SONNAX 2.84 CARRIER worth it?
03-20-2019, 10:48 AM
#1
SONNAX 2.84 CARRIER worth it? Fellas. Everyone I talked to said dont waste my money on the sonnax 2.84 carrier. But i'd like to elaborate on why I was considering it. And tell me what you think. I'm not interested in the claim that it'll make my car faster.
1) i think it will help with traction. might make the shock to my stock drivetrain less too.
2) Its stronger than my 4 pinion planet. I cannot find any 5 pinion gm planets for a reasonable cost. I need all the strength i can get.
3) I read that it also changes the overdrive ratio for an rpm drop. I'd like this alot as i do alot of interstate driving
1) i think it will help with traction. might make the shock to my stock drivetrain less too.
2) Its stronger than my 4 pinion planet. I cannot find any 5 pinion gm planets for a reasonable cost. I need all the strength i can get.
3) I read that it also changes the overdrive ratio for an rpm drop. I'd like this alot as i do alot of interstate driving
03-20-2019, 11:31 AM
#2
TECH Junkie
Let me know when you find someone that has broken a 4 pinion planet due to torque. You'll be hard pressed to find anybody.
Planets fail because
A. Lack of Lube
B. Thrust issues that waste a needle bearing...then the bearing that gets chewed up by the gears
C. Something else breaks and then takes out the planet with it. Typically a diff/u joint explodes and then the shock travels up through the trans. This happens even in th400's that take 1000+ hp
I've built some high HP 60's...none of them have hurt a 4 pinion from power.
Overdrive ratio stays the same.
Planets fail because
A. Lack of Lube
B. Thrust issues that waste a needle bearing...then the bearing that gets chewed up by the gears
C. Something else breaks and then takes out the planet with it. Typically a diff/u joint explodes and then the shock travels up through the trans. This happens even in th400's that take 1000+ hp
I've built some high HP 60's...none of them have hurt a 4 pinion from power.
Overdrive ratio stays the same.
The following users liked this post:
Tranzman (03-28-2024)
03-20-2019, 11:36 AM
#3
Let me know when you find someone that has broken a 4 pinion planet due to torque. You'll be hard pressed to find anybody.
Planets fail because
A. Lack of Lube
B. Thrust issues that waste a needle bearing...then the bearing that gets chewed up by the gears
C. Something else breaks and then takes out the planet with it. Typically a diff/u joint explodes and then the shock travels up through the trans. This happens even in th400's that take 1000+ hp
I've built some high HP 60's...none of them have hurt a 4 pinion from power.
Overdrive ratio stays the same.
Planets fail because
A. Lack of Lube
B. Thrust issues that waste a needle bearing...then the bearing that gets chewed up by the gears
C. Something else breaks and then takes out the planet with it. Typically a diff/u joint explodes and then the shock travels up through the trans. This happens even in th400's that take 1000+ hp
I've built some high HP 60's...none of them have hurt a 4 pinion from power.
Overdrive ratio stays the same.
got it. I’ll save my money. Just thinking while it’s apart. Why not. Evidently I got the PATC unit mixed up with the sonnax. I assumed the PATC was a sonnax. I don’t think I’ll ever buy **** from PATC again
03-20-2019, 01:05 PM
#5
TECH Addict
I had thought about trying it but talked myself out of it, I don't have that much disposable money laying around.
This is strait from Sonnax’s site.
“The steepest first gear ratio of any four-speed automatic (3.06) belongs to the GM 4L60 (700-R4)/4L60-E family of transmissions. The shift from 3.06 ratio (1st gear) to 1.63 ratio (2nd gear) is a dramatic RPM drop that causes performance engines to fall out of their power band.
Sonnax 2.84 input carrier kit 77284-K transforms the popular 4L60 series from an OE “wide ratio” 3.06/1.63 to a “close ratio” 2.84/1.55 for game-changing acceleration on the track. This keeps performance engines in the optimal power band while allowing a longer pull in first and second gears, improving consistency and performance.”
If I am understanding this they also changed the ratio of 2nd gear to a higher ratio. So the ratio from 1st to 2nd is not as close as one would think. I assumed it would be 2.84 to 1.63 not 2.84 to 1.55. I have heard some say that it does help with traction, but didn’t help with ET.
This is strait from Sonnax’s site.
“The steepest first gear ratio of any four-speed automatic (3.06) belongs to the GM 4L60 (700-R4)/4L60-E family of transmissions. The shift from 3.06 ratio (1st gear) to 1.63 ratio (2nd gear) is a dramatic RPM drop that causes performance engines to fall out of their power band.
Sonnax 2.84 input carrier kit 77284-K transforms the popular 4L60 series from an OE “wide ratio” 3.06/1.63 to a “close ratio” 2.84/1.55 for game-changing acceleration on the track. This keeps performance engines in the optimal power band while allowing a longer pull in first and second gears, improving consistency and performance.”
If I am understanding this they also changed the ratio of 2nd gear to a higher ratio. So the ratio from 1st to 2nd is not as close as one would think. I assumed it would be 2.84 to 1.63 not 2.84 to 1.55. I have heard some say that it does help with traction, but didn’t help with ET.
Trending Topics
03-20-2019, 05:37 PM
#9
TECH Apprentice
The shift from 3.06 ratio (1st gear) to 1.63 ratio (2nd gear) is a dramatic RPM drop that causes performance engines to fall out of their power band.
Sonnax 2.84 input carrier kit 77284-K transforms the popular 4L60 series from an OE “wide ratio” 3.06/1.63 to a “close ratio” 2.84/1.55 for game-changing acceleration on the track. This keeps performance engines in the optimal power band while allowing a longer pull in first and second gears, improving consistency and performance.”
If I am understanding this they also changed the ratio of 2nd gear to a higher ratio. So the ratio from 1st to 2nd is not as close as one would think. I assumed it would be 2.84 to 1.63 not 2.84 to 1.55. I have heard some say that it does help with traction, but didn’t help with ET.
Sonnax 2.84 input carrier kit 77284-K transforms the popular 4L60 series from an OE “wide ratio” 3.06/1.63 to a “close ratio” 2.84/1.55 for game-changing acceleration on the track. This keeps performance engines in the optimal power band while allowing a longer pull in first and second gears, improving consistency and performance.”
If I am understanding this they also changed the ratio of 2nd gear to a higher ratio. So the ratio from 1st to 2nd is not as close as one would think. I assumed it would be 2.84 to 1.63 not 2.84 to 1.55. I have heard some say that it does help with traction, but didn’t help with ET.
03-21-2019, 07:18 AM
#11
I posted several years ago that you would not really see any difference with this 2.84 gear set. The drop between 1st and 2nd is almost identical in rpm drop off. 2nd to 3rd, less rpm drop off. The right torque converter will do more than any gear set change. So spend the money on the torque converter instead of the gear set. If this gear set would really help, I think people in Super Stock using the 700R4 or 4L60E transmission would have made the change yesterday. I have been waiting for someone to have made a back to back comparison to see what happens, Still waiting....
03-21-2019, 07:41 AM
#12
TECH Junkie
Roughly 1.3% difference on the 1-2
Roughly 3.2% difference on the 2-3
peanuts
pba...how many 4 pinions have you seen explode due to just pure power?
Roughly 3.2% difference on the 2-3
peanuts
pba...how many 4 pinions have you seen explode due to just pure power?
03-21-2019, 11:13 AM
#14
Ok. I’ll leave the four pinion. So currently this is the **** I’m using:
4l79 drum
8 exidy turbo 350 frictions in the 3-4 .035-.040 clearance
red alto in the forward, blue plate in the over run
red alto wide band
sonnax 2nd billet servo
superior 4th billet servo piston
sonnax smart shell
sonnax heavy duty input and output shafts
sonnax wide sun gear bushing
sonnax pump stator bushing
plastic check *****
3-4 feeds drilled to .100
sonnax sealed servo pin, travel under .100
.500 boost valve
4 pinion factory front planet
5 pinion factory rear planet
hd pump spring
kolene forward and over run steels
sonnax pinless accumulator pistons
sonnax input drum reinforcement sleeve
blue tight fit molded pistons in the input drum
sonnax hd 2-3 valve
im sure I’m forgetting some stuff! Any other suggestions? Maybe I should post this in my build thread?
Hey, where is number 6 check ball. I’ve been unable to figure out which one that is. I need more fluid going to my over runs. I keep taxing them for some reason. Maybe something to do with the hd 2-3 valve.
4l79 drum
8 exidy turbo 350 frictions in the 3-4 .035-.040 clearance
red alto in the forward, blue plate in the over run
red alto wide band
sonnax 2nd billet servo
superior 4th billet servo piston
sonnax smart shell
sonnax heavy duty input and output shafts
sonnax wide sun gear bushing
sonnax pump stator bushing
plastic check *****
3-4 feeds drilled to .100
sonnax sealed servo pin, travel under .100
.500 boost valve
4 pinion factory front planet
5 pinion factory rear planet
hd pump spring
kolene forward and over run steels
sonnax pinless accumulator pistons
sonnax input drum reinforcement sleeve
blue tight fit molded pistons in the input drum
sonnax hd 2-3 valve
im sure I’m forgetting some stuff! Any other suggestions? Maybe I should post this in my build thread?
Hey, where is number 6 check ball. I’ve been unable to figure out which one that is. I need more fluid going to my over runs. I keep taxing them for some reason. Maybe something to do with the hd 2-3 valve.
Last edited by Kfxguy; 03-21-2019 at 02:06 PM.
03-21-2019, 01:17 PM
#15
TECH Junkie
Ok. I’ll leave the four pinion. So currently this is the **** I’m using:
4l79 drum
8 exidy turbo 350 frictions in the 3-4 .035-.040 clearance Contrary to what you'll read me comment below...here is one of the ONLY spots I'll run kolene. Its more for clearance/timing than anything else. Standard will be OK too if that's what you have
red alto in the forward, blue plate in the over run
red alto wide band Go with a carbon wide band (not kevlar) I can send you some pictures of red bands that aren't cool lol
sonnax 2nd billet servo
superior 4th billet servo piston
sonnax smart shell
sonnax heavy duty input and output shafts
sonnax wide sun gear bushing
sonnax pump stator bushing
plastic check ***** Make sure you use a steel ball and peen the hole to create a seat for the plastic
3-4 feeds drilled to .100 too small
sonnax sealed servo pin, travel under .100 go .060
.500 boost valve
4 pinion factory front planet
5 pinion factory rear planet
hd pump spring
kolene forward and over run steels I strongly prefer standard steels. Kolene have a lower coefficient of friction and actually slip more on apply...that's the whole reason they were even ever used in the first place. Go with normal steel
sonnax pinless accumulator pistons
sonnax input drum reinforcement sleeve
blue tight fit molded pistons in the input drum
im sure I’m forgetting some stuff! Any other suggestions? Maybe I should post this in my build thread?
Hey, where is number 6 check ball. I’ve been unable to figure out which one that is. I need more fluid going to my over runs. I keep taxing them for some reason. Maybe something to do with the hd 2-3 valve.
4l79 drum
8 exidy turbo 350 frictions in the 3-4 .035-.040 clearance Contrary to what you'll read me comment below...here is one of the ONLY spots I'll run kolene. Its more for clearance/timing than anything else. Standard will be OK too if that's what you have
red alto in the forward, blue plate in the over run
red alto wide band Go with a carbon wide band (not kevlar) I can send you some pictures of red bands that aren't cool lol
sonnax 2nd billet servo
superior 4th billet servo piston
sonnax smart shell
sonnax heavy duty input and output shafts
sonnax wide sun gear bushing
sonnax pump stator bushing
plastic check ***** Make sure you use a steel ball and peen the hole to create a seat for the plastic
3-4 feeds drilled to .100 too small
sonnax sealed servo pin, travel under .100 go .060
.500 boost valve
4 pinion factory front planet
5 pinion factory rear planet
hd pump spring
kolene forward and over run steels I strongly prefer standard steels. Kolene have a lower coefficient of friction and actually slip more on apply...that's the whole reason they were even ever used in the first place. Go with normal steel
sonnax pinless accumulator pistons
sonnax input drum reinforcement sleeve
blue tight fit molded pistons in the input drum
im sure I’m forgetting some stuff! Any other suggestions? Maybe I should post this in my build thread?
Hey, where is number 6 check ball. I’ve been unable to figure out which one that is. I need more fluid going to my over runs. I keep taxing them for some reason. Maybe something to do with the hd 2-3 valve.
suggestions:
block the 3-2 control valve inboard.
block the 3-2 downshift valve inboard
use the sonnax HD 2-3 valve
Drill the 2-3 feed to .140 or .155
drill the band release hole to .106
remove #6 checkball for the overruns
make sure you resurface the rev. input drum or use a new drum.
prep the input sprag races
use the white transgo spring inside the afl spring
don't use any shim in the 1-2 accumulator
Make sure you verify the "full" level of your dipstick
vacuum test all that you can. Leaks kill.
use a 10 vane pump rotor...keep the 13 vane slide
03-21-2019, 02:01 PM
#16
Which check ball is #6?
What if i rough up the kolenes? On a sheet of glass with some 320 grit.
What does blocking the the 3-2 valve do?
Making the 2-4 band have more bleed won’t hurt the apply of it?
I dont like red alto anything. I do like the carbon band much better. I may end up changing it, but the thing that I keep thinking about is I had zero slippage on the drum that i could tell. Band and drum look the same as day one and that was over a year and a half ago they were installed. It does shift a little too hard on the 1-2 which the red alto is very grippy.
I dont shim the accumulators or the 2-4 servo.
Im a little apprehensive about drilling the 2-3 that large. What if it shifts too hard at part throttle? Not doubting you, just asking. You’ve given me good advice so far.
What if i rough up the kolenes? On a sheet of glass with some 320 grit.
What does blocking the the 3-2 valve do?
Making the 2-4 band have more bleed won’t hurt the apply of it?
I dont like red alto anything. I do like the carbon band much better. I may end up changing it, but the thing that I keep thinking about is I had zero slippage on the drum that i could tell. Band and drum look the same as day one and that was over a year and a half ago they were installed. It does shift a little too hard on the 1-2 which the red alto is very grippy.
I dont shim the accumulators or the 2-4 servo.
Im a little apprehensive about drilling the 2-3 that large. What if it shifts too hard at part throttle? Not doubting you, just asking. You’ve given me good advice so far.
03-21-2019, 02:14 PM
#17
TECH Junkie
#6 checkball is next to the "bathtub"
blocking the 3-2 cures a decent size leak in the 3rd gear clutch circut.
the band release hole isn't a bleed...it controls the release timing on a 3-2 downshift
You can rough up the kolene...but then you'll just be down to a partially exposed plain steel and partially nitrided layer. Kolene is just a nitriding process...uses a salt bath, that's why there's the black color.
For the $20 it'll cost...just get plain
What's your 1-2 feed hole size?
blocking the 3-2 cures a decent size leak in the 3rd gear clutch circut.
the band release hole isn't a bleed...it controls the release timing on a 3-2 downshift
You can rough up the kolene...but then you'll just be down to a partially exposed plain steel and partially nitrided layer. Kolene is just a nitriding process...uses a salt bath, that's why there's the black color.
For the $20 it'll cost...just get plain
What's your 1-2 feed hole size?
03-24-2019, 06:40 PM
#18
#6 checkball is next to the "bathtub"
blocking the 3-2 cures a decent size leak in the 3rd gear clutch circut.
the band release hole isn't a bleed...it controls the release timing on a 3-2 downshift
You can rough up the kolene...but then you'll just be down to a partially exposed plain steel and partially nitrided layer. Kolene is just a nitriding process...uses a salt bath, that's why there's the black color.
For the $20 it'll cost...just get plain
What's your 1-2 feed hole size?
blocking the 3-2 cures a decent size leak in the 3rd gear clutch circut.
the band release hole isn't a bleed...it controls the release timing on a 3-2 downshift
You can rough up the kolene...but then you'll just be down to a partially exposed plain steel and partially nitrided layer. Kolene is just a nitriding process...uses a salt bath, that's why there's the black color.
For the $20 it'll cost...just get plain
What's your 1-2 feed hole size?
my 1-2 feed hole is .088 with a chamfer.
Is this #6 checkball according to this pic? I’m putting the trans together right too. I got the input drum done and I’m cleaning everything up. What a pain in the ***.
Btw. Anyone have any idea how much I can sell a new 4l65 output shaft for? It’s a new gym shaft I paid like $159 for. Got 25 miles on it and I went ahead and bought both sonnax shafts. I need to recoup some funds lol. $50-$60 too much to ask for it?
03-24-2019, 06:41 PM
#19
#6 checkball is next to the "bathtub"
blocking the 3-2 cures a decent size leak in the 3rd gear clutch circut.
the band release hole isn't a bleed...it controls the release timing on a 3-2 downshift
You can rough up the kolene...but then you'll just be down to a partially exposed plain steel and partially nitrided layer. Kolene is just a nitriding process...uses a salt bath, that's why there's the black color.
For the $20 it'll cost...just get plain
What's your 1-2 feed hole size?
blocking the 3-2 cures a decent size leak in the 3rd gear clutch circut.
the band release hole isn't a bleed...it controls the release timing on a 3-2 downshift
You can rough up the kolene...but then you'll just be down to a partially exposed plain steel and partially nitrided layer. Kolene is just a nitriding process...uses a salt bath, that's why there's the black color.
For the $20 it'll cost...just get plain
What's your 1-2 feed hole size?
my 1-2 feed hole is .088 with a chamfer.
Is this #6 checkball according to this pic? I’m putting the trans together right too. I got the input drum done and I’m cleaning everything up. What a pain in the ***.
Btw. Anyone have any idea how much I can sell a new 4l65 output shaft for? It’s a new gym shaft I paid like $159 for. Got 25 miles on it and I went ahead and bought both sonnax shafts. I need to recoup some funds lol. $50-$60 too much to ask for it?
03-25-2019, 06:58 AM
#20
TECH Junkie
yes. That pic is correct. Remove number 6
While you have it apart, check #9 (the capsule in the case) for leaks. There are a couple writeups with pictures on how to do this.
While you have it apart, check #9 (the capsule in the case) for leaks. There are a couple writeups with pictures on how to do this.