for the money I thought. I’m running the 78mm on my TBSS intake on my latest project. (haven’t fired it yet)
http://www.ictbillet.com/ls-throttle...bc-551511.html
What I was getting at is they used a large cube engine in testing that did benefit from the TB size increase. So the TBSS over the Truck intake gain’s look little inflated IMO. If they used the same size TB on those 2 tests I believe the 2 intakes would have been closer. No doubt the TBSS intake is better, but probably not worth the cost/effort in your case IMO.
If you do go that route I went with the ICT billet TB adapter. It was a really nice piece for the money I thought. I’m running the 78mm on my TBSS intake on my latest project. (haven’t fired it yet)
http://www.ictbillet.com/ls-throttle...bc-551511.html
08-10-2016, 04:13 PM
#32
While I would agree tat the amount of power will be double at a given RPM depending on boost. Boost is a measure of restriction which means less restriction (ported heads, larger intake) could increase efficiency and thus decrease boost while making more power. Less boost means less work by the blower and less heated air into the motor.
Thats what I figured as well. That 6.0 wasn't stock and even then its a 6.0 vs a 5.3. The 4.8,5.3 and 6.0 all used the same intake though so i figured it couldn't be that much of a restriction and all with the 78mm TB.
How did you do the throttle cable bracket? All TBSS intakes came with Electric throttle bodies so they dont have brackets or mounting bosses for cable TBs. I run a cable TB (not a fan of the electronic). IF your running a cable TB can you post pics of how you set it up?
Thats what I figured as well. That 6.0 wasn't stock and even then its a 6.0 vs a 5.3. The 4.8,5.3 and 6.0 all used the same intake though so i figured it couldn't be that much of a restriction and all with the 78mm TB.
How did you do the throttle cable bracket? All TBSS intakes came with Electric throttle bodies so they dont have brackets or mounting bosses for cable TBs. I run a cable TB (not a fan of the electronic). IF your running a cable TB can you post pics of how you set it up?
08-11-2016, 09:31 AM
#33
The same will still hold true. If you increase the output NA via cam/head etc... The NA power will rise and that number will still double per atmosphere added. Stick a 102mm TB on a bone stock 4.8 and you aren’t going to gain much over the 78mm. Do the same with a 427 and there will be a notable difference. Point being NA or boosted, It’s all relevant.
Haven’t gotten to the TB cable yet. Just finished mocking up hot/cold sides. Side tracked on another project at the moment. Looks like there are 2 screw holes near the TB that would work well for a cable bracket thou.
Haven’t gotten to the TB cable yet. Just finished mocking up hot/cold sides. Side tracked on another project at the moment. Looks like there are 2 screw holes near the TB that would work well for a cable bracket thou.
08-11-2016, 10:14 AM
#34
How thick is the adapter?
Yea I see the 2 thread bosses but they bracket would have to be custom made. No biggie but more work lol.
I agree about the boost and how it affects everything. Intake flow, head flow etc. But NA vs boost is completely different with boost when it comes to cam choice.
The TBSS vs stock truck intake is like how you pointed out the 78mm vs 102m on a 4.8L, the TBSS intake on a modified 6.0 produced more power, but on a mostly stock 5.3 with boost I dont think its worth the trouble/cost of swapping. I wish someone had tested intakes on a stock 5.3.
side note, is that an EGR hole on behind the TB? I wonder if I can use that location for my IAT sensor like I have on my tuck intake. Thats also whats stopping me with the swap as I would have to relocate my IAT sensor and the MAP is all the way at the TB lol.
Yea I see the 2 thread bosses but they bracket would have to be custom made. No biggie but more work lol.
I agree about the boost and how it affects everything. Intake flow, head flow etc. But NA vs boost is completely different with boost when it comes to cam choice.
The TBSS vs stock truck intake is like how you pointed out the 78mm vs 102m on a 4.8L, the TBSS intake on a modified 6.0 produced more power, but on a mostly stock 5.3 with boost I dont think its worth the trouble/cost of swapping. I wish someone had tested intakes on a stock 5.3.
side note, is that an EGR hole on behind the TB? I wonder if I can use that location for my IAT sensor like I have on my tuck intake. Thats also whats stopping me with the swap as I would have to relocate my IAT sensor and the MAP is all the way at the TB lol.
08-12-2016, 12:16 PM
#38
About $265 new... Get someone with a racer discount and it's less ordered form summit. They suggest aftermarket springs with that cam.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/t...FYGHaQodRFgAEg
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/t...FYGHaQodRFgAEg
08-12-2016, 01:41 PM
#39
yea, i get coupons every couple of months from summits credit card so i could get the cam for like $230is new.
LS6 springs are rated to .570" lift, trickflow cam is .560" which is prob cutting it too close. I dont really want to run anything more than the LS6 springs due to how hard it is on the lifters etc. Ive been hearing about alot of issues with the LS7 lifters (repalcements for all LS motors).
So while the cam lifts are basically maxing out the LS6 springs I have no idea how aggressive the lobe are which matter way more than the lifts but also boost adds to the spring issue.
LS6 springs are rated to .570" lift, trickflow cam is .560" which is prob cutting it too close. I dont really want to run anything more than the LS6 springs due to how hard it is on the lifters etc. Ive been hearing about alot of issues with the LS7 lifters (repalcements for all LS motors).
So while the cam lifts are basically maxing out the LS6 springs I have no idea how aggressive the lobe are which matter way more than the lifts but also boost adds to the spring issue.
08-12-2016, 01:53 PM
#40
That’s a pretty mild cam and the single PAC1218’s are a mild spring. I’ve never had a lick of valve train issue with mine. Now I run a larger cam with the PAC1518 which is a much heavier single spring… Still never had a valve train issue on factory untouched rockers revving to 6800 with a 224/224/ .610 lift cam. Also I run 2:1+ worth of back pressure which is another 40psi or so in the exhaust system.
I hear ya though. If you want to run the baby spring, stick to baby cam IMO.
I hear ya though. If you want to run the baby spring, stick to baby cam IMO.