Excellent Forum! Let's get right into it!

1. How do You hold the Center Support in a lathe? (for 9436851 TH350 pump/TH400 Output bearing install)
Dont want to scuff the Sprag race, is that Really how its done?

"You’ll also want to machine a bearing pocket directly below the snap ring boss in the front face of the center support,
and fit it with the late model TH350 rear pump thrust bearing and selective shim.
To fit the thrust bearing to the center support, machine it to 0.375” (9.5mm), measured from the front face of the boss,
and to an inside diameter of 2.125” (54.0mm) and an outside diameter of 2.875” (73.0mm)"

Any last words? This seems the most iffy!

2. What do the bolts do?, and what does it look like in 2 pieces? (Center Support)

3. When you blow air in the rear hole - theres often trapped fluid... Does this pertain to Question 2? (Center Support)

4. When rollerizing the reaction carrier, (5 Pinion) if you "machine a pocket to a depth of 0.075”, how far off center is the bearing from the sun gear?
Assuming 99+ internals. How far would you machine BOTH planets to get the bearing Dead Nuts? I hear its off to one side more than necessary.

5. Front of the Fwd Hub, and rear of the Intermediate are the ONLY surfaces Not rollerized, right?
232 Front Fwd Hub Thrust Washer - sees thrust/force in... PRN?
226 Center Support to Planet Thrust Washer - sees force in R? Only? When Planets are thrusted Fwd due to Helical gears?

6. When using the Silencer ring, it Jams between the two rear planetaries..? It seems really tight in there.. Does it Wear to fit? Do I need to sand or smooth it to fit better?
I have heard, to get the "OEM" used rings, but that sounds like it would fall apart faster than the new chinese units (which seem to sell, and have little if any negative press)
Any words on making this thing work?

7. How/what does the stock ECU use the two (2) different speed sensors to compute logic?
Why not 1? Why not read the T case? There must be some algorithm in there computing some sort of slip ratio according to line pressure?
Very interested in this (~20 years EFI Tuning background)

8. Does stock ECU have EPC control in Reverse?
Holley Terminator Max does not.. I've found their software to be lacking, in general, and their "support" to be one of the worst.
(Their geriatric braindead customers love to bend over and say nothing)
It might? be able to be adjusted in the Advanced ICF, but they keep nerfing available channels to promote their even more expensive Dominator line.

9. Why do almost every rear planet set have 1 tooth haphazardly cut out of the parking lugs? Was this an attempt to balance the unit?

10. Any of you running self-lightened/drilled Fwd/Dir. Drums? I'd love to see some of your custom creations!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Next 10 Once these are Done!
Thanks for your input!

 

I'm sorry but I can't be of much help, most of my experience is with the 4L60e. This sounds like a great build and hopefully some of the 4L80 builders will jump in with some suggestions. It sounds like you are on the right track thought. Good luck and hope it turns out as you would like.

 

Thanks, Mr Bond! This is ALL for fun..

I have (some) answers,
1-2-3. All Related
1. Yes you hold by the roller clutch* race ("everyone does"), oof!, unless you want to take it apart? See Below.
EDIT: You can hold the INSIDE section of the roller clutch area (non-critical), but you only get about 0.250 of purchase. I got a 6 jaw to get a solid grip on it..



2. The bolts hold the race on... - still, no pics of separated support, or parts offered for sale separately! Anyone have pics?
3. Pertains to ^^^ Likely a seam between the parts.. Not fond of the idea that there is solvent trapped inside.. Might disassemble for curiosity, but nobody else does?

4.~~ Send the full cut into the reaction carrier - Everyone ~~ Question still stands - for technicality.. Cline? brought it up long time ago somewhere else... blame him.


7.~~ Holley Terminator Max reads the ISS, but uses it for NOTHING in their preschool TCU logic.... Theyre too stupid to incorporate it, or otherwise want you to buy some more of their chinese markup junk.. Check out NYSE: HLLY.. Private Equity, baby!
Run it into the ground, and burn that Holley name you earned making Carbs!

They have you plug it in - so you feel accomplished buying their junk. Jordon Musser is the lead of their EFI department.. he is a Roach. Matt Stevenson CEO is a trust fund baby who was put into position due to his parents wealth leveraging other boomer-centric markets, like Yum food brands and Scotts Turf builder. I've spoke with them - both, and theyre both terrible and stupid people who know almost nothing about cars.
Big Surprise.
Name and Shame for the Google Search -
/tangent

Id like to know what calculations are/can be derived from the ISS in the stock TCU,
and possibly incorporate them into some ad-hoc bullshit in the advanced ICF.
4-10 still unknown!

Not getting the clearance I want with off-the-shelf Std Clutch kits in the fwd, (~085-90"!!)
Raybestos "Stage 1" 77 Fwd steels 90 Dir Steels 80 clutches
Blue Bonded pistons short?
Chinese Repro Deep Dish Drum? Laser etched TYXXXXX on the bottom.. doesnt look GM...



Either way, a set of Coan 0.750 No Check ball pistons are in order.. I refuse to hack-n-stack musical chairs.
I have a lathe, mill, welder, all that. Let's do it right

My fwd drum has the inner seal pounded on, so time for a new Fwd drum - to preserve the *blue* bonded piston kit.
Seems a bit retarded that nobody makes an aluminum Overrun piston.... I will have to get that made.. (any takers?) Then we dont need to buy those bonded piston kits for anything.
I bet *they* dont, because they cant make seals affordably or in palatable quantities. - USA has a really hard time with gaskets and elastomers, despite numerous companies existing.
https://www.precisionassoc.com/ is one of my favorites for custom/new work, and their team is very helpful customer support wise.
A Dude in thailand for custom MLS gaskets, havent been able to find anyone stateside who can do it.. https://gasketstogo.com/gaskets-1

In case anyone wants to make something....

11. Who sells the re-sleeved FWD drums? I need to buy one.
And it must have a 4T65E bushing in it!! (Durabond make a 4T65E or lengthend fwd bushing?)

12. Has anyone messaged Durabond and told them HOW to update their kit?
IE Fluting the OD bushing, lengthening the FWD bushing to 4T65E spec+.. Are they ABLE to make a Rear case bushing the same dimms as the No-Walk?

13. Sun Gear Shaft - why do the splines stop short?

14. Sun Gear Mods - How do you sleep at night with those ugly cut-off wheel gashes in the side? Let's see some machined examples!

15. Porting the Case oil passage, and Oil pump? Lets see some pics of the Skunkworks.




16. OD basket looks like crap -and bangs into the case.
Holding it off-center with a bolt, then off-axis with a dowel on the pressure plate.. seems kinda stupid.
Spent 3-4 hours polishing it... Found the Overrun Drum outer splines banging into the OD piston interior..



I see why people prefer the TH400. There HAS to be a better way to handle this...




17. What bearing is used to roller the front of the Fwd hub? 10 Needle bearings sounds nicer than 9..
Then there is only the Reaction-Center Support, using #226....Anyone done that?

18. When using a TH400 piston in an 80E fwd drum, how is the inner seal situation handled?

19. Anyone throw an 0.040 80E Wave between bottom of the fwd, TH400 Wave and 77 steel as a way to absorb 0.040 in the stack.
Too many beers? Should I phase the waves? Constructive or destructive interference?

20. How do the Direct drums get modified for the 36-40 Sprag units? How is the race replaced?

Standing on the shoulders of giants, here.
You can go through members previous posts and read everything a member ever posted, which for me is about 1 member per night.
Theres about 5 of you I still need to get through before I start stalking your profiles on other sites and compiling all the information.

In case you were wondering about the build, I am building a compilation of information on the 4L80E, as it seems people would rather get old and die than share their findings, in many well-known cases. Many of the industry is so old, I am watching many people die yearly, clutching their "secrets" to the grave, which, IMO does their reputation and community a lasting disservice.

 

1-2-3..again
The area I chucked IS critical, its the Reaction gear Bushing race.. havent resolved the oiling passages, or seen a picture inside.
Still might be the best area to grab, although, it is entirely more durable than expected, and the outer roller clutch race might be fine to grab..

I also have an Early case, that I will be installing a Late gearset, sun shaft, and center support?
I bought a spare center to experiment with.possibly cross section.

4.. Still no answer, but I found a solution.. Hopefully posting it here doesnt bite me in the *** and run them out of stock or up in price... Ill let the pictures speak for themselves..

Tight 350 Bearing^^




5. Part 232, Front (inside) of fwd clutch hub, to fwd drum. I used a 34821-01 from Sonnax, planetary thrust bearing

• Outer Dia.: 1.802"
• Thickness: 0.168"
• Inner Dia.: 1.132"
  
  

It is the EXACT OD as the 232 washer, and the shaft *already* passes through it, at the OD carrier. The thickness is a slight issue.
A thinner bearing would be desired..

Stock is 060..
You cant cut the 108 from the fwd hub, or the snap ring wont have enough material to hang on..

The fwd hub has a 035 pad on the inside, cut that flush.
168- bearing
60- stock shim
35 off the hub

Now we only need 073 off the fwd drum inner.. reasonable..er
Take 070 and find the last 3 when setting up the stack on a bench - skim on lathe if needed.

Cutting the ID of the clutch hub inner is slightly cringe, you might worry about tearing the inner hub out, but the hub measures 6.5mm thick across the flats, so until one fails, I think itll be alright. If you got a better idea, or bearing, lets hear it!!

5. Cont..
Reaction to Int/Center support, (I've learned a lot about this interface lately, heh.
A TH350 bearing is DUMMY close, but the ID is off, even when the inner race is skimmed a ton.... I might destroy a bearing ID trying to fit one, its that close. The 4t60 bearing mentioned above is kinda large, but it clears the ID.
Here is a series a photos for reference.. I have a spare support I am going to cut and fit a bearing in.

First is the TH350 bearing, skimmed for the sun reaction mod / sun shaft ALMOST clears..


Then the 4T60 Bearing


Its a little big, and the thrust washer isnt centered, I think this is the wrong bearing for this application.


Here we can see the TH350 bearing is a better fit, and the thrust is pressed into the center of the race.



This fits great, if only I could get the bearing in there.. Why...? because.

5 Bonus Round!!
OverRun Carrier to Oil Pump Bearing in Lieu of selective washers? I only seen a fleeting reference on a FB video 12+ years ago on Jakes.. Nothing I had fit great, so I bought 34211-01K from Sonnax to see if that bearing would fit. ..

6. Hand sand all the edges and rough casting imperfections off. It might be a little wonky, or crooked, but it will fit nicely and surely conform with heat cycles.. Looks almost identical to oem unit, even the same casting marks. 300-600 grit used.

7-8. Will create a flow chart when fully comprehended... Any reading material on OEM TCM programming welcome!

9. It must be for balancing,.. the Dir drum has notches on it as well. Everything appears to have been balanced at some point..

10. Dir Drum can only be lightened if the front band is excluded. .. does anybody USE the front band..? It ONLY works in D2.. which nobody uses, and some novel valvebody reconfiguration..
Fwd Drum seems to have the most to gain from swiss-cheesing it. Is there any downside to cutting 60 holes in the perimeter of the drum like the smart drum? ... Is there a Jazzed up TH400 drum I can use in here?

11. Nobody,
and Used Fwd drums are $$$.. especially Early with the pressed in steel seal sleeve..
Might be a market to sell Fwd drums that have a new sleeve for the input, a 4T65 bushing (update with P/N), and maybe some holes drilled in the side for weight-loss. or a cut at the front for a bearing as mentioned in 5.

12. Nope.
Customers dont give feedback. Neither do retailers or companies who use them.
They feel its "rude" or otherwise "not their place" to "tell them how to do it" ,
despite Durabond not being performance transmission builders.. The world is retarded.
Laziness gilded by political correctness.
Case
Fwd
OD Sun
are all inferior designs... The tailshaft bushing looks like it could be deeper as well!

I will check them all when I am done, but the kit is FAR from ideal..

13. Sun Shaft short because... laziness? Cost savings?
Doesn't seem to crash into anything.. Any ideas?
Lets see a 300M fully splined tube!

14. Can the early sun gear with the larger hole be used if the mainshaft is Hollow (Sonnax/Early)..?

15. Tell me I put it in the "wrong" spot! Ahaha
Bonus points if you know what kinda machine that is.
Check out the feathered offramp on the wedge..? from factory the transition is quite ugly.
(more pics coming)

Tried for the thick part of the housing, wasnt keen on going into a wall or a threaded hole.
Various TH400 pumps for reference, and they seemed to be going After the last bolt..
Before the last bolt is also suggested. as close to the floor as you dare.
I probably could have eeked out another thou or so.


Two thoughts here,
1. it functions as a *cushion* to keep the outer gear off, and/or
2. it allows lube to be pulled out and around an otherwise dry gear.
If you believe 1, it might be better after the bolt hole, where the wear is centered.
If you believe 2, it might be better before the bolt, before the wear starts.

Porting... Holy cow that was a challenge.
You can not touch it with your finger.. You can hardly see it. Photos were nigh impossible. Zoomed in Shakey cam.

There is no discernible way to get the "back side", as the bottom pan port is too deep to do meaningful work, and coming at the back side - from the front - results in a burr with a zero-point speed at the tip that effectively cuts nothing.


.. but now, you could drive The Magic School Bus through there..

A ton of material removed.. the entire wall coming from the outside was able to be laid back.
The main drill bevel was completely laid out into a round hemisphere flush with the floor.
Do NOT touch the margins at ALL. Hence the tape (also protects against skid-offs).

I can already hear the cylinder head porters and No-men out there screeching about CSA, SSR, and flow velocity and yadda-yadda
However, I also know that plump flow is a function of before and after restrictions, like a turbo, and if you can offer more to the pump easier, it should also output more, easier.. right? Lets hear your thoughts.

 

16. Seems this is a symptom of loose front end play.
Early cases do NOT have the Lug in the case, or the associated pressure plate.. the basket/drum/cage might also be different.. haven't looked that closely. I still think its an ugly unit. Whole OD section is a kludge.

17. Duplicate of Q5.. but for the sake of records, what is the front and rear bearings used on the fwd hubs..?

For the "top" or back, people use the Ford bearing thats kinda $$, is too big ID..? The one CK suggested in his article, I have 2 PN for it..
The Sonnax unit uses a different bearing still, that requires the OD of the hub to be skimmed down. sounds better.
Im seeing a fair bit of 4T60, 4L60, C6, and a couple other goofball non-standard bearing sizes thrown around.. Would love to hear what you have used.

And what do others use for the "bottom" of front? I used the OD Carrier (inside) bearing, as its the exact OD as the original washer.

18. Still dont know!
But I got an Early 4L80E Fwd drum to test.
I want to run all 3 seals on the TH400 Piston in the 4L80E Fwd drum.. I am hoping those Coan pistons have the middle seal surface machined.
I do realize everybody else omits that seal.. I'd like to include it. "Driveway manners"

19. Incase anyone missed the Reference, or totally thought I was clowning, I will leave this to ponder.



I Know y'all hate waves!!


20. I found an answer on Jakes youtube channel.
They mill off the original, leaving a 6 sided hexagon (CNC), then press over a custom? made race.. unsure final bonding.
Are the outer races standard part someone is sourcing? (many vendors sell drums)
Only asking for curiosity, usually getting a ground race in the USA can be a challenge.

Id image it's difficult to ensure the race is aligned with the drum dead nuts, leading me to believe the entire drum was spun to finish grind the race.
(its not). Some tough work there!
Brings appreciation to the cost - when you know how its done.



UI Complaint:
People wonder why younger folks quit using the Forums and Computers, look how small of my screen is the message entry area..
Banners on Banners on Banners. Complete pain in my *** trying to format this. I guess I need a 40 inch wide curved unit from our silicon lords in Taiwan ..grumble..

 

21. When building an Early case, what is the limit of using Late Parts?

A) 99+ gears require..
Sun Gear Shaft 99+
040 Mainshaft shim
Late Center support with Plugged Center feed port?
Anything else?

B) What dictates the Early vs Late Int. pressure plate thickness?
Can they be swapped?

22. 4L80E Waves are NLA in almost every capacity. Fwd, Dir (TH400 often used - crappy quality low deflection Alto wave)
This is Especially bad for 4L80E Late Int. Waves.
You should go tell your favorite retailer to figure out a new solution...

23. Sonnax Discontinued the OD carrier rebuild and several other one-of-a-kind parts.
I don't like that. How do you rebuild the OD carriers?
"Throw in scrap and buy new" isn't a good idea. There should have been a better way to replace the Sun gear on the OR Drums - as scrapping that complicated piece has resulted in them becoming quite rare(er) lately. and manufacturing them is difficult, considering many companies struggle to make non-geared parts. (Nearly impossible in USA)

24. Can the Center Support lube hole be enlarged?
It is pathetically small, off-center, and almost makes the rear tailshaft lube tube look required - due to the Tiny hole they force the entire case lube through. I'm getting rid of the rear lube tube/AFL screwup, as 5.7 stroker aka Primetime did.
Chase it with a drill? How big?

25. Late Cases still have the front return boss....
Late Pumps still have the front ports.




What happens when I drill the front return on the Late case?
I can drill through the fitting hole (stop short of punching though)
Intercept it at the pump side.

DO NOT drill from the bottom, as this oil is being injected into the side via the Center support.
The bottom hole used to be used to transfer oil to the rear of the case on Early Models.

When oil comes back from the cooler, I will return it to the front port, then T it off the the back center support., possibly with a fixed external hardline, or P clamped AN line.

Will the pump accept this mod? and should anything be done internally?
How to block 8-49 Passages?

The goal is to supply the pump/front OD section with Cooled oil, instead of its current system which regurgitates hot oil.

I *think* there should be a passage (24) in the pump that gets blocked, (the little groove everybody points out) as the Late oil pump normally oils the front lube from the TCC regulated circuit, and thats a bullshit hack from GM. I worry about backfeeding said TCC circuit with the newly returned oil into the Late pump..
Perhaps an Early pump is the simple answer....

"Isnt that an Early case with extra steps? "
Yes, and No... There seem to be some merits to the late case, although I am trying to update a late case to early in all relevant and positive regards. See 21.

There MAY be a way to modify the Late case and Center Support to internally achieve the same modification.
(Transplant the Early Hardline into a late case... but you could argue center feed has more Volume, hence question 24)

Note:
Arta Bulletin 1117
Info: https://www.transmissiondigest.com/s...er-2014-issue/

26. Anyone have a Copy of the EARLY 4L80E Manual?
I have the Late GM Powertrain Manual print date 1998, but I'd really like to study the Early design.
Thanks. PM me if needed.

27. Lets discuss the forbidden extra check ball in the casing. Position 2
Used on the Euro cars? From what I can tell, it gives a super cushy 2-1 downshift.. how might I add that if I wanted to? To understand its function..

Many separator plates even have the holes cut.
Passage looks like a dead end.. maybe Im missing something on the plate/VB side.
Perhaps the passage is an exhaust?

28. Large Window in the case on Late models, near the Accumulators.
What is it for? Pic at 25
Checking something in the stacks? (Observation window?)
Or is it to allow oil out of the stacks, cooling the plastic accumulators (which are raised out of the oil)

29. What is the little sheet metal dingus on the inside of the oil pumps? by the 5 bolts..
What is it called - and what is the part number? They're often missing from cores that have been dicked with....
What's it do.. what happens when its missing?

30. Anyone here experiment with drilling small divots in the pump gears?
Its a lot of little work, but with a nice dividing head, it wouldn't be too terrible.

How about DLC coating the pump gears?

 

Im not ignoring, Watching , Not sure why on many things posted but all interesting I did a full roller 80e and 400 one each a ways back. Didnt document ,But can say all the bearings originated from one of these 4L60E, TH350, 4R70W as that is all we had on bearings to work from in the house, BUT WAS SUCESSFUL ,
It was on a customers request , But have often wondered the advantage as other than the rear case washer commonly worn and a must with a brake unit unless flat cut gears in back . I have torn down 100s of 4L80E units over the years, usually high milage work units and seen the original and even the plastic ones discolored but otherwise perfect 200k miles in heavy trucks never even serviced so friction must not in any properly working situation be of much if any consequence.
Also the "porting" of fluid passages Im not grasping the whys of as reality volume is not the target in any auto but hydraulic PSI and volume for a split moment on a friction apply. In fact other than enlarging a clutch feed some to make it apply quicker but ideally would be with little in the way of volume i would think (no leaks) . I have found myself actually restricting volume to places like the converter and even cooler.
Now the pump capabilities of the 80E does come into question which is why we go to such effort to find and fix leaks , But seems anything to address that would be better served with deeper gears ?
Carry on , Just didnt want you to think you were ignored. Just watching with curiosity .

 

Nice to hear from you! Frank!

It would be great to know what you and others have been using for roller thrust bearings in various locations!
"The difference between science and screwing around, is writing it down!"

You gotta publish it too.. bragging about 6000 pages of this, or a book you dont release for 15+ years, doesnt help..
Neither do shop papers that get recycled, after your funeral, when nobody in the family has any clue what they mean... *ahem*

Were you able to fit a bearing on the Rear of the Center, or the Pump-OD?
Those are the only places I have left to do.. as previous ramblings indicate..

The Rear of the Center LOOKS like a TH350 bearing will fit.. barely.. the ID is a Slight problem.
The Thrust area is perfect..
I'd like to disassemble a center section (somehow)..
Anyone want to commit a screwed up center? Take it apart and post it.

For the Pump-OD, the above bearing I used in #4 on the Reaction/planetary is also SO CLOSE... The thrust surface is perfect, but again and ID problem.. I was thinking about cutting the seal-land/gland down enough to let it slip over.. not sure if the seals can tolerate the reduced backup.. probably not a brilliant idea.. curious how the TH400 pump bearing from Sonnax fits. .
If you have a pile of Thrust bearings, try and see what fits.

Cutting out the center section front under the Dir drum is a no-brainer... its $10 to roller the rear of the drum.. And it spins reverse, and has a band yanking on it. Do it on every build.

It costs more to get a bearing for the rear of the Fwd hub (which still isnt recorded - outside the BS Ford bearing - which sucks. C'mon spill the beans). I wouldnt reccomend any of the aftermarket Fwd Hubs, outside Coan or Sonnax, everyone else is tryna bust your arm off and shove it up your *** over a secret* part number on a sub-optimal OEM part.

If you don't have a lathe to DIY your own bearings, you shouldnt be buying the **** from "vendors".
You dont have a good way to adjust anything.
Buy a Southbend 9 for 1-2k and restore it -

Of which, I've found every private guy in a garage - or eBay account to be.. well... ****.
Lotta mouth breathers in the Auto trans community.
Don't worry, I wont stick around too long!


As far as Porting, have you ever kinked a hose 2 inches from the end and watched it gurgle and froth?
Turbulent flow is absolute crap. And while this is unlikely to produce laminar flow, it is VASTLY improved.

I will take the case out - and shove a Garden hose on it for you - and shoot a picture.

25. The DUAL CASE FEED was easy as...
With all these Dicks in the Room, it still took 30 years to plug a hole!
It's a shame that it wasn't included in the LATE vs EARLY thread.. surface level brainpower..
Plug the hole in the oil pump with a M5 0.8mm plug + Loctite 567. (Or use EARLY pump)
I measured it at 0.160-165".. Considered a 11/64 ball, but I dont trust em.

Drill and tap the case from the side ~1.5 inch, and down from the front ~0.5 inch
Deepen as Required. Then port it! hahah

For the Love of God, Use a Drill guide!!
A tube on the side will do, and (if anyone wants another product!!!!!) a jig for the pump hole, that could bolt onto the middle bolt between the supply/return ports. You could make the jig out of an old oil pump that you chop the feed section off.
Anyone want to make a prototype jig/tool?
You'd need a dead oil pump body to cut up and drill through the back side.

Friend I'm working with, took the job of drilling the holes in the case crooked as a dog's back leg.. SMFH..
"Good... enough"
I ported them straight(er) and called him a dumbass.. It will get a touch of ATF-rated RTV and assembled.
Do Better!!

Side of Case is tapped for 1/4 NPT.. screw that NPSM noise. - to 6 AN.
Where it gets a T that goes to the rear of the case.
3/8 NPT probably could also fit, but at this time you are over-feeding the front of the case, as the rear lube tube through the VB is no longer there to drain into the back..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~
This is, in my opinion, WAY better lube situation than ANY early case.
Oiling the mainshaft, through the tailshaft, is ******* stupid.
Center-feed FTW!!

Don't believe the Early OD Roller Clutches are better.. The Newer design was scientifically warranted, and you should read the GM tech manual... Theyve been proven time and time again well over 2000-2500 hp range. The gears were also made larger in 99.. and in 04, they removed the front feed boss to do the mod described above.... As such, the ideal case is a 99-03 unit.

The Late roller clutch failures are much more likely due to the shitty hack of a lube circuit they made. Look at the joke of a notch they bleed the TCC circuit with into the front feed hole. You aint oiling **** with that.

At this point, we are center feeding a hollow mainshaft directly though the center support/sun shaft. The AFL circuit and TCC regulated feed are isolated AWAY from the lube circuits, as originally designed. We are not squeezing the entire lube channel through the tailshaft, forward, against G forces. The Early design is incredibly stupid, in this regard

Everyone needs to do both of these mods to any serious build, IMO.

The line-lube drill hole is also idiotic.
Get the internally regulated PR valve.
Amazing how many of these "known mods" are actually really dumb, and the really good obvious mods, arent documented.. GG at failing, community.



31. Has anyone Calculated the CSA of the LUBE passages?
Make a flow chart of all the passages, where they connect to and their CSA..
I have a suspicion that drilling out everything to 0.125 (way too BIG!) is stupid and results in a lazy circuit.
The cut-off wheel in the sungear is one of the dumbest things.
Switch to an Early gear/mainshaft if you wanna dump oil there.

The Late Center got the front sprag lube hole opened from 60-70 to 100.
Oil Pump Stator drilled with 100. (ugly off angle drill.),
1/4" Pump cover drainback

are the ONLY mods I would recommend.
As per 24, I believe the Center support is a glaring limitation.
Will somebody with a dead center support drill out the lube passage with increasingly large drill bits until it ruptures through the casting?
Record and post that number. It costs $50 tops. Contribute back to the community!!
(You can check the rear for TH350 bearing fitment while you're there!)

I have another 4-5 questions and about a dozen more pics, but it is SO SUNNY outside!
I'll chat with y'all later...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTW, deeper gears is a great idea, but this community is a bit of a stick in the mud.
Who will make the gears.. Boundry? Cool. What about the case?......
"Oh but the Casting costs 500 MILLION dollars to get made stateside" - Insert Domestic American Mfg Bullshit
Karen at the front desk isnt interested, today.
Her kids pissed her off at 7am getting ready for indoctrination.. I mean, school.., and the boss will give you "****-you quotes" to make his responsibilities lighter. I've all but given up on making anything stateside.
Outsource it whenever possible.

Workers and companies will do anything to do nothing. They get paid the same.
Work-from-home became turn-all-business-away,
"Im busy going bankrupt, and burning my reputation"
It's like you never watched Office Space.

Who is interested in Billet 4L80E Pistons?

Tired of using these TH400 pistons - as a hack. Its not proper.
The Fwd intermediate seal cant be used, and it Could!, with only a Very Small design change.
Some people prefer not having their teeth knocked out everytime they shift into D.

I was quoted an MOQ of 100 units.
Somebody buy the other 99 and sell them on your eBay store.
You'll be the only one with the product..
The only current ad-hoc bullshit solution is a crappy bonded fwd piston with Jakes billet spring seats.
Trash-heap.

Maybe I'll outsource the billet pistons to china too.
I'll get them in 1/4 the time for 1/2 the cost outta 2x material.

Off to touch grass!

 

Y'all need a fire lit under your ***.
Old men sitting comfy - in their mediocrity.
Too afraid to speak - with nothing productive to add.
Full of venom and bitterness.
Impressive as a lame magician.

"Watch these rings very closely"
*juggles intermediate snap rings*
"oooOOOoooo"


And to any prospective future builders, or future "Me"s,
get a surface plate aka rock aka stone.
I found a $1500 Starett Grade A on FB for $150 from some old Karen who's son offed himself. (Nobody cares about men - ever)

And some high quality 3M sandpaper.
Brake clean your Pressure plates, (all 5)
Tape the sand paper to the stone with new fresh Scotch Masking tape, (keeps steady, prevents paper rounding edges, keeps grit from under paper)
and start with 120 and work up to 220 in 2-3 steps.
Grab a rubber eraser to break up any clogging on the sandpaper.

You're welcome.
The only person to ever mention this is dead; and didnt publish his book, and now his website/business is defunct, which is great.

32. Effects of Over-springing the piston return? Fwd? Dir? What happens?
What about adding 4HD springs in with the 12 originals?

33. Who drills a bleed in their fwd drum? Size?

34. How long do those Clutch separator pieces last?
Used in a Weekend car, in the Direct drum.. 1 year.. 3 years? 5 years? Indefinitely?
FKM/Viton strips good?
Whos got experience with them (That they can share - without inflating their ego so big it pops - X to Doubt)

35. Interested in a True Dual feed for 3rd, and Clean Neutral VB, as well as 4th engine braking? for Auto-std guys? I am.
Will post findings shortly. If you have any info, post it up!


18 Update I wrote a program for TH400 pistons with 4L80E inner bore for the Fwd drum.
Anyone else see their utility? or want one.. I might make 8 of them to test the program..
(Im sure they will be promptly copied and sold by the companies that refused me)
Alternatively, I could make press in sleeves that go in TH400 piston bores to reduce them inner to 4L80 Fwd diameter.
Alternate #2.. I could create sleeve that presses into the FWD drum that mimics the TH400/Direct sized seal.
(These aren't for transbrake guys, this a purely for street cars with Std (non Tbrake VBs) fwd/rev auto/manual, dont matter.
It softens the drop into D or 1 from N

22 Update Who should I ask for random hard parts?
Many of the well known vendors who part out trans everyday seem to omit or throw away several of the desirable parts.
Global, WIT etc. They seem to half-*** the part outs.. maybe I should get into it.

4L80e Int Waves (need to update an early case to late int spec. - will post findings)
Fretting Rings (few trans missing them...)
4th OD Piston Snap ring (grew legs and walked away)
2nd servo assy. (needed for band update - always scrapped by Global/WIT)
(I'll buy those from whoever is selling)

Have a good day, everyone.

Don't forget to look at the sun,
eat something that grew from the ground,
and help a friend.

 

Some suggestions for post that may get you more response, Let me say most of us on here with few exceptions are busy building for and talking to interacting with customers and of course never ending paper work (taxes at present) .
But We at least I do try and interact here to help and advise people when we can.
I under two names have 10000 or more post here. NOT including responses and other interaction.

That said , What I have found over the years is simpler post in one specific area or item seem to get more response than longer multi subject post . Like myself when I see a long post I scan over it and if it appears need longer elboarate answers or answers to multiple question or subject , My mine will say to be to much to deal with ill come back to it when i have some time, TROUBLE is the time does not often come.
So My advice . Make shorter smaller post about some specific thing even if same trans and you will likely get more response, And of course never be condescending of any response as many ways all workable and right can many times accomplish same end, Plus if someone sees a neg response it makes others deter from answering to. .
Just some advice.
You did ask about a bearing to fit under the center support earlier and the answer from me is to date i have found nothing that will fit in there , I did consider the older AOD with race on one side but never actually tried one to see as in the moment I thought of it I didnt have one laying round but it seemed in my head anyway about the size.
Most of us including myself find things that will work in the moment to do things with just laying around shop and sometimes we document others plan to then just forget as we move along depending on wither we think its super useful or just an in the moment thing.
Also bear in mind this forum sadly is not any place near as active as it once was. While I do sponsor here. Truth is its probably at best a break even deal for me on return.
Which is sad because it contains decades of information by many very smart people .
I would dare to say probably every question or comment you have made has been addresses at some time and is archived in this someplace. Search this forum thing can be useful though not the best search engine.

 

Messages Boards are unfortunately not Fast-Moving enough to offer the masses of our youth the Stimuli desired...

So with the little interest available here, things just take time (further compounding the above).
You will just need patience... People will read and interact in time.

My Father put a ton of time into this Message Board over a long time, and still often saw less involvement than he wanted.
It is what it is.

You have to do what you can to share what you can, and not expect anything in return.
He loved it here! And I try to follow and spend some time here too!

Frank had great advise in regard to Posting!
Be specific, clear, precise, and in small increments...
Many readers are not able to follow you.

Response usually improves that way!

 

Thank you Both for posting.

I do Not expect anything in return. Think of this as a public record of my mania .
I do not have patients, but I have some patience.

I see less involvement than I want, over the last 30 years.
How depressing.

I see references to your father, and Chris, as if nothing can be done to further what they started, and I think thats.. bullshit.
We can continue with their intent and fix things as they would've.

If the answers to my questions have been answered, why dont you take a swing at answering some?
Bolden the number and write a response. Did you not go to school?
This was the exact same format (albeit extremified) as 5.7/primetime did, (which his PDF was an enormous catalyst to this build)

If I am sounding negative, its because I am reading dead men's writing.
We are alive. They gave everything they were willing to give, and now we need to move on, and not stop.
Chello, you need to release your father writings.
Chris's wife needs to get that text published as a PDF, at least.
Dont let their work be in vain.

I grew up reading the Sunnen manual by John G Edwards aka Fiatnutz on YT. its literally a case of almost everybody being dead. We can just quit cause they died.

You are absolutely correct that many of you are too busy to extend or further your craft.
I can see that, like a car passing in the right lane.

Once you gain an appreciable marketable advantage, you become so saturated in work that you cant continue to study your craft at all. In order to protect it, you make these little bullshit secrets about what bearings you use where, and that gives you some cheesy advantage over the other builders.

My complaint with that, and metaphor I often use, is that famous painters, lets say, Picasso, da Vinci, or van Gogh, arent famous because of the canvas or paint they used, but the skill they crafted it with. All the components are/were available to anyone, and it was no secret. If you are a damn good transmission builder, you shouldnt need secret parts to prove your work.
Your work should stand for itself, and people wont be able, (or want to), attempt replicating it.

The same goes for tuning a car.

However, many people are insecure of their craft and dont believe they have any divine or innate ability that exceeds the others - and rely on secrets and bullshit to increase their perceived worth.

I learned decades ago to not ever, ever, count on the internet to solve a single problem, ever.
There is little more than jeering, and one-upping each other.

As far as making things concise, neither of the previous transmission techies were either!
If you cant read a coupe hundred wpm, then youre gonna be left in the dust.
I am totally OK with lesser minded people not being able to follow, theyre not my audience, and need to step up their game, imo

 

After my Father's passing there was a lot of interest in his extensive Notes/ Writings on all of the Power-Train Systems that he designed and built; as well as his thoughts and ideas for a massive spectrum/ amount of anything and everything GM.

So I had asked everyone for help collecting and organizing it all, but unfortunately I was left to do it myself.
I made a huge dent in it all, but there is much more to go.

Unfortunately, just as my family line has passed along some brilliant Genes...
Genes with severe illness have also been passed along.

He passed from severe degenerative autoimmune related heart and brain damage...
Which I have now also been suffering from, for a very long time.

With where I am currently, it is very likely that I will be passing before his Notes are ready, let alone my own writings and notes.