Jay-P

iTrader: (16)

...you could start all over with your car from scratch?

I recently purchased a one owner, legit old lady driven 1999 Trans Am WS6. It is bone stock, even still has the annoying skip shift feature.

What would be the one thing you would do right away knowing what you know now? I don't mean "heads and cam" or "free mods" type of things. I mean things like ditching the factory power steering cooler, or addressing the firebird door panel issues, to hopefully avoid it from cracking type of things.

What would you do?

Firebrian

I would leave the car fully stock....with the possible exception of removing PS cooler and stopping the door panel cracks. I still have the skip shift feature in my SS. They can only be factory stock once. I'd bet very few are little old lady owned WS6 M6's

bobby678

i would put a 4cyl in it to save gas

JDEP162

Leave stock, maintain, enjoy.
but pics now or it never happened haha

bigbomber5

What is you guys' reasoning for wanting to keep it stock if you could do it over again?

Firebrian

Save money and time as mods are sink holes...unless you love wrenching more than driving.
Have nearly as much fun driving it vs. a modified vehicle.
Owning one of a very few all stock vehicles left.
There's no question as to what was done to the car (ie nothing).
In the end, it's easier to sell a well-cared for stock vehicle.

JD_AMG

This leave me scratching my head as well, sounds like they haven't done the right mods then. Factory stock leave a lot to be desired when it comes to driving experience, stopping, and handling/feel.
I would rather not own another fbody if I had to leave the stock shocks on, good shocks make the car drive that much better, after having koni sports there is no going back. If I had to leave the stock decarbons on then I might be looking at getting a different car then...
Factory hurst shifter is like rowing a boat, and the factory GM one is way worse. That would be something else Id have to change out. That and either the tick MC or getting a new clutch that isn't self adjusting (locking out high rpm shifts).
Factory exhaust is really quiet, Id have to do at least a catback.
Factory height on most of these cars is really high, mild drop lowering springs really improve the look(and proper ones really improve handling and still ride good).
Factory brake pads are junk, causing the rotors to "warp". Good set of brake pads goes a long way.
Some sound deadening material like fatmat helps quiet a bit with highway wind noises or any kind of drone you would get.

This is not a "have to have" but good aftermarket swaybars (35mm front/22mm rear) make a huge difference in handling with little effect on ride quality.

None of the above would hurt value at all and drastically improve the way the car drives overall, especially the shocks.

Firebrian

Last time a drove a 100% stock 4th gen was a 2000 WS6 M6 back in 2011. It had original tires to boot at 14K miles. That was a very pleasurable experience....amazing actually. I wish I could recreate it on any 4th gen I've owned or will own. I don't even recall having that "row your boat" feeling when shifting either. I drove a 2000 Z28 M6 vert 2 years ago and that car did have a terribly sloppy shifter at 42K miles...felt like driving a bus...or like my neighbor's 2003 Nissan Frontier 5 speed...lol. I owned my 1998 Z28 for 7 years and put 93K miles on it from 22K-115K. I never knew that I was supposed to put "up grades" on that car. It was a blast just as it was. It had a rev limiter programmed in around 115 mph because it was delivered new on T(?) rated tires. I never bothered to change it...even after I switched to higher rated tires.

Some enthusiasts appreciate the cars for what they were at the time. You see plenty of 1960's and 1970's muscle car owners who leave them just the way they came from the factory. If they wanted crisp disc brakes, power steering, AC, power windows....then I'd guess they'd get something from the 1990's or later. If I wanted my 1999 SS to perform like a car from 2009-2017, I'd just go out and buy one of those. Maybe the fact that I've owned ten, mostly stock 1960's big block muscle cars before gives me a better appreciation for what a stock 4th gen can do.

Jay-P

iTrader: (16)

Great points all around. I have mostly 4x4 vehicles so this thing handles, brakes, and rides like a dream as is.

I do think I want to do a few things to it, but am torn. A throatier exhaust, a better shifter, and simple things that I can switch back to stock I guess.

I'll post pics soon... ya host before post yes I know.

RevGTO

iTrader: (12)

As JD AMG pointed out, some mods enhance the car significantly without detracting from stock goodness. A good catback for deeper sound and much better flow; a lid is going to give you a little too with a nice increase in intake roar. Good shocks completely transform the car and are no-brainer. A 99 will see a nice gain in mid-range torque with an LS6 intake.

I'm with Firebrian in that I like the stock Hurst. I haven't cared for the aftermarket short-throw shifters I've sampled on other cars. Too notchy and the increased effort required detracts from pleasurable driving. The base shifter is horrible, however, and should be replaced with a Hurst.

Long tube headers give a significant bump in power, but this is a mod that can have trade-offs like O2 sensor codes, exhaust fitment, and difficulty toning the sound down.

What I'm describing is basically my 02 M6 car with shocks, lid, catback, skip shift tuned out and the timing tables bumped up. Very much like stock but with better handling, sound, and a little more power. If I bring the car out to CA as planned, I'll add Strano sway bars. Not much use for them on the straightaways of Kansas.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

I'm basically doing it. Sold my ls1 and 4l60e and turned my car into a roller, then bought a 5.3, 4l80e, and a huron speed turbo kit. I've done tons of mods over the years, replacing parts sometimes several times, I wish I woulda went straight to weight reduction, forced induction, and race parts.....like heim joint suspension etc. For what I spent going high 10s with heads and cam I coulda probably gone 8s with forced induction. Live and learn.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I wouldn't want to leave one 100% stock, unless it was a three or very low four digit mileage car that was kept in a bubble and only moved in a trailer. Beyond that, I basically agree with RevGTO and JD AMG; there are certain minor modifications that either have no downside at all (subjectively of course) or such a limited downside that the trade off is well worth it. I couldn't see owning one of these without at least a lid/catback combo (unless perhaps it was a 345hp package SS or Firehawk that already came with a dual/dual and Blackwing.) I don't care much for the factory exhaust note of these cars with a base system. I drove my '02 Z28 as a daily driver for a couple years with the stock exhaust before changing it; I was so much happier once that stock, anemic muffler was gone. An air lid is easy, albeit minor, power with no downside to driveability; no reason not to do that IMO. Together (lid + catback), you can pick up 15-20hp and better sound with no ill effects on driveability or even the need for any custom tuning to restore driveability. Of course, this assumes one would prefer a louder exhaust note (hence subjective.)

I'm not a big handling/suspension guy, so that's an area I could easily do without modifying. I have done several suspension mods to my various 4th gens over the years, but none of that has been a "must do" for me - not that there is much downside to the right pieces, just the cost vs. rewards were pretty low in my case since I'm not super picky about handling (a shock upgrade is nice though.)

There are a handful of other minor cosmetic or mechanical things that I tend to do as standard procedure for any 4th gen that I own, but much of that is again subjective so probably not worthwhile to someone who isn't specifically interested in making such changes.

I've also had one 4th gen that I modified heavily, raced for a while and then sold. Sometimes I get the itch to do that again, but that's less important to me now than it was ~15 years ago.

JD_AMG

Ignorance is bliss
Im guessing you have not done any of the above mods then, because Ive never once heard anyone want to downgrade their shocks or brakes to ones that ride/handle worse or stop worse.
I can see people being opinionated about the shifter feel or the exhaust, but there is NO downside to better shocks or better brake pads, none.
Some of the suspension mods could arguably be "stock" as well since the 1LE cars got basically the same goodies as I listed.

I can appreciate things for what they are but there is nothing wrong with replacing things that just downright work very very poorly for what they are supposed to do. Im talking about very simple replacement parts here that make a total night and day difference in the driving experience.

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

The collection value of a vehicle is generally in the frame rail / pinch weld type feature. If the vehicle has a pristine frame/pinch I would generally not modify it at all (and hope to sell for extreme profits). The best car to mod, weld, cut etc... is one with a damage frame, this way you are not "taking away its value by modifying it" instead you are "re-shaping/rebuilding it even better".

JD_AMG

I have very bad news for you, 99% of cars lose their value over time regardless of miles or condition. Your "extreme profits" logic is not realistic since we are talking about 4th gen fbodies or ls cars in general and not Ferrari F40s.

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

The 'extreme profits' is sort of an underpants gnomes theory, Obviously even if the value of an F-body doubles or triples, that still isn't really a lot of actual money. The owners value of a car isn't in the structure or physical materials- the value is also in your mind.


That said, so now let us imagine we are that person. We value the chassis or frame of a given car. Now let us go look at some cars with builds and find they all have smashed chassis- just a coincidence. Lots of great looking builds but every pinch has been jacked up incorrectly. The next day, we find an all original, low miles car with a perfect pinch and frame. The owner of course has the price set low- because its just a plain old stock original car, no build. To us, that car is worth more than all the built cars, because we value the cosmetic frame attributes and it was difficult to find.

So the real question is: Are clean frame (insert your car here) hard to find? For the nissan 240sx community, yes people have been able to flip $4000 low miles 1997 models for $10,000 in all original condition because of the frame, because they are hard to find (production numbers)

But it doesn't matter to the performance minded. For us, it is better to modify a car with a busted frame to start with. Make it better, going up. If you already have a perfect body, almost anything you cut into it is going down (unless it is higher level and continuous)

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

After reading all your responses to multiple threads I have one idea.....I wish I had what youre smoking. It must be goooood ****.

TransAmWS.6

Wish I had put the mods on hold and addressed the bubbling sail panel way ahead of time before it started leaking glue in the sun like it is now, but oh well.

At times, I also miss the car when it was stock. It's a lot of fun now and I wouldn't change it but this car was so very smooth and predictable when it was stock. I think back to those days and at times wish I had just left it alone, but I know I'd get bored with it.

kingtal0n

iTrader: (1)

well yes,

To reiterate the key however: you can change anything on a vehicle, almost, easily. The doors, hood, dash, seats, carpet, engine, subframe, trans, etc.. it all comes apart, unbolts, comes off, comes out, is easy to change.

The frame however, is not. You damage the frame and good luck trying to fix that back like original. That is why I consider it higher priority than the rest of the vehicle.

The second aspect of originalness is the fact that nothing has been screwed with by the previous owner(s). It is much easier to build a car when nothing has been touched or moved, when there is no hidden wiring disasters or half-assed alarm installations, cut harnesses and so forth.

The more hard to find a chassis becomes the more valuable its original state is, with the value in the mind which can be anything.

NC01TA

The very reason I have left mine alone since driving it off the showroom floor in Charlotte many years ago. There is no boredom here however. I have a very good example from GM's Pontiac division that has not been changed at all. I'm sure the ride has deteriorated over the years from 56,000 miles of mostly highway driving but not one thing has been modified on my car. Even the batteries I buy are AC/Delco, and if Goodyear still made 16" tires I would have them as well. At least Goodrich starts with 'Good'. I find it extremely enjoyable to own what 'once was' right from the factory. I don't think many are left out there anymore outside of the collectors that just put them away when purchased.