eric01ss

iTrader: (13)

actually have to get the track 1 400 chevy kit form brodix no the 18 degree heads they said would work because they forgot about the pistons i'm using so have to change the top end now is BBBBBloooowwwwssss

nitrorocket

iTrader: (12)

If you want to do it right. Change to 18 degree pistons, and go with dart 18's. They make the brodix look like a kids toy.

1QuickT-A

iTrader: (12)

any flow numbers on the dart 18's compared to the brodix 18's? Also what are the prices on the dart 18's.. and can you run 23 degree valvetrain parts on them?

1QuickT-A

iTrader: (12)

oh and if you do have to get some brodix 23 heads then dont get the track 1's.. they will not compare to the brodix 18's in any way. They are a descent set of heads, but not the best by any means.

eric01ss

iTrader: (13)

so your saying the track 1 are no good then

so what do u recommend

eric01ss

iTrader: (13)

aCTually going to get my top end from AFR so kiss on that and my motor should make around 640 at the flywheel guys also did i mention my dual stage nitrous kit 150 then a 225 shot all the power of gas and nitrous

PRAY HRD

iTrader: (119)

you must be building an all out 14:1CR motor if you want to get a 23* head motor to make 640 hp. i'm not saying it's impossible because i don't know for sure, but you'd better be preparred to spend a pretty penny on a professional port job. and just curious, where did you get that figure from.

eric01ss

iTrader: (13)

i'm just paying around but it should be makin around 590-600 because afr 406 with 10.1 compression dynoed at 580

PRAY HRD

iTrader: (119)

damn good #'s! i thought it would take more than that. is that AFR's fully ported head?

eric01ss

iTrader: (13)

yeah it is and that is at the flywheel so about 540 to the rear on my nova

eric01ss

iTrader: (13)

o yeah it is fully ported cnc head with 3 angle valve job

nitrorocket

iTrader: (12)

To go with Dart 18's you need:
-offset solid roller lifters
-Offset shaft rocket system
-5 degree angle 18 degree intake
-18 Dart degree heads
-18 degree headers

These heads will make more power then any other SBC head in the world besides SB2.2 heads. Even at that, the SB2.2 heads will only flow 5% more air on the exhaust side. These heads start off flowing where other heads max out. A fully cnc'd set of Track 1's will flow about 330-340 cfm. The Dart 18's flow 335 CFM as cast!!! Put it this way, instead of having to tune the **** out of your motor just to make a couple more horse, and then hit a dead end. You will have about 200 more horse to play with on an 18 degree setup. Not to mention that a set of ready to rock Track 1's fully ported will run over $3000. A little more $$$ and you could have had Darts. Actually I have a good friend that just built a 408 with cnc'd track 1's and a matching intake and 12:1 with race gas. On the engine dyno he made 580 hp. He was very dissapointed knowing what mt my old 18 degree motor will do with 10.5:1 on pumpgas! It's all what you want I guess. Ask yourself, How many motors have you built? You will never need another set of heads if you go with Dart 18's. And NO, I do not work for Dart!

PRAY HRD

iTrader: (119)

quote:
On the engine dyno he made 580 hp. He was very dissapointed knowing what my old 18 degree motor will do with 10.5:1 on pumpgas!

yea......over 600! would love to have it dyno'd before going with the turbo cam, just out of curiosity.

Dave

1QuickT-A

iTrader: (12)

Well, I don't have the money to mess with the 18* Darts simply because you have to change out the whole top end of the motor to accomodate the heads.. I think the 18* heads would be overkill on my 383 anyways. Especially with it being a street car. So I'm just gonna go with a set of AFR 220's and get them hand ported for more flow. I talked to Craig at GTP and he said he can get 320-330 & 250-260 cfm out of them but its gonna cost me.

nitrorocket

iTrader: (12)

Your looking closer to 650 with a good tune. Thats a big *** motor!!!

CTSV05

Excuse me for saying so....but thats bullshit!!!

Ain't gonna happen!!

The only way for those #s on a standard 23* is to go with 26", and manipulate the flow.

Mine were flowed on a certified by Superflow bench, and we blew other heads that were done elsewhere, and the #s were way off.

Hell the Trick Flow 18*s only claim 325, so come on.

1QuickT-A

iTrader: (12)

First of all, calm down dude.. There are a few people that I have talked to online that have AFR 220's with lots of hand porting done to them that flow 320/250. So, I guess you are callin me and a few others liars. And I don't see how you think "it ain't gonna happen?" The 220's flow over 300 from AFR with the CNC work that they do. And hand porting is always better than what a machine can do if its done by an experienced porter. Hell if you don't think its possible then call GTP and ask for Craig...

No, I haven't seen it with my own 2 eyes.. But why would he lie.. Cause most people that spend 3 Grand on a set of heads will get them flow tested before they run them. SO there would be no reason for him to lie about it. And he did a set of LT1 heads for me a few years ago and they flowed exactly what he said they would.

CTSV05

Why would he lie???

Hmmm, can't think of any reason.

It is just not there, at least not in a legitimate flow test. Those heads can't flow those #s. No standard 23* can. The Dart Pro 1 230 cnc are only claiming 218!!

Hell, AFR claimed my 220s would flow 298, and they only flowed 286, now we know they wouldn't lie.

Think about it, AFR is only claiming 325 on their RR 23* CNC'd heads. And no its just not true that a handported head is better than a cnc head. Possibly in some cases, but not usual.

Also you'd be surprised at how many will take the word of someone and not have them flowed, mostly 'cause its more of a hassle than its worth for most.

I've been doin this for a minute, and I've seen guys get their stuff dynoed, and it will come out with big #s, but be a pig at the track, there are ways to manipulate any #s to sell parts and motors.

Do what you want, just trying to help.

1QuickT-A

iTrader: (12)

Yes shops will lie and manipulate numbers to get your money. We all know that.. But, GTP is a reputable shop that lots of people on this board and many other boards spend their money with. Craig did a great job on my last set that actually flowed what was promised and made good numbers elsewhere also. But, I don't see why a AFR 220 with cnc work and hand porting touchups couldnt flow 320. The exhaust numbers might be a little high but I still think 320 could be done for sure. Angle milling, AFR CNC work, Ferrea valves, & a very good hand clean up could do it in my opinion.

AdioSS

iTrader: (2)

sorry to bring up a fairly old post. A friend of mine bought a set of the CNC'd 215RR 23° AFRs. On the School's SuperFlow 600 they did in fact flow right at 325cfm @ 28" of H2O with a 2.100" intake valve. The low and mid lift numbers were a bit lower than what AFR advertised though. Anyway, after some work by a pretty decent head porter, they are now flowing a little over 340cfm on the same flow bench.

After seeing that, I decided to get a set of 18° heads for my motor. Overall cost should be around the same, but the results should be better