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......I think there is the general assumption that if you see angle torques, then the bolts very well may be TTY(I know I assumed it...).....but I could not verify in the service manual or parts manual that the head bolts are TTY. I don't know of any marks on a bolt that would call it out as TTY either.
I never really thought about it in this way, but you make a good point. Most of us have been led to believe that when we see a torque value, followed by an angle of rotation figure, that we're dealing with a TTY fastener. And then, we're generally told that these are "one time usage" bolts. So yeah, I can see where there might be some confusion.....
Torque angle does not automatically mean they are TTY bolts. It's just another method of accomplishing accurate preload. In the case of angle torque, it overcomes inconsistency in torque values from friction.
In my 01 Silverado GM manual for instance, it specifically says for LS engines to throw away the old bolts and replace them with new. It does not mention that anywhere in the LT1 manual. That's not to say replacing head bolts isn't good practice, but in the case of our engines, it's not required.
Just loosened all the bolts on the drivers side head. I thought I broke the first one when it made a loud crack but I guess that's just what they do. Also didn't expect there to be coolant, I'm just letting it drain now. How do you guys get the steam pipe bolts off the backs of the heads? After reading how much trouble they are, my plan was to take both heads off at the same time with a helper and remove them with the heads outside the car. But then how do you get them back on? Is there a special wrench or anything?
Just loosened all the bolts on the drivers side head. I thought I broke the first one when it made a loud crack but I guess that's just what they do. Also didn't expect there to be coolant, I'm just letting it drain now. How do you guys get the steam pipe bolts off the backs of the heads? After reading how much trouble they are, my plan was to take both heads off at the same time with a helper and remove them with the heads outside the car. But then how do you get them back on? Is there a special wrench or anything?
I pull the block plugs out or drain the lower radiator hose if you pull the heads. You will need to drain the oil if you have water in it.
The bolts will break loose like that, especially in old cast iron heads.
As for the steam lines you need to find a wrench that fits it and with the intake manifold off you can reach them.
I drained the oil and coolant before all this but only used the knock sensor and radiator petcock to drain the coolant. I'll take the oil drain plug off and dump a quart or two into the heads once they're on to flush the coolant out hopefully.
If you don't drain the drivers side via drain plug coolant will spill out of those passages when you take the drivers side head off. It's manageable, but will make a bit of a mess.
Got drivers head off, thanks for the tip on the steam pipe. Hows it look? My spark plugs have always shown some oil, I'm guessing the pistons do too? Is it safe to wipe the cylinder walls with a shop paper towel to get the debris out? I already dabbed them with a paper towel to soak the coolant sitting in there, then thought that may have been a bad idea so I used a 60ml syringe to suck the rest out.
1. dont use any rotating tools to clean engine deck it may create uneven spots
2. DO use a razor blade and acetone, being careful not to gouge the surface with the blade
3. I used mineral spirits and a brass brush on the pistons to remove most carbon (but this isn't in the FSM !)
4. fsm say use compressed air to blow out the head bolt holes, make sure you do this and they are DRY DRY DRY inside when finished
5. Never let the engine sit open in the air. Always coat everything EVERYTHING with a light coat of oil, and then some kind of water-proof and air tight covering before leaving it long. I like to have my engine done within a day or two, dont let it sit out or get dry for long.
6. when about to put the new gasket down that is the only time you want the surface DRY just like the bottoms of those head bolt holes DRY. The FSM specifically say ACETONE but you can use brake cleaner also to help DRY the surface.
7. use non-tearing towels, the kind that dont leave little bits all over the place and tear easily
8. dont touch anything with your bare hands. Wear gloves for the entire procedure and dont be cheap about throwing away filthy gloves as you go.
Thanks for the list. Does fsm stand for "f#*king service manual"?
Well it's almost 4am and I've been at this stupid thing for hours. I used a razor blade until it wouldn't scrape anything off anymore. Then wiped with an acetone soaked cloth. Then I used a dremel with a brush attachment, then an acetone cloth again and again and again. There is still an obvious imprint of the old head gasket but it's smooth to the touch. Planning on more of the same tomorrow...
5. Never let the engine sit open in the air. Always coat everything EVERYTHING with a light coat of oil, and then some kind of water-proof and air tight covering before leaving it long. I like to have my engine done within a day or two, dont let it sit out or get dry for long.
I had a question about this. When I take my heads off, I'm going to have to get them checked by a shop. Most shops only operate 9-5. I also work 9-5. So I can really only do the work on the weekends. Its reasonable to believe I'm going to have the heads off for 5 days and I'm not sure I can avoid that. So am I just totally boned on this?
There is still an obvious imprint of the old head gasket but it's smooth to the touch. Planning on more of the same tomorrow...
You won't get rid of that pattern unless you deck the block. As long as there's no material that is caught by the razor blade or a fingernail you're golden. Make sure there is no material around the dowels in the block.
Originally Posted by nodnarb481
So am I just totally boned on this?
No. Usually if you don't clean it there's enough oil/coolant residue on surfaces where it will protect from rust. I've had a used short block on a stand sitting in my garage for 10 years now and still hasn't shown any signs of rust, and this is living in a high humidity climate. If you clean it then that's another story. However even for 5 days if there's a little surface rust it won't be an issue. Just wipe it down and go to town.
You won't get rid of that pattern unless you deck the block. As long as there's no material that is caught by the razor blade or a fingernail you're golden. Make sure there is no material around the dowels in the block.
No. Usually if you don't clean it there's enough oil/coolant residue on surfaces where it will protect from rust. I've had a used short block on a stand sitting in my garage for 10 years now and still hasn't shown any signs of rust, and this is living in a high humidity climate. If you clean it then that's another story. However even for 5 days if there's a little surface rust it won't be an issue. Just wipe it down and go to town.
Thanks man, you just knocked my stress level down a few notches.
I had a question about this. When I take my heads off, I'm going to have to get them checked by a shop. Most shops only operate 9-5. I also work 9-5. So I can really only do the work on the weekends. Its reasonable to believe I'm going to have the heads off for 5 days and I'm not sure I can avoid that. So am I just totally boned on this?
Oil the engine then wrap it in a large trash bag, seal the end.
Two things you are protecting from:
1. Atmospheric oxygen is corrosive, causes rust. Moisture in the air (is it over 1%?) helps with rust by being near the surface of the metal. So this is where the coat of oil comes into play- it protects the surface of the metal from water and oxygen, which keep it from rusting.
Without the oil, a freshly washed cylinder block will rust within an hour to an ugly discolored rusty looking engine; and the metal is permanently disfigured in some places by it, impossible to truly revert or clean completely free of rust without removing the rust completely and leaving a hole where metal used to be.
Most people have that part figured out.
What you don't often hear about is the second thing that troubles engines: physical microscopic debris in regular air. Highest quality machines are assembled in clean rooms, where HEPA style filtration removes these impurities from normal air. IF you let an engine (or anything, really) sit out in the normal Earth's air, it will gradually collect debris on the surface, a wide range of debris. Especially if the oil is slick with sticky oil. For starters, pollen and fungus is found everywhere in the world in open air, and each is a form of life which contains innumerable compounds including metals such as magnesium, iron, molybdenum, sodium, potassium, and other elements such as sulfur and of course carbon and other obvious life materials. The point here is that without some kind of sealed container, even with oil, the engine exposed surfaces are still at risk.
Yes that's one of the big concerns for sure but with the engine still in the car in a typical home garage (or back yard for some people) what can we do? I kept my engine covered so no big particles fell in. I got plenty of debris into the combustion chambers and coolant passages and the only solution I can think of is to change the oil and coolant after 1 heat cycle.
I just pulled the head and let the block sit in its own greasy filth. The drivers head was off 2 days and the block looked okay after I cleaned it. Although once it was clean and dry I noticed rust forming before my eyes around the large coolant holes so I had to hurry and get the head on.
coating it with oil, WD40 or what ever is going to produce a substance that will attract particles whether mold, dust rat crap, You are going to have to clean the block before assembly anyway, throw is some Desiccant packs and bag it and seal it to help keep the moisture at bay...
02-10-2018, 07:07 AM
