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You can read the amount of timing being taken out via the analog output wire from the LNC-2000 (or LNC-2001 or LNC-2014). You can view this with a simple voltmeter or you can add it as an input to an EFILive V2 cable or HPTuners Pro cable. EFILive even has the variable already defined as an auxiliary input so it does the voltage to timing retard conversion for you.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for this information. I do run HPTuners pro and will try and find the info or if you could post up the volt to degree scaling. I never heard of the TCS method before and havent got a chance to look into it yet but I think thats the way I'm leaning now if its going to work. The first time I read about EFI Live being able to update the operating system to control timing for nitrous I was a little butt hurt. If the TCS works it would be the same thing in HPTuners making me feel a little better.
Looks like I generated a good thread for discussion.
So can the experts weigh in on if there would be any issues with using this method for my car? Its a 98 with a relatively small shots (75-100) on a daily driven car.
A wideband is always good to keep an eye on if everything is working like it should.
Do you have software to tune yourself? If you do you can make the tune change at the track and just change timing for the shot you run that won't cost anything.
Rene, a IAT tricker is a resisror wired in on a switch to the IAT. Depending on the ohm's of the resistor it will tell the computer a false temperature. Then in the tune for what ever temperature your resistor is showing you change the timing values to what ever you need. I personaly think its better to use a temp above 113 as here in Pa we dont ever see that.
As Nitrous Oulet pointed out you cant adjust the timing being pulled. This is true but it dont take to much out of the box thinking to set a couple resistors so you can target a couple different temps. Set up the different temps with different amounts of timing for differents shot sizes.
As for the TCS method. I opened up HPTuners tonight and under Engine/Torque Management/General/Retard vs RPM and Aggressive Retard vs RPM there is timing tables to adjust. I always assumed that fueling was tied in to but I havent found it yet. When I get a chance I'm going to test this to see how it works and if it messes with fueling at all.
Rene, a IAT tricker is a resisror wired in on a switch to the IAT. Depending on the ohm's of the resistor it will tell the computer a false temperature. Then in the tune for what ever temperature your resistor is showing you change the timing values to what ever you need. I personaly think its better to use a temp above 113 as here in Pa we dont ever see that.
As Nitrous Oulet pointed out you cant adjust the timing being pulled. This is true but it dont take to much out of the box thinking to set a couple resistors so you can target a couple different temps. Set up the different temps with different amounts of timing for differents shot sizes.
Bad info.
We don't use resistors. We use a 5-pin relay to completely disconnect the IAT signal. This way it functions 100% normal when not needed, and use the COLDEST column in the IAT spark correction table to adjust timing, a column that you won't see unless you are driving your nitrous car at 4 AM during a northern Canadian winter. The IAT will retain 100% functionality until the nitrous relay is activated. No resistor.
This gives you full control over how much timing is being pulled. You can adjust it however you want, up to -25 degrees.
We don't use resistors. We use a 5-pin relay to completely disconnect the IAT signal. This way it functions 100% normal when not needed, and use the COLDEST column in the IAT spark correction table to adjust timing, a column that you won't see unless you are driving your nitrous car at 4 AM during a northern Canadian winter. The IAT will retain 100% functionality until the nitrous relay is activated. No resistor.
This gives you full control over how much timing is being pulled. You can adjust it however you want, up to -25 degrees.
Not bad info just bad wording. When I said wired in on a switch I meant relay. And there is no need to disconnect it when you want to spray forcing it to the coldest column. With a resistor or resistors you can target one or more temperatures allowing more than one amount of timing to be pulled for different shots.
Again this isnt my pic just an example. Do a search on this site even and see this has been done since around 2000-01. The best example of a IAT tricker is the Harris Speed Works timing interface. Through a series of resistors it targets 5-6 different temps all above normal opperating conditions. It targets higher temps because in the factory tune as temps go up more timing is commanded to be pulled.
Not bad info just bad wording. When I said wired in on a switch I meant relay. And there is no need to disconnect it when you want to spray forcing it to the coldest column. With a resistor or resistors you can target one or more temperatures allowing more than one amount of timing to be pulled for different shots.
Again this isnt my pic just an example. Do a search on this site even and see this has been done since around 2000-01. The best example of a IAT tricker is the Harris Speed Works timing interface. Through a series of resistors it targets 5-6 different temps all above normal opperating conditions. It targets higher temps because in the factory tune as temps go up more timing is commanded to be pulled.
That's a clever way of adjusting timing on a stock tune, but irrelevant if you can adjust the tune yourself. You can bypass the resistor and use the cold column, and adjust timing however you want.
The Harris Speed Works system can be simulated with a few relays, making it irrelevant as well.
Thanks for the explanation on the tricker. The guy I bought my car from said it had a timing tricker on it. Making the pcm thinks it getting colder air than it is. I haven't found anything to confirm that. But he was pointing at the IAT sensor. Could it be a different IAT sensor than stock? I've that this car since '02.
JoeNova your post are some of the few I read on here any more as you do things your way and dont care about the rest. I thought this type of thinking would be right up your alley. Yes the stock tune and Interface is irrelevant. But why wouldnt you or anyone else want to replicate something like it for under $20.
Most people are paying for a tune, and in most cases they are not going to go right to the 150 jets. So if the IAT tricker is the method your going to be using why wouldnt you want one that targets 3 seperate temps. This way when tuner throws in the the 50 jets to start he can set 1 temp for it and as he goes to the 100's then the 150's they got there own temp to. A 150 or 200 shot is awesome at the track but with most cars not so good on the street. So even if you only target 2 temps you can roll around town on 50-100 shot then flip the switch change jets and have 150-200 for the track.
Yes, if you aren't tuning yourself, the resistors make much more sense. My point is that its not the best method for a self-tuner.
As far as the Harris interface for multi-stage timing, the same can be done with a few relays. You will use toggle switches to choose what size shot, and the appropriate resistor will be chosen. You don't get the fueling benefits, but for timing alone, we're talking $10.
Yes, if you aren't tuning yourself, the resistors make much more sense. My point is that its not the best method for a self-tuner.
As far as the Harris interface for multi-stage timing, the same can be done with a few relays. You will use toggle switches to choose what size shot, and the appropriate resistor will be chosen. You don't get the fueling benefits, but for timing alone, we're talking $10.
Exactly. Just used the Interface as an example, the knowledge was around long before he come out with it.
My first experience, in the 1980's, was to use a Potentiometer.(DK@.75 cents)
This was connected to the MAT (IAT) as described above.
This method WILL allow for a "range" of retard values if the EMS "look up table" is so set.
Thus with this potentiometer "dash mounted" the Spark Advance is easily changed.
Lance
I was going to mention this same setup.
The biggest issue is finding one that works in the range you need.
I've used a large rotary switch before to control an entire relay panel of $5 timed relays and it worked fine. I was able to control boost by time on the stock ECU. I've since figured out boost by gear. The only one that likely isn't possible is boost by speed. You can do almost anything if you're clever enough with wiring, something I've only recently picked up.
11-07-2016, 05:37 PM
