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A few years back I had a 4L60 built for my modest SBC (475 HP).
It self destructed without so much as having raced it in anger even once (OK, maybe once)
I'm guessing it was some kind of assembly error that eventually caused the transmission to lock up in one forward gear after about 8000 miles. That, and produce a trans pan full of crud.(which I discovered when doing routine service prior to another new engine going in last fall)
FTR: Prior to that, it was the best shifting transmission of this model that I've ever had. Hands down.
I had spec'd a build list picking through the Sonnax catalogue as well as as many new hard parts from GM that I could get (more or less). Added a TransGo 700-2&3 kit to the list too along with a 13 vane billet pump from TCS.
Now, the transmission is on the bench and I'm waiting to hear back from yet another rebuilder as to the condition of all of those good parts and what might be salvageable. It'll get a new unmolested case as a start.
Beyond the hard parts and following the re-programming instructions in the TransGo kit, what else should be considered so this thing will last?
I'm hopeful to see an open road event or standing mile. As such, OD lockup at WOT will be needed. Lockup in 3rd gear too has been suggested. A new converter, as yet unordered is in the works with a triple disc clutch high on the probability list. If no open road racing, it'll be pounded at the drag strip every chance available. Should be an 11 second ride at best. Nothing otherworldly but quick enough for me. It's more drag than drive this time around but it'll be on the highway more than once for sure.
I'm reaching out to a couple of members here as I've had experience with them and their knowledge over at Thirdgen.org.
I'm interested in any and all opinions.
Thanks in advance. @vorteciroc@PBA
A few years back I had a 4L60 built for my modest SBC (475 HP).
It self destructed without so much as having raced it in anger even once (OK, maybe once)
I'm guessing it was some kind of assembly error that eventually caused the transmission to lock up in one forward gear after about 8000 miles. That, and produce a trans pan full of crud.(which I discovered when doing routine service prior to another new engine going in last fall)
FTR: Prior to that, it was the best shifting transmission of this model that I've ever had. Hands down.
I had spec'd a build list picking through the Sonnax catalogue as well as as many new hard parts from GM that I could get (more or less). Added a TransGo 700-2&3 kit to the list too along with a 13 vane billet pump from TCS.
Now, the transmission is on the bench and I'm waiting to hear back from yet another rebuilder as to the condition of all of those good parts and what might be salvageable. It'll get a new unmolested case as a start.
Beyond the hard parts and following the re-programming instructions in the TransGo kit, what else should be considered so this thing will last?
I'm hopeful to see an open road event or standing mile. As such, OD lockup at WOT will be needed. Lockup in 3rd gear too has been suggested. A new converter, as yet unordered is in the works with a triple disc clutch high on the probability list. If no open road racing, it'll be pounded at the drag strip every chance available. Should be an 11 second ride at best. Nothing otherworldly but quick enough for me. It's more drag than drive this time around but it'll be on the highway more than once for sure.
I'm reaching out to a couple of members here as I've had experience with them and their knowledge over at Thirdgen.org.
I'm interested in any and all opinions.
Thanks in advance. @vorteciroc@PBA
Im not either one of them But I am sure they will reply soon. My opinion the build list looks good, The ZPACK not as popular as once was but still ok but need quick apply to avoid heating up due to thin plates so would suggest .110 feed for it with a .93 release 3rd ACCUM.
Personally I would switch to an 8 frictions typical set up or even 9 if you can make a custon backing plate or better yet if you can get the early sonnax smartdrum apply plates and use one of those as both apply and backing , I have that set up in my on car with my thinner customised plates (I know big no no for some) but has worked well for me overt the years with that set up I use 10 frictions . But those were made in a cool way to allow that and pleanty of room to clear the hump they have for re-enforcement.
If you didnt keep add back the load release springs yes I even use them with the Transgo 3-4 springs.
Use a TH400 int servo return spring in place of the stock 4l60e its a bit stiffer and helps woth release particular with the 2-1 and servos using D-RINGS as they tend to drag in the bore letting band stay partially applied.
I prefer the Raybestos pro series band and new drum in particular if using wide but good idea no matter which, I am kinda put off on the alto red as i have purchased to lately that had literally delaminated in the box as I gave them a bend and the lining just came right off . I think a couple others posted when I mention it in a previous post they ran into that recently.
The Transgo Thottle valve if its the one that uses that really stiff little return spring get a sonnax TV main spring the purple one and also make a block or solid ringed spring to make sure at WOT the tv valve is deressed fully and pinned at WOT.
The oringed boost valve good or you might even consider changing to a 4l60e pump I can give you instructions on that. Advanatges better presure control more linear , Presure control in manaul 1-2 , Ability to use deep 4L60E pan and stock deep filter. Also eliminates the INT/REV valve. Pipe to the fwd acum and yes still have acumulation just takes a few minor case mods and elimnation of the check ball in fwd accum.
The triple disc converter is a waste of money unless you plan a toggle switch or something to turn the converter on at WOT .
Just a few unsolicited thoughts Of mine others may have more or different ways of doing things . The road to sucess can have many avenues.
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Last edited by FranksCustomTrans; 01-21-2024 at 12:13 PM.
Im not either one of them But I am sure they will reply soon. My opinion the build list looks good, The ZPACK not as popular as once was but still ok but need quick apply to avoid heating up due to thin plates so would suggest .110 feed for it with a .93 release 3rd ACCUM.
Personally I would switch to an 8 frictions typical set up or even 9 if you can make a custon backing plate or better yet if you can get the early sonnax smartdrum apply plates and use one of those as both apply and backing , I have that set up in my on car with my thinner customised plates (I know big no no for some) but has worked well for me overt the years with that set up I use 10 frictions . But those were made in a cool way to allow that and pleanty of room to clear the hump they have for re-enforcement.
If you didnt keep add back the load release springs yes I even use them with the Transgo 3-4 springs.
Use a TH400 int servo return spring in place of the stock 4l60e its a bit stiffer and helps woth release particular with the 2-1 and servos using D-RINGS as they tend to drag in the bore letting band stay partially applied.
I prefer the Raybestos pro series band and new drum in particular if using wide but good idea no matter which, I am kinda put off on the alto red as i have purchased to lately that had literally delaminated in the box as I gave them a bend and the lining just came right off . I think a couple others posted when I mention it in a previous post they ran into that recently.
The Transgo Thottle valve if its the one that uses that really stiff little return spring get a sonnax TV main spring the purple one and also make a block or solid ringed spring to make sure at WOT the tv valve is deressed fully and pinned at WOT.
The oringed boost valve good or you might even consider changing to a 4l60e pump I can give you instructions on that. Advanatges better presure control more linear , Presure control in manaul 1-2 , Ability to use deep 4L60E pan and stock deep filter. Also eliminates the INT/REV valve. Pipe to the fwd acum and yes still have acumulation just takes a few minor case mods and elimnation of the check ball in fwd accum.
The triple disc converter is a waste of money unless you plan a toggle switch or something to turn the converter on at WOT .
Just a few unsolicited thoughts Of mine others may have more or different ways of doing things . The road to sucess can have many avenues.
Hey Frank.
I believe vorteciroc has mentioned you and your latest endeavour and speaks highly.
While the Z-pack is on that list, I can't say with any certainty what the previous builder installed. I knew nothing of his skill sets with respect to high performance builds. That may explain the self destruction. To further complicate things, he assembled the whole works into a Vette case. As such there's no provision for a case mounted transmission mount as the Vette mount is on the extension housing. The new trans will go back to a proper case.
I'll have a discussion with my new guy and see where that goes. I'll tack your list of suggestions to the build sheet. My plan is to give him all the information he might need, if he doesn't already have it, (without insulting his sensibilities) and see where that takes me.
Thanks for the reply. It's appreciated.
If the distance and international shipping wasn't such as PITA, I'd consider a fellow such as yourself to build something and ship it. As it is, I'm kind of pigeon holed into shopping local.
Hey Frank.
I believe vorteciroc has mentioned you and your latest endeavour and speaks highly.
While the Z-pack is on that list, I can't say with any certainty what the previous builder installed. I knew nothing of his skill sets with respect to high performance builds. That may explain the self destruction. To further complicate things, he assembled the whole works into a Vette case. As such there's no provision for a case mounted transmission mount as the Vette mount is on the extension housing. The new trans will go back to a proper case.
I'll have a discussion with my new guy and see where that goes. I'll tack your list of suggestions to the build sheet. My plan is to give him all the information he might need, if he doesn't already have it, (without insulting his sensibilities) and see where that takes me.
Thanks for the reply. It's appreciated.
If the distance and international shipping wasn't such as PITA, I'd consider a fellow such as yourself to build something and ship it. As it is, I'm kind of pigeon holed into shopping local.
Dont throw away that VEt CASE They bring pretty good money on ebay 300 to 400 dollars plus shipping from what I see, .
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Do you still have Good 4-Pinion Planets...
Or where they damaged as a result of the last Failure?
I'd like to start out with what has been Damaged in the last Failure...
And what were the Modifications made to the Transmission thus far?
Originally Posted by skinny z
Good question.
It was all originally built into a case from a 91 Caprice. Went through several iterations until the torque converter eventually failed (2016). That trans was shelves (still have it too)
Then another was built and mistakenly used a case from a 91 Vette. There's no rear transmission mount on the case of that model. It's on the extension housing. This is the transmission that recently ate itself up (5000 miles) and is currently on the bench. Full of Sonnax and GM parts too.
My latest builder has politely requested that he not reuse that case as he doesn't know what kinds of modifications it my have seen.
So now, that question is unanswerable.
I'll take these inquiries off of the table for now. This thread isn't mine and my interests don't necessarily follow those of the OP.
But thanks as always @v8hunter . Your knowledge and the sharing of it is truly appreciated.
I'll be checking out LS tech. My user name is 67LSX454. See you there.
No back to your regularly scheduled thread.
Since you will not be using the last Transmission Case...
I would try to get your hands on a 1988 - 1993 Case.
If you do not have a Good Set of Planetary Gears anymore...
It may be more Cost Effective to obtain another Transmission Core instead of another Case.
The 5-Pinion Planetary Gears are NOT an UpGrade...
Do NOT spend your money on them!!!
Do you still have Good 4-Pinion Planets...
Or where they damaged as a result of the last Failure?
I'd like to start out with what has been Damaged in the last Failure...
And what were the Modifications made to the Transmission thus far?
Since you will not be using the last Transmission Case...
I would try to get your hands on a 1988 - 1993 Case.
If you do not have a Good Set of Planetary Gears anymore...
It may be more Cost Effective to obtain another Transmission Core instead of another Case.
The 5-Pinion Planetary Gears are NOT an UpGrade...
Do NOT spend your money on them!!!
I've two "were working" transmissions.
The first has little internal modification. Your typical boost valves, B4C. Corvette servo. A few other bits. TransGo kit and better frictions and steels. Original 4-pinion planetaries. It served duty in my Camaro for many years. Worked well but was unspectacular. (The 2-3 shift was slow at the track).
It was in service when the torque converter let go. I took it apart for an examination but ultimately traced the problem back to the converter. It's from a '91 Caprice in an MD8 case. It's been languishing in pieces, in unheated storage since 2016. High mileage unit.
The 2nd is the one that was built for me with the parts on the attached list copied below. Full of Sonnax and new GM parts including 5-pinion planetaries. It was mistakenly installed in a Corvette case ('91). That was the first sign of trouble as there's no rear mount in the conventional location.
That transmission ate itself up in 5000 miles or so. No racing. Just kind of cruising with 1) a wounded engine and 2) a makeshift rear transmission mount due to the Corvette case. The pan full of debris wasn't discovered until changing the fluid last fall so as to go behind the new engine. It lasted all of 50 miles after that resulting in one forward gear no matter the shifter position. Note: There was never any hint of trouble in that 5000 mile stint and it was probably the best performing transmission I'd ever had. Lightning shifts, 1-2, 2-3. Cruised flawlessly in O.D with the lockup. Excellent in all respects.
That's the history.
Today, that Vette cased transmission is on a builder's bench waiting for disassembly. It's yet to be determined what's salvageable. All of the frictions and steels are going to be toast for sure. But the hard parts like the Sonnax smart shell, pistons, servos, valves, etc. (see list) I hope can be saved. I've heard the stories about 5-pinion planets. These are bona-fide new GM parts. Not sure what to make of it.
My builder wants to start with a fresh core. Sensible decision I'd say. I'd also end up with the proper case to fit into the 3rd gen Camaro.
I'm waiting to hear from him.
A few years back I had a 4L60 built for my modest SBC (475 HP).
It self destructed without so much as having raced it in anger even once (OK, maybe once)
I'm guessing it was some kind of assembly error that eventually caused the transmission to lock up in one forward gear after about 8000 miles. That, and produce a trans pan full of crud.(which I discovered when doing routine service prior to another new engine going in last fall)
FTR: Prior to that, it was the best shifting transmission of this model that I've ever had. Hands down.
I had spec'd a build list picking through the Sonnax catalogue as well as as many new hard parts from GM that I could get (more or less). Added a TransGo 700-2&3 kit to the list too along with a 13 vane billet pump from TCS.
Now, the transmission is on the bench and I'm waiting to hear back from yet another rebuilder as to the condition of all of those good parts and what might be salvageable. It'll get a new unmolested case as a start.
Beyond the hard parts and following the re-programming instructions in the TransGo kit, what else should be considered so this thing will last?
I'm hopeful to see an open road event or standing mile. As such, OD lockup at WOT will be needed. Lockup in 3rd gear too has been suggested. A new converter, as yet unordered is in the works with a triple disc clutch high on the probability list. If no open road racing, it'll be pounded at the drag strip every chance available. Should be an 11 second ride at best. Nothing otherworldly but quick enough for me. It's more drag than drive this time around but it'll be on the highway more than once for sure.
I'm reaching out to a couple of members here as I've had experience with them and their knowledge over at Thirdgen.org.
I'm interested in any and all opinions.
Thanks in advance. @vorteciroc@PBA
If you need to purchase new Planetary Gear Sets, I would prefer that you Purchase some Rebuilt Planetary Gear Sets, or Used but with-in Spec. 4-Pinion Planetary Gear Sets.
(Instead of New 5-Pinion Planetary Gear Sets).
If you are going to Purchase a New Reaction-shaft, I would prefer that you purchase the Sonnax Version of the Component.
(The Different GM Versions are prone to fail at the Splines in Early Production, and fail at the Mating-Teeth for the Ring-Gear to attach, in the Late Production).
Instead of the Sonnax Input-Drum "Reinforcement-Collar"...
I would prefer that the Input-Shaft be Re-Installed with Loctite Green Bearing-Race Retaining-Compound.
It is highly critical that the Hydraulic-Circuits of the Input-Drum and Input-Shaft are Properly and Completely SEALED where the Shaft Splines into the Drum.
This Area is Notorious for LEAKS!
It is ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL that the Input-Drum be Supported in a specific manor (Use the Sonnax Instructions for the Support-Collar as an Example of how to support the Drum properly)...
For both the Removal, and Re-Installation of the Input-Shaft.
All 3 Molded/ Bonded Apply-Pistons for the Input-Drum can be used (3-4 Clutch, Forward Clutch, Overrun Clutch).
To be Continued...
Last edited by vorteciroc; 01-24-2024 at 06:15 PM.
I can see that some of this may be a tough sell to the guy in line to do my transmission work. At least that's my initial thought.
We'll see.
Keep the information coming.
I'm going to put it into a bullet point format and make a document of it for him to examine.
Something kind of new has come light and that's the converter spec.
Talking with FTI and Circle D, I've placed an emphasis on quarter mile performance. As such they've both offered up their "hard hitting" models.
At about an optimistic 500 lbs-ft TQ at 4000, is this transmission capable of taking that "hit" without further upgrades?
I can see that some of this may be a tough sell to the guy in line to do my transmission work. At least that's my initial thought.
We'll see.
Keep the information coming.
I'm going to put it into a bullet point format and make a document of it for him to examine.
Something kind of new has come light and that's the converter spec.
Talking with FTI and Circle D, I've placed an emphasis on quarter mile performance. As such they've both offered up their "hard hitting" models.
At about an optimistic 500 lbs-ft TQ at 4000, is this transmission capable of taking that "hit" without further upgrades?
It should IMO I would consider doing overun mod (Keeps OVERUN clutch on in OD position gears 1-2-3) , I can show you mine or also I think MarroonMonster has a plate that offers it and several other mods you may like .
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
The Sonnax Extra-Wide Sun Gear Bushing is rather fussy about fitment (I stopped using them a long time ago).
Instead use Two OEM Size Bushings together (preferably Dura-Bond Black PTFE Coated Bushings),
And they will actually be "Wider" than the Sonnax Extra-Wide Sun Gear Bushing.
I like the Sonnax PTFE Bushing for the Rear of the Stator-Support Tube.
The Bushing for the Front of the Stator-Support Tube is very critical as it actually acts as a Seal for Hydraulic-Circuits that run Inside and Outside of the Input-Shaft and Stator-Support Tube with the Torque-Converter.
Use a THM350C (that is a Lock-Up THM350, not just any THM350) Bushing from the Front of the Stator-Support Tube (again, preferably a Dura-Bond Black PTFE Bushing).
The Pump (Torque-Converter Hub) Bushing can be either the GM PTFE Bushing of the Dura-Bond Version.
The Sonnax Boost Valves are not needed, as the TransGo 700 2&3 Set already includes those Components.
Instead of Sonnax, Use the TransGo Single Slide Spring (700 PKH) that includes the Hardened Pump-Rings.
For the 2-4 Band, I would now recommend the Raybestos Extra-Wide Pro-Series Band (it is actually a High Carbon, Graphite Band with some Kevlar, and NOT a purely Kevlar Band, as the Description might imply).
Two Decades ago, Kevlar Bands were made available... and I did NOT like them.
I was using a mixture of 2 Different Bands for years, but neither is as it was.
These were the Alto "Carbonite' Bands... Their quality has dropped to a point where I can no longer trust the Products.
The TransGo 700 2&3 Set has a Great TV Valve-Train line-up.
You do not need anything else related from Sonnax, unless you want the RPO "B4C" Behavior for the 3-4 Up-Shift.
If that is what you would like, then you just need the TV Plunger and Sleeve Set (77966-94MK).
Use the Springs that come in the TransGo 7-CS Set, but do NOT use the Exhaust Check-Ball Capsule that is included...
Instead use the Version from "Superior Transmission Products" (K070).
Use a Slide for a 13-Vane Pump, but not the Rotor.
The 13-Vane Slide allows for more Fluid Flow than the Earlier Slides...
This is because the 13-Vane Pump Flows less and needs compensation.
Use a 10-Vane Rotor and Vanes.
Billet is not needed except for extremely high Line-Pressure...
Or more importantly, an Idiot is installing the Torque-Converter and Transmission, and will NOT be careful and precise enough to Space the Torque-Converter Pull-Out Properly.
I would stay away from the Z-Pack for any "High-Performance" use.
They tend to Over-Heat and Fail easily.
The Friction Material used is actually good...
And it is also used for the Raybestos GPZ Frictions.
Use Them or the OEM Borg-Warner High-Energy Frictions in an 8-Stack with the Thickest Kolene Steels that you can get to fit with a 0.020" - 0.030" Dry Clearance.
Last edited by vorteciroc; 01-23-2024 at 09:13 PM.
The Sonnax Extra-Wide Sun Gear Bushing is rather fussy about fitment (I stopped using them a long time ago).
Instead use Two OEM Size Bushings together (preferably Dura-Bond Black PTFE Coated Bushings),
And they will actually be "Wider" than the Sonnax Extra-Wide Sun Gear Bushing.
I like the Sonnax PTFE Bushing for the Rear of the Stator-Support Tube.
The Bushing for the Front of the Stator-Support Tube is very critical as it actually acts as a Seal for Hydraulic-Circuits that run Inside and Outside of the Input-Shaft and Stator-Support Tube with the Torque-Converter.
Use a THM350C (that is a Lock-Up THM350, not just any THM350) Bushing from the Front of the Stator-Support Tube (again, preferably a Dura-Bond Black PTFE Bushing).
The Pump (Torque-Converter Hub) Bushing can be either the GM PTFE Bushing of the Dura-Bond Version.
The Sonnax Boost Valves are not needed, as the TransGo 700 2&3 Set already includes those Components.
Instead of Sonnax, Use the TransGo Single Slide Spring (700 PKH) that includes the Hardened Pump-Rings.
For the 2-4 Band, I would now recommend the Raybestos Extra-Wide Pro-Series Band (it is actually a High Carbon, Graphite Band with some Kevlar, and NOT a purely Kevlar Band, as the Description might imply).
Two Decades ago, Kevlar Bands were made available... and I did NOT like them.
I was using a mixture of 2 Different Bands for years, but neither is as it was.
These were the Alto "Carbonite' Bands... Their quality has dropped to a point where I can no longer trust the Products.
The TransGo 700 2&3 Set has a Great TV Valve-Train line-up.
You do not need anything else related from Sonnax, unless you want the RPO "B4C" Behavior for the 3-4 Up-Shift.
If that is what you would like, then you just need the TV Plunger and Sleeve Set (77966-94MK).
Use the Springs that come in the TransGo 7-CS Set, but do NOT use the Exhaust Check-Ball Capsule that is included...
Instead use the Version from "Superior Transmission Products" (K070).
Use a Slide for a 13-Vane Pump, but not the Rotor.
The 13-Vane Slide allows for more Fluid Flow than the Earlier Slides...
This is because the 13-Vane Pump Flows less and needs compensation.
Use a 10-Vane Rotor and Vanes.
Billet is not needed except for extremely high Line-Pressure...
Or more importantly, an Idiot is installing the Torque-Converter and Transmission, and will NOT be careful and precise enough to Space the Torque-Converter Pull-Out Properly.
I would stay away from the Z-Pack for any "High-Performance" use.
They tend to Over-Heat and Fail easily.
The Friction Material used is actually good...
And it is also used for the Raybestos GPZ Frictions.
Use Them or the OEM Borg-Warner High-Energy Frictions in an 8-Stack with the Thickest Kolene Steels that you can get to fit with a 0.020" - 0.030" Dry Clearance.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the previous builder, whose transmission assembly resulted in self destruction, didn't know what he was doing regarding the modifications needed to keep this model of transmission alive.
Something as simple as the 13 vane rotor (which I inquired about extensively regarding it's use and compatibility) might have been the pin in the grenade so to speak.
I'll take some responsibility as I used the best of the information I had to create that build sheet. It wasn't questioned.
And I'm not so sure the new guy has the capabilities either. I've little recourse at this point other than to sit down and enlighten him with the plethora of information presented by the contributors of this thread. And that's going to be touchy I'm sure. Certainly for me anyway.
There's a thriving racing community in this region. We've an NHRA dragstrip (20 minutes from my doorstep), a NASCAR sanctioned oval (also 20 minutes away), a Tractor pull arena (20 minutes...) and yet I've found nobody that has a reputation for rebuilding a performance orientated 4L60. Then again I'm painfully outside the racing community I was closely associated with when I lived on the other side of this country. This might get painful. Actually, it already is.
Anyway. Keep it coming (if there can possibly be more!).
And thanks to all once again.
The saga continues...
Two things that quickly Popped into my Not so well functioning mind that I forgot to post (before things continue further)...
-The TransGo 700 Plate and the 700 2&3 Set come with Plugs for Check-Ball Holes...
Plugging the Check-Ball Hole marked: "H' on my Diagram below, does the same thing as the Sonnax B4C style TV Sleeve and Plunger.
Separator-Plate shown below:
-Second, instead of just replacing the 3rd Accumulator Check-Ball Capsule (as should be done if leaking of has many miles)...
Install the Design from Superior Transmission Products (K0136) and NEVER have to replace it again!
Also, I do not know if you are using a Sonnax or a GM Extra-Long 2-3 Servo Apply-Pin...
If using the Sonnax Pin, do NOT use the included Teflon-Seals.
These Seals are not "Scarf-Cut" (and they really should be) and instead they "Butt Together".
This is a poor design...
It is the Original Design for the GM Pin in the very Early Model-Year THM700-R4 Transmissions.
It was so bad at LEAKING that GM Re-Designed the Pin to Eliminate the Seals all together.
The 2 Images Below show the Sonnax Pin, and the included Sonnax Seals and some Red Solid Teflon Seals to use instead:
The Red Solid Teflon Seals are Governor-Shaft Seals from the THM200-4R Transmission.
HyperLink to Seals below: HyperLink
I often get asked how to install these seals since there is NO OEM Tool for doing so...
Here is a Post that I made from another Thread:
Originally Posted by vorteciroc
For DIY Guys:
Solid Teflon Rings:
-Soak in HOT Water for a few Minutes.
-Use New Clean Plastic Funnels (near the size of the Object that the Rings fit) to gently stretch the Sealing-Ring.
-Use New Clean Electrical-Tape (while the Seal is Wet) and lightly wrap the Seal slowly tighter until fully in the Groove.
-Leave for a few minutes... then Remove, and all done.
Purchase these Seals separately from Aftermarket Transmission Parts Distributors.
Hyperlink below is a Retailer for anyone to Buy from: Seals
In this particular situation, the Tip of the Apply-Pin can also be used to Stretch the Solid Teflon-Ring...
In order to get it large enough to get to the Ring-Land, before Shrinking/ Compressing it back down to proper Size.
There's a lot here to digest.
First and foremost I have to wait for the transmission's guts to get spread out on the bench. I'll be making a push inquiry over the weekend I think and get that ball rolling (if it isn't already).
Then I can determine what exactly it is I've got, what failed and possibly how.
That TransGo 700 plate was on the build sheet and how it's been worked over will tell a tale I'm sure. Thanks for that detailed picture @vorteciroc .
Then the discussion with the builder covers the bullet points in this thread. If he's not enthusiastic about the build direction, I've got a contingency plan.
I've an iron in the fire with GearStar.
I've also reached out (via a third party) to a local car builder, who, judging by the machines in his resume, is sure to know a local high performance transmission person. Or maybe not.
Then there's also tempering my expectations, taking the best that I can get from the guy lined up now and take him to task with a guarantee of performance he's obliged to provide. At least with that route, I have some recourse if the whole deal go sideways. Again.
Two things that quickly Popped into my Not so well functioning mind that I forgot to post (before things continue further)...
-The TransGo 700 Plate and the 700 2&3 Set come with Plugs for Check-Ball Holes...
Plugging the Check-Ball Hole marked: "H' on my Diagram below, does the same thing as the Sonnax B4C style TV Sleeve and Plunger.
Separator-Plate shown below:
-Second, instead of just replacing the 3rd Accumulator Check-Ball Capsule (as should be done if leaking of has many miles)...
Install the Design from Superior Transmission Products (K0136) and NEVER have to replace it again!
Also, I do not know if you are using a Sonnax or a GM Extra-Long 2-3 Servo Apply-Pin...
If using the Sonnax Pin, do NOT use the included Teflon-Seals.
These Seals are not "Scarf-Cut" (and they really should be) and instead they "Butt Together".
This is a poor design...
It is the Original Design for the GM Pin in the very Early Model-Year THM700-R4 Transmissions.
It was so bad at LEAKING that GM Re-Designed the Pin to Eliminate the Seals all together.
The 2 Images Below show the Sonnax Pin, and the included Sonnax Seals and some Red Solid Teflon Seals to use instead:
The Red Solid Teflon Seals are Governor-Shaft Seals from the THM200-4R Transmission.
HyperLink to Seals below: HyperLink
I often get asked how to install these seals since there is NO OEM Tool for doing so...
Here is a Post that I made from another Thread:
In this particular situation, the Tip of the Apply-Pin can also be used to Stretch the Solid Teflon-Ring...
In order to get it large enough to get to the Ring-Land, before Shrinking/ Compressing it back down to proper Size.
Interesting on the seals I will need to look into those , I dont care for the ones sonnax send either and was looking to find some solids to size in that spot. That area is the source of a considerable leak in many cases I have noted more and more so. Considered orings but think they might roll over and over and destroy themselves in time or what would be cool here is tiny DRINGS also considering getting the reamer tool to use sonnax oversize apply pin .
Blocking the hole at PT/D3 BATH, I used to do this to allow WOT overdive but wont it eliminate PT kickdown from 4th unless pushed far enough for 3-2 detent kick down ?
__________________ Frank formerly of Performabuilt, Now just me, What can I build for you today? Call or message me. Click sig pic for my facebook
Quick question regarding WOT and overdrive.
Is the issue with this (and the modifications needed beyond the B4C upgrade) having to do with the converter locked or is it just being in overdrive in general?
I've always had a manual switch in the TCC circuit and can keep it toggled open when I don't want the converter locked.
There's a few issues
First, it can be tough on the band.
With a good flat drum, a nice wide band, and a sonnax 4th super servo. Combines with a big feed hole and no accumulator...I've had good success.
Locking the converter at the same time you shift to 4th is problematic. Lots going on there for fluid demand. Also fairly hard on shafts/splines/etc
Do you forsee yourself needing to really shift into 4th gear WOT? With most gear and tire combos that's ALOT of mph
01-21-2024, 10:12 AM
4L60 Build Sheet: Thoughts? 
