I am installing rings in the next 2 days. Just wondering if anyone has any links or extra info I can use for my install? The rings are from Total Seal, they were $80 I think. The Stealership wanted $55 per cylinder which would come out to about $300. With $300 I could've gotten the Total Seal Gapless set! woohoo


I've read all these links that I'll post [enclosure]:
http://stockcarracing.com/techarticles/scrp_0510_rings/
http://shbox.com/1/ring_gap.jpg
http://www.hastingsinc.com/service_tips.htm

 

I've heard that ring gaps touching, can pop the crown of the piston off. I heard ring gaps touching is bad. My ring gaps were touching, and I had compression of 80psi on each cylinder.

 

Would high tension rings wear down the bore/block/cylinder wall? Would it wear first (seeing how I got a Steel compression ring)? Is Steel stronger than Iron(my block is Iron)? What would define them as "High Tension"? I guess I just dont know how to set the gap perfect. I've seen how you're supposed to put the ring square in the cylinder by itself, then file down the gap till it fits right.

what is an appropriate hone job? I tried to do the 60*/45* crosshatch with my stone hone. What does a hone job have to do with sealing once rings are broken in and the hone is gone from ring wear?

 

I'm looking for any help/opinions at all! Its funny how I get more help from an Engine Dealer, like HPE, and less help from the people I bought the rings from (Total Seal).
They have only told me that the ring set I bought is "Steel, which is the best".
Thanks racer7088

 

Yes, you don't want ring gaps touching ever. That's different than the vertical clearance the ring has in it's land which is built into the piston. Why did you think the rings were butting?

 

Well Keith there at Total Seal is very good but they are always very busy. The rings you have should have a part number. There are steel plasma moly rings and steel rings that are coated or chromed for power adder and extreme hp deals. You should know which ones you have but they all need the right finish and the cylinder should be honed in a real hone like a Sunen so the cylinder is round.

 

Yes, the end gaps were touching, and there was practically no vertical side clearance/gap at all! Which would keep the cylinder pressure from pushing the ring against the wall.
I think they were butting because I was running extremely lean like 18s or more range! I'm sure I never had knock. I had alot of random misfires though. p0300

 

I ordered specifically from Keith, hes a great guy. part #CR6684. The top groove is moly steel. The second groove is Cast Comp. I dunno what cast comp stands for.
How does a cylinder get out of round condition? From rings not sealing right in different locations? My bore did not have a ridge at all. I did not have to use a ridge reamer to get the piston out. It has 32k miles. I didnt measure the cylinder's round condition though, I thought it would be okay.

 

Let me take a stab at the cylinder roundness part.

I think he's saying you should Hone the cylinders with a Torque plate to ensure maxium roundness. Plus the machine he's talking about uses different types of stones to produce the correct cross-hatch pattern that will seal and seat the type of rings you have best.

How cylinders become out of round...Heat, Core shift and ,especially in your case, different thrust angles and pressure from the rings being tight. If you were running that lean, then the extra heat could cause the cylinder to shift a little and heat in areas of less stregnth can cause the material to expand and contract at different rates. Kind of creates a ripple effect. Core shift due to the design of the AL block and iron liners. The rings because they were touching and have to apply the pressure somewhere...Outwards. A thin ring will bend and bulg differently. Can't get to a 100% perfect circle especially with a cut/gap in it.

Honing with a Torque plate with the proper stones in a very accurate machine will straighten the hole up and make it more true. That means that the pistons and rings will seal better.

Am I on Track Erik?

 

The stock aluminum blocks cylinders are always sort of out of round. It just happens with heat and stress and time I guess. They never clean up that well as opposed to the iron blocks that clean up in the hone almost instantly.

 

Yes you are!

 

Cool. Glad all the reading has paid off somewhat.

I do need to pick your brain more one day. I still remember the conversation on the phone about...crap 8 months ago? Oiling and the iron block. Convinced me to go iron for sure.

Daniel@SQR or I will be hitting you up soon on the 408 engine for the Camaro.

 

Well thanks and I look forward to it Rich! The irons are much nicer to work with I can tell you that anyday. Daniel is a great guy and he runs a very good shop (SQR) up there. I personally drove Brandons car up there that they tuned and it ran perfect and it had a decent sized cam in it and still drove like stock!

 

forgot to tell you Engineers that this is an all-IRON block. no sleeves. thanks!!
and I got my rings today!! woohoo

 

so am I correct for assuming that my stone honing is sufficient? any new info you want to tell me now that you know its an IRON?

 

what about "oiling and the Iron block?"

 

Haynes told me to do as little honing as possible. So I did as little as possible, just enough to get a 40*/60* crosshatch effect.

 

EZ,

I don't understand some of what you are writing but the cylinders need to be honed right and with a TQ plate for the right bore geometry and the right surface finish for those rings or you will have substandard results. This involves the right equipment and right people that know what they are doing. You can probably do some weird hand hone and if the thing was running alright before it will probably run all right when you are through but thats about it. At least the iron blocks don't go out of round that easily.

 

What do you not understand? I'll try and clarify
Does anyone have a pic of a torque plate? I'll check google.com

 

Ring End Gap has a min and max specification. What is better? To be closer to max or closer to min? I would think being closer to min would let less blowby by. Thanks