I'm going with a crate 480/495hp LS376. What computer?
12-09-2018, 10:56 AM
#1
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
I'm going with a crate 480/495hp LS376. What computer? After a lot of research I've decided on this engine:
GM LS3 480
Its the same engine as the LS376/430 and the LS376/525. Only the camshafts are different. In my opinion, the LS376/480 is the best deal of the three.
My question is what computer management system should I use for this engine? Of course I could buy this:
http://LS376/480 Controller
Is this my best bet or should I be looking at aftermarket controllers? Self tuning? I'm a complete newbie to tuning and computers.
It's all going in my 4-cyl 1991 Mustang notch!
GM LS3 480
Its the same engine as the LS376/430 and the LS376/525. Only the camshafts are different. In my opinion, the LS376/480 is the best deal of the three.
My question is what computer management system should I use for this engine? Of course I could buy this:
http://LS376/480 Controller
Is this my best bet or should I be looking at aftermarket controllers? Self tuning? I'm a complete newbie to tuning and computers.
It's all going in my 4-cyl 1991 Mustang notch!
12-09-2018, 11:54 AM
#2
TECH Senior Member
If you are a complete newbie to tuning and such, you might be better off with something cut and dried, like the GM controller you mention.
12-09-2018, 12:10 PM
#3
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
There is no reason not to use the GMPP harness and ECU kit that matches the crate engine that you buy, especially if you don't know anything about tuning. If you wanted something that you could easily tune and do a lot of other things with down the road, then the Holley Dominator is excellent. Having said that, you WILL have to tune it, despite the self tuning claims. The base fuel map will get self-tuned fairly quickly, but all other parameters (there are many) will need to be fiddled with for optimal performance and drivability.
Andrew
Andrew
12-09-2018, 02:05 PM
#4
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
G and Andrew, thank you for your replies. I have absolutely no tuning experience but I'm a complete DIYer and I do all of my own mechanical work. The entire Fox LS swap will be done by me and unfortunately, probably me alone 
.
Can the GM controller be retuned later on if I decide that I want to "upgrade" the LS376/480?
As far as the self tuning systems go; will they self tune to where the engine is running good or are you guys saying that they can only learn a "ballpark" tune. I've only read about them and I thought that they could and would eventually learn and tune quite good. Andrew, what are some of the other parameters that I'd want to tune myself? Things like bumping up the idle rpm for air conditioning?
.Can the GM controller be retuned later on if I decide that I want to "upgrade" the LS376/480?
As far as the self tuning systems go; will they self tune to where the engine is running good or are you guys saying that they can only learn a "ballpark" tune. I've only read about them and I thought that they could and would eventually learn and tune quite good. Andrew, what are some of the other parameters that I'd want to tune myself? Things like bumping up the idle rpm for air conditioning?
12-09-2018, 02:15 PM
#5
Find out what your best local tuner prefers,EFI Live or HP Tuners and buy one of those units if you are going with the GMPP harness. Then you can do minor tweaks on your own, if that is not enough for you then bring it in to them for a full tune on their chassis dyno.
12-09-2018, 02:18 PM
#6
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
G and Andrew, thank you for your replies. I have absolutely no tuning experience but I'm a complete DIYer and I do all of my own mechanical work. The entire Fox LS swap will be done by me and unfortunately, probably me alone .
Can the GM controller be retuned later on if I decide that I want to "upgrade" the LS376/480?
As far as the self tuning systems go; will they self tune to where the engine is running good or are you guys saying that they can only learn a "ballpark" tune. I've only read about them and I thought that they could and would eventually learn and tune quite good. Andrew, what are some of the other parameters that I'd want to tune myself? Things like bumping up the idle rpm for air conditioning?
.Can the GM controller be retuned later on if I decide that I want to "upgrade" the LS376/480?
As far as the self tuning systems go; will they self tune to where the engine is running good or are you guys saying that they can only learn a "ballpark" tune. I've only read about them and I thought that they could and would eventually learn and tune quite good. Andrew, what are some of the other parameters that I'd want to tune myself? Things like bumping up the idle rpm for air conditioning?
Yes, the GM controller can be tuned.
Again, the self-tuning works very well on the Holley. You do however need to have some knowledge as to what target AFR ratios you want it to tune for. There is a user defined target AFR ratio table, and once it is populated the ECU takes feedback from the wideband and zeros in the base fuel table to achieve those target AFRs at various RPM and load points.
The other things that you will have to tune are the idle parameters, spark table, acceleration enrichment, various modifiers to account for changes in air intake and coolant temperatures. The great thing about the Holley is that once you learn the system then you no longer are a slave to a "tuner." Any changes to the engine can be tuned yourself and off you go. It's also quite satisfying to do your own tuning and know you made it run well by yourself.
The Dominator also opens a ton of custom options that may or may not be of interest to you. It can do PWM fan control with or without AC. You can add a crazy amount of inputs and outputs that you can use for whatever you want. I have outputs for alternator control and for the reverse lock out solenoid. There is also tuning for the injector end angle, which is not available on a stock ECU. This allows you to time the injector firing with your cam shaft events to insure optimal fuel use. Of course there is also built in control for nitrous, boost, Water/meth injection, etc....You can also add one of Holley dashes and use it as all of your gauges. This alone can save money over having to buy custom gauges. There is a new 12" dash that looks pretty killer $$$. I use the 7" dash in my Cougar.
Andrew
12-09-2018, 02:30 PM
#7
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Find out what your best local tuner prefers,EFI Live or HP Tuners and buy one of those units if you are going with the GMPP harness. Then you can do minor tweaks on your own, if that is not enough for you then bring it in to them for a full tune on their chassis dyno.
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12-09-2018, 02:35 PM
#8
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
I think a lot of people do their swaps alone, or with the occasional help from a buddy. It is amazing what can be accomplished alone with the help of some tools, engine hoist and a jack.
Yes, the GM controller can be tuned.
Again, the self-tuning works very well on the Holley. You do however need to have some knowledge as to what target AFR ratios you want it to tune for. There is a user defined target AFR ratio table, and once it is populated the ECU takes feedback from the wideband and zeros in the base fuel table to achieve those target AFRs at various RPM and load points.
The other things that you will have to tune are the idle parameters, spark table, acceleration enrichment, various modifiers to account for changes in air intake and coolant temperatures. The great thing about the Holley is that once you learn the system then you no longer are a slave to a "tuner." Any changes to the engine can be tuned yourself and off you go. It's also quite satisfying to do your own tuning and know you made it run well by yourself.
The Dominator also opens a ton of custom options that may or may not be of interest to you. It can do PWM fan control with or without AC. You can add a crazy amount of inputs and outputs that you can use for whatever you want. I have outputs for alternator control and for the reverse lock out solenoid. There is also tuning for the injector end angle, which is not available on a stock ECU. This allows you to time the injector firing with your cam shaft events to insure optimal fuel use. Of course there is also built in control for nitrous, boost, Water/meth injection, etc....You can also add one of Holley dashes and use it as all of your gauges. This alone can save money over having to buy custom gauges. There is a new 12" dash that looks pretty killer $$$. I use the 7" dash in my Cougar.
Andrew
Yes, the GM controller can be tuned.
Again, the self-tuning works very well on the Holley. You do however need to have some knowledge as to what target AFR ratios you want it to tune for. There is a user defined target AFR ratio table, and once it is populated the ECU takes feedback from the wideband and zeros in the base fuel table to achieve those target AFRs at various RPM and load points.
The other things that you will have to tune are the idle parameters, spark table, acceleration enrichment, various modifiers to account for changes in air intake and coolant temperatures. The great thing about the Holley is that once you learn the system then you no longer are a slave to a "tuner." Any changes to the engine can be tuned yourself and off you go. It's also quite satisfying to do your own tuning and know you made it run well by yourself.
The Dominator also opens a ton of custom options that may or may not be of interest to you. It can do PWM fan control with or without AC. You can add a crazy amount of inputs and outputs that you can use for whatever you want. I have outputs for alternator control and for the reverse lock out solenoid. There is also tuning for the injector end angle, which is not available on a stock ECU. This allows you to time the injector firing with your cam shaft events to insure optimal fuel use. Of course there is also built in control for nitrous, boost, Water/meth injection, etc....You can also add one of Holley dashes and use it as all of your gauges. This alone can save money over having to buy custom gauges. There is a new 12" dash that looks pretty killer $$$. I use the 7" dash in my Cougar.
Andrew
! Fantastic information! I really like to be able to do things myself and I hate the thought of being a slave to a tuner. Hmmmm. I'm really going to have to think about this!
12-09-2018, 02:40 PM
#9
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
I was thinking that some aftermarket software would allow one to interface with the GM controller. Maybe this is the best way for me to go. The GMPP controller and harness will have the perfect tune for the engine now and later, if I decide to do some modifications, a tuner (or maybe me?) can do that with the interface software.
The Holley allows you to have a laptop hooked up and as the car is being driven changes can be made and take effect instantly.
I have a GMPP system on my GTO and it works fine...even great. I have a Dominator on my Cougar and I prefer it because of all the custom features that I can implement and make my own changes to the tune as needed. I am not trying to say one is better...these are different systems and have their own plusses and minuses, cost being the biggest difference, as the Dominator is decidedly expensive...
Andrew
12-09-2018, 07:24 PM
#10
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Andrew, I started looking into the Holley computer systems and there are several with the Dominator being the "top of the line" and, of course, the most expensive. It looks like the Dominator is the only one that can handle a drive by wire. That LS376/480 is a drive by wire, isn't it?
12-09-2018, 07:33 PM
#11
TECH Senior Member
ALL Gen IV LS engines are DBW.
12-09-2018, 08:22 PM
#12
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
Andrew, I started looking into the Holley computer systems and there are several with the Dominator being the "top of the line" and, of course, the most expensive. It looks like the Dominator is the only one that can handle a drive by wire. That LS376/480 is a drive by wire, isn't it?
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/terminator_efi/terminator_ls_efi/terminator_ls_mpfi/parts/550-611
Andrew
12-10-2018, 09:59 AM
#13
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Correct, you need the system with the Dominator ECU to handle DBW. I suggest looking at the Terminator kit for the LS3. This kit has DBW.
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel.../parts/550-611
Andrew
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel.../parts/550-611
Andrew
. Painful but I can do it!
12-10-2018, 11:09 AM
#14
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
The GM LS376/480 Controller Kit - 809-19258267, comes with the electronic gas pedal. If I go with the Holley system, where do I buy an electronic gas pedal?
It seems like the more I learn and figure out, the more questions I have
!
It seems like the more I learn and figure out, the more questions I have
!
12-10-2018, 03:07 PM
#15
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=6310377&cc=1440301&jsn=452
Or the C6 Corvette pedal will work:
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=6310383&cc=1441009&jsn=507
So will the CTSV pedal
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...432478&jsn=663
The last one is what is included in the GMPP kit.
Andrew
12-10-2018, 11:22 PM
#16
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Andrew, I went and looked up the CTSV pedal on rockauto.com. That particular pedal is for manual transmission cars but its out of stock. About $75-$80. They've got the pedal for automatic trans cars. I'm just curious as to what the difference would be.
12-10-2018, 11:24 PM
#17
12-11-2018, 11:27 PM
#18
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
I've noticed that the price of these engines has been going up in January the last couple of years. I've got a 2016 Summit printed catalog and a 2017 Jegs printed catalog. The price of these LS376s have gone up, especially the 525. I decided to go ahead and make my purchase today !
!
12-12-2018, 01:32 AM
#19
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The GMPP ECU controller package has everything you need to wire up the engine management system and get it to start/run. The tune supplied is okay, but you will need to have it dyno tuned to get the most of it. On my LS3 525 I picked up ~30hp from the dyno tune.
Be warned quality can be hit or miss. On one build my controller package worked flawlessly out of the box. On another I went through 5 (!) before I got one that worked properly. Problems ranged from DBW pedal not responding (problem with wiring harness, not DBW pedal) to ECU mysteriously turning itself off randomly to injectors not firing.
Given the volume they do I'm sure more-often-than-not the experience with GMPP products is positive, but I've had really lousy luck with their quality control.
Be warned quality can be hit or miss. On one build my controller package worked flawlessly out of the box. On another I went through 5 (!) before I got one that worked properly. Problems ranged from DBW pedal not responding (problem with wiring harness, not DBW pedal) to ECU mysteriously turning itself off randomly to injectors not firing.
Given the volume they do I'm sure more-often-than-not the experience with GMPP products is positive, but I've had really lousy luck with their quality control.
Last edited by efnfast; 12-12-2018 at 02:01 AM.
12-12-2018, 05:43 AM
#20
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I've noticed that the price of these engines has been going up in January the last couple of years. I've got a 2016 Summit printed catalog and a 2017 Jegs printed catalog. The price of these LS376s have gone up, especially the 525. I decided to go ahead and make my purchase today !
!Did you order the Holley EFI too? I think they always have a big end of year sale as well.
Andrew