AZD

For Pro chargers, what model should I be looking for to get into that price range. The D1SC seems to be a little higher than that

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

D1sc is good for 500 to 800whp range. The P1sc is typically maxed around 600whp. D1sc is usually a minimal price increase over the P1and always has better resale so I would go D1 if the price is decent.

AZD

PROCHARGER 1LS100-D1SC LS TRANSPLANT EFI/CARB SERP H/O W/ D-1SC, would this be compatable with my car?

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

You'd have to confirm with Bob but I don't think so.

AZD

Do you have any tips on how and where to look for D1SC superchargers? sorry im pretty new to cars and this is the first really big upgrade I have tried to do.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

The for sale section or eBay typically has them for sale from time to time.

Game ova

I can't give a definitive number as all setups... be it turbo or supercharger are different. But you typically won't see a street blower setup putting down 800-1000ft/lb of torque. More often than not, we tend to focus on Hp figures, but torque is an important part, as it makes the car fun to drive at low speeds...instead of being way up top constantly to have fun.

AZD

NSFW

From a stop you can use launch-control rev limiter (car stopped + clutch pressed = rev limit changed to 4500 RPM, or whatever suits your setup) to build a few pounds of boost before launching.

From a roll... I dunno about V8s really but with my Subaru (where the boost comes on at 4k) it helps a lot to downshift (e.g. into 3rd gear at freeway speeds) to get the RPM up into the happy range before flooring it. It does take a while to build boost if I don't, but boost comes on almost as fast as I can push the pedal down if RPM is over 4k. I'd like to think that a V8 with twice the displacement and two similarly-sized turbos would work similarly (and make about 800whp). All this talk about turbos being slow to build boost has me wondering though.

EDIT: I'm not wondering anymore. It all makes sense now. See my next post.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Torque is usually better at low rpm in a blower until the turbo is spooled and then it will take over and make more torque. From a stoplight or in the twisties the part throttle is going to be better with a blower because it's entirely Rpm dependent and will make boost shortly off idle typically. This is of course a generality. You can spec a turbo to make peak boost at 2500rpms but then it won't carry at high Rpm because it's choking. All about where you want to make power and what you want to shift at. Having had both the blower and turbo, the blower is instant boost keeps pulling until redline, the turbo was more of a hit all at once.

dlandsvZ28

Suggestion when considering an ATI Procharger.

Download or get your hands on an installation manual. It will show you all of the parts necessary for the install. It's the little things that IMO would be annoying to track down used and/or have to pay retail over and above when and if you buy a new complete kit. In other words the parts are cheaper in a kit than if you have to purchase single items. That's just the way it is and am not suggesting that vendors price gouge for single items.

So if you find a used kit try to make sure all of the items are included.

For example, a seller might sell you a complete kit not realizing that the horn relocation bracket comes with the kit. So if they didn't install the kit themselves - they may not know. And if they do take it off, means they will have to find the original bracket to replace it. Same goes for the fan shroud and fan(s) and good stainless steel hose clamps (at least 10 I recall). Buyer beware.

Note: a horn relocation bracket might not be necessary with an FMIC system - perhaps just with the twin intercoolers. Depends on how you route your pipe to avoid the horns.


The installation manual helps to avoid those issues.

Tip: The ATI kit with the smaller three inch hose and twin intercoolers isn't as efficient at the 4 1/2 inch intercoolers. Trust made over 800 rwhp with twin 4.5 intercoolers. But at that rwhp level a big 4 inch high quality FMIC is hands down more efficient.

You speak of 7- 800 rwhp. At that level, IMO, a good methanol injection system is a must. IMO, make sure to include that in your budget.

Lastly - out of curiosity ask the seller if he has any compressor oil or what is currently in the compressor and how many miles. Not always, but sometimes will tell you what kind of maintenance schedule the owner was adhering to. A box of three bottles lasts 5k miles per bottle.

The size of the pulley on the compressor will give you an idea of the boost the seller was running. The D1 stock size crank ATI pulley is 7.65 (stamped on the pulley). The DI stock size head unit pulley is 4.5 (stamped on the pulley). I would have concern if the compressor pulley is less than 4 inches.

The serial number will tell you the age of the compressor.

BrntWS6

iTrader: (7)

I was going procharger for sure. But my local shop does custom turbo installs tuned out the door for about the same price as just the d1sc kit so i changed my mind.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Wrong again.....as usual. Rear feed is NOT for our Fbodys. They will not fit. Thats what I said. Try to follow along. The big *** rear feed SC'ers won't fit in almost any factory GM car....show me some.......GOOD LUCK.

And if you think GM cannot fit a Twin Turbo package into their engine bay if they felt like it....you have no clue how real engineers can make things happen. YET.....100's of other people have already installed TT packages in their Vettes.....so not sure what you're talking about. They chose the Pos Dis SC'er because its 10 times better for any Tom-Dick or harry to get in it and drive it and not have issues with learning how to use the different ways the turbo comes into power.....and out of power. Pos Dis is exactly like driving a Normally Aspirated engine.....

You probably never will....but go drive a TT McClaren....its impossible to figure out until you have many hours driving it. When I drove my bosses McClaren it was pathetic......my Trans Am with 400 RWHP would smoke it on a road course. The turbos SUCK the way they spool up. If you go into a turn and they un-spool just a little bit too much it feels like you're driving a Ford Focus. Then literally 4-5 full seconds later they spool back up. Its crap.

Pos Dis SC'ers are way better than turbo(s) for easy, normal driving, for anyone to jump in and drive perfectly.

.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Now you're learning.....I knew you would understand what I was saying along at some point.....Did you do a lot of reading last night....?

Now you're saying EXACTLY....word for word.....what I told AZD already.

Sometimes it just takes time to sink in.....

LOL...


.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Your posts are hilarious....because I've USED both blowers and turbos....I know the benefits of both. Im not biased and ignorant like you. ONLY useful info youve posted is the existance of this new family of blower. Please go back to buying parts you'll never use.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

ddnspider,

And I am not for SC'ers......I am for a certain power level goal and the best drivability on the street that I can get. My car will be a 100% street car. "AZD" is looking for the same thing. Turbo kit, which I already have, will get me to my power goals. But what a serious pain in the *** to get it all installed and done right, with fabbing and moving radiator and condenser and running new lines and hoses everywhere.
Pos Dis SC'er.......you remove the intake and put the damn thing on.....anyone that says a Pos Dis SC'er is not 100 times easier to install and to manage is a MORON. And all they are doing is lying to people about that HUGE advantage. Turbos have a lot of little things needed that add up the cost, which Pos Dis SC'ers do not have. Working on the engine is MANY times easier because you don't have piping running all over the place.
Blah-Blah-Blah......

But since this new Harrop 2650 is out....and if the 25% more airflow claim is true, then it should also get me over 1,000 RWHP.

So, I am looking into it, and will go that route if it makes the power claims that it should.

And this site.....when someone posts a question, its so they can get all opinions and aspects of different set ups. Nobody here ever said turbos are ****....and ONLY SC'ers are good. But there are absolutely a lot of negatives with turbo set ups that SC'er set ups do not have. And theres a lot of positives that the Pos Dis SC'er has that the turbo set up does not have. "AZD" needs to know that fact.

So when new posters come here to get opinions and questions answered, he should get exactly that, from any other member who wants to give him information or opinions.

If you don't like when people do that....you should log off and not come back. Because thats what this site is all about.

Later.....

.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

Now youre a martyr? You are more arrogant and full of it than I thought. Go back and re-read this thread. All your posts are dripping with bias. You claim all these install negatives with turbos but haven't ACTUALLY installed anything. I help people regularly on this forum through PM's,posts, and stickys....without bias. Try it sometime.

NSFW

This indicates that you've got the engine at an RPM that's well below where the turbocharger needs to be.

What you're waiting for, in that scenario, is not turbo lag. You're waiting for the RPM to increase, so the engine can pump enough air for the turbocharger to work properly. Once the RPM is up into that range, then you can measure actual lag. Drive very briefly above that RPM, at a constant speed (not accelerating) and then stomp on the throttle, and wait for full boost. You'll only have to wait a fraction of a second for that.

If you want a responsive throttle, you just have to get used to living at the top of the RPM range to avoid that 4-5 second wait. Keeping the RPM up above the turbocharger's boost threshold requires shifting a lot more often than non-turbo drivers are accustomed to.

Mass-produced turbo cars usually have a turbocharger that's sized small enough to give instant response by about 2000 RPM so ordinary people won't have to change their driving style. I doubt that's the case for a McLaren, though.

Game ova

Guy....listen. You are flat out wrong on a few things, been trying to stay out but I just can't. You say horrible plug access....melting everything under the hood....overheating .....hoses everywhere....moving radiator. You are absolutely wrong, doesn't have to be that way. In the pics here, I can show you that you are wrong. And as far as overheating, I drive my car to and from the track in the middle of summer with the AC blasting (90 degree weather)..... and none of this overheating you speak of, and this is with an f body. Oh.... and the exhaust you mentioned in another one of your misguided comments..... it's ran out the back in stock location with a magnaflow muffler. Catch those condenser lines?

dlandsvZ28

"Even the perfect system decreases in efficiency with increased outside temperature, dropping about 2 percent per degree Celsius (about 1 percent per degree Fahrenheit). In the real world, the drop in efficiency is even more dramatic; so it's not an illusion when your air conditioner seems to be working harder as the outside temperature increases."

Summer temps over 100 degrees F in KS,OK,TX, AZ, NM are the norm so overheating in an fbody is dependent upon location.

My ProCharged D1 fbody would run all day long and not overheat in 90 degree temps but not keep up over 100 degrees. My completely new AC system (the works) at 105 F is between 15 and 28 percent less efficient than the same system in 90 degree temps.

When you read the temps on the back of the ac condenser (that's air going to and thru the radiator) there's less than a 20-30 degree differential (radiator coolant and temp of air from the ac) . No wonder that the radiator can't keep up with only 30 degrees differential.

Now turn off the ac and if ambient is 90 degrees, the differential is at least 100 degrees or more.

BTW - sitting at a couple of car shows at 6pm in July last summer in KS, the heat generated off of the asphalt was 114 degrees. That's about the temp of the air or even higher going to the radiator and ac condenser at stoplights, parking lots, slow moving traffic etc. That means my AC system is will be running at about 70 percent efficiency in those conditions compared to 85-90 degrees ambient.

So it looks as if the the stock air filter is kept on an Fbody with a positive displacement sc system (based on pics of installs I have seen). Since the engine is an air pump, it acts as an "assist" to draw air up and thru the AC condenser in slow moving traffic or when stopped compared to my ProCharger where stock air filter is removed.

So IMO, that's a plus for the positive displacement system in the cooling category.