Those with BBC...
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: OKC, OK
Those with BBC... Hey guys,
It so happens that I have a 454 Mk IV block in the garage and I've been thinking about building a 454 BBC to drop into a 69'-70' Camaro, and it will be a street car, not strip. I may be using it for a daily driver quite frequently with a Honda Civic as a backup car in case something happens.
I just wanted to know from those that own and drive their BBCs on the street, how reliable are BBC's driven on the street? I will be taking my time with the motor and making sure that everything is built and installed correctly according to specs.
Can they have thousands of relatively trouble free miles like a 350 SBC if driven and maintained well? I would like to get at least 75k-100k miles from my BBC motor, and I will be driving it pretty conservatively with occasional stoplight to stoplight street races. Has any of your BBCs lasted this long? A friend of mine mentioned that it may not be possible to have a BBC that's reliable like this, but I would much rather talk to those that has had experience owning and driveing BBCs. He also said a 454 BBC gets hot real quick and would probably only get about 5 mpg (But I don't really care about the gas mileage).
All your opinions are greatly appreciated.
It so happens that I have a 454 Mk IV block in the garage and I've been thinking about building a 454 BBC to drop into a 69'-70' Camaro, and it will be a street car, not strip. I may be using it for a daily driver quite frequently with a Honda Civic as a backup car in case something happens.
I just wanted to know from those that own and drive their BBCs on the street, how reliable are BBC's driven on the street? I will be taking my time with the motor and making sure that everything is built and installed correctly according to specs.
Can they have thousands of relatively trouble free miles like a 350 SBC if driven and maintained well? I would like to get at least 75k-100k miles from my BBC motor, and I will be driving it pretty conservatively with occasional stoplight to stoplight street races. Has any of your BBCs lasted this long? A friend of mine mentioned that it may not be possible to have a BBC that's reliable like this, but I would much rather talk to those that has had experience owning and driveing BBCs. He also said a 454 BBC gets hot real quick and would probably only get about 5 mpg (But I don't really care about the gas mileage).
All your opinions are greatly appreciated.
I have driven quite a few BBCs on the street and racked up many miles, and usually drove them like I hated them. If built correctly, there is NO problem cruising a big block as a daily driver. One motor that I have sitting on the engine stand, ready to go back into something, is a .125 over 454, with about 10.8-1 CR, ported oval port heads, and a decent sized COMP xtreme energy grind. I drove this almost everyday in two different vehicles, and this damn thing NEVER overheated, generally got about 10-12MPG, and provided plenty of power. It will be going into another toy soon, if not my '98 Z. One of the biggest issues with a long-lived BBC, espesially a hi-po setup is the valvetrain. They can have a tendancy to 'eat' valveguides, and are known to be hard on valvesprings simply because the valvetrain is so heavy. Just don't spin it very hard, and you will likely be suprised at how long it will last.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: OKC, OK
Can a solid roller valvetrain be totally streetable? Or should I stick with a hydraulic roller valvetrain? I don't know exactly how much a solid roller will have on the reliability and longetivity of the engine.
I'm interested in a solid roller setup for better throttle response, but again, I have no personal experience driving a solid roller motor. I know that with a solid roller setup, you have to change the springs every 15-20k miles because the valvetrain takes so much abuse. I plan to use a lot of high quality parts such as titanium retainers to lighten the valvetrain as much as possible. The car will not have A/C or power steering. I will probably be using an electric water pump.
I'm interested in a solid roller setup for better throttle response, but again, I have no personal experience driving a solid roller motor. I know that with a solid roller setup, you have to change the springs every 15-20k miles because the valvetrain takes so much abuse. I plan to use a lot of high quality parts such as titanium retainers to lighten the valvetrain as much as possible. The car will not have A/C or power steering. I will probably be using an electric water pump.
Teching In
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Sin CIty
A BBC will last as long as you let it. The better quality, and lighter weight (but still strong) parts you use the longer it will last. I ran a solid roller SBC on the street in Vegas for the past three years. Never a BBC so I can't say from personal experience, but it should be fine. If you plan on spinning it past 5500-6000 all the time then it may only last a year or two, but if you stay below 6K and treat her right she will be fine for a long time to come. For MPG, well that depends on the gears, stall, tranny and weight of the vehicle but I would expect between 10-15. Good luck.
A solid roller should be fine, but what exactly are your goals with this engine? What do you want out of it? If properly built, a BBC can be good for higher RPM antics, but this requires the right bottomend, and a very good balance. A few years back when we were still bracket racing, we ran a 505 BBC injected on alky, and regularly spun it to 8500, and rarely had problems. But, we kept a very close eye on the the bearings, and went through the valves regularly. It can be done, but you really need to nail down what your goals are before buying a single part.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: OKC, OK
I'm looking to get 600 hp out of it. It will be driven on the street a lot, so it will have to run on pump gas (91-93 octane). I would like to be able to spin it up to 6800-7000 rpm. I'm not too concerned about gas mileage. It will be a naturally aspirated engine(no power adders), and I'm definitely going to go with aluminum heads(either Brodix or Dart heads) in order to gain 1 more point of compression which I think should be around 10.5. I want it to have serious street performance. That is all I know for now.
I'm not sure if my goals are realistic or not, what do you all think?
Any recommendations or suggestions? Does anyone know of a good combo?
I'm not sure if my goals are realistic or not, what do you all think?
Any recommendations or suggestions? Does anyone know of a good combo?
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I would not recommend using a solid roller. I would go with a hydraulic roller. I recently pulled my hydraulic and installed solid. I diffinetly get more rpm and performance out of the solid, but at the price of constant adjustments. The hydraulic is the way to go for everyday driving. I got about 6500-6700 rpm out of the hydraulic, and I have a similar set up that your looking for ( ie. 10.5 - 1 comp. ratio, square port 2.25", 93 octane ). And as for how long they last, my cousin has a bone stock 454 in his 70's work truck that has over 200.000 miles.
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Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
We have a motor with 10.5 compression with iron heads. No detonation. With aluminum heads you should be able to increase compression. Especially with a lopey 7k cam you will be bleeding off enough pressure to get away with close to 11:1.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
From: OKC, OK
Firechikn, I've been leaning more and more to the hydraulic setup lately because of less maintenance and I wouldn't have to worry about the valvetrain too much. How much power were you making with your hydraulic setup? Could you also estimate how much more power and rpm you got from switching to a solid roller setup? Yeah, the solid roller is a lot more maintenance, but I'm wondering how long does your adjustments take? From what I've heard, you would have to check valve lash with feeler gauges, possibly replace springs, and some other things every 10-15k miles or so. Changing the oil takes 15 mins, and I usually wait most of the time for the oil to drain out. If making the adjustments take an hour or less, I might still consider the solid setup.
What brand of heads do yall recommend? I was thinking of going either Dart or Brodix. They will definitely be aluminum heads for more compression, that's a given.
I appreciate all your help guys!
What brand of heads do yall recommend? I was thinking of going either Dart or Brodix. They will definitely be aluminum heads for more compression, that's a given.
I appreciate all your help guys!
https://ls1tech.com/forums/small-block-big-block-chevy-specific/375212-free-shipping-these-items-we-open-labor-day.html
Check out the Holley/Lingenfelter cylinder heads and the 550 hp kit that I have on sale in the thread above. We've made some really good power with the parts listed above. Bob
Check out the Holley/Lingenfelter cylinder heads and the 550 hp kit that I have on sale in the thread above. We've made some really good power with the parts listed above. Bob
Checking valve lash doesn't take too long, but I would do at least every oil change on a solid roller. As long as you have a way to roll over the motor, it should go just fine. It will likely take you longer to take the valve covers off than it does to adjust/check his valves.
I would say on average it takes about 1 hour to adjust the valves. That includes removing valve covers and plug wires. Typically I only have to adjust 2-3 on each side. I did install a push button connection on my starter, which worth its weight in gold. As far as power and rpm difference, I've never dynoed either motor, but I would guess a conservative 30-40 hp over the hydraulic ( partially due to cam profile as well ). The real advantage comes from the rpm range. I shift the solid motor at 7000, and have pushed it a bit more from time to time. With hydraulic it started to flatten at about 6500 +-, but the solid will twist as tight as you want. Or until you sling a rod through the block. As far as heads, I run cast iron, cause I'm afraid I'll kill an aluminum pair with my 250 shot N2O. I have no problem with 10.5 - 1 compresson. You should be able to run a bit more with aluminum. With my new set up I'm coating the pistons and heads, and try to run 11 - 1 comp. ratio on 93 octane. I figure if it detonates I'll just add mixture of 116 to the 93. Hope this helps have fun.
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
Concerning the heads I am hearing great things about canfield 310 cc heads. I have never run them. I am really curious to see what any of you have done with them. I was suprized with the price 1400 for a bare pair (I hope thats not a typo). And the builder I am using can get them for less. Check out the site and tell me what you think. http://www.canfieldheads.com/bbc_310.html
Originally Posted by jarediocamaro
Concerning the heads I am hearing great things about canfield 310 cc heads. I have never run them. I am really curious to see what any of you have done with them. I was suprized with the price 1400 for a bare pair (I hope thats not a typo). And the builder I am using can get them for less. Check out the site and tell me what you think. http://www.canfieldheads.com/bbc_310.html
Here is the link. These heads are near the bottom of the page.
http://www.gofaststuff.com/heads.html
Staging Lane
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
From: Lincoln, NE
Canfields They are a great heads flow & power wise, but be careful. here is why, the exhuast ports are raiseed .600" over stock, with a lot a vehicles this can cause major header fitment problems. The bigger the header primary tubes the more problems you may have, not all vehicles will experience this though. Just something to think about.
Originally Posted by Bud794
I'm looking to get 600 hp out of it. It will be driven on the street a lot, so it will have to run on pump gas (91-93 octane). I would like to be able to spin it up to 6800-7000 rpm. I'm not too concerned about gas mileage. It will be a naturally aspirated engine(no power adders), and I'm definitely going to go with aluminum heads(either Brodix or Dart heads) in order to gain 1 more point of compression which I think should be around 10.5. I want it to have serious street performance. That is all I know for now.
I'm not sure if my goals are realistic or not, what do you all think?
Any recommendations or suggestions? Does anyone know of a good combo?
I'm not sure if my goals are realistic or not, what do you all think?
Any recommendations or suggestions? Does anyone know of a good combo?
first of all, 600hp is nothing for a big block to achieve these days with the way aftermarket aluminum heads flow right out of the box. to give you an idea, my small block with a solid roller makes right around 625-650hp naturally aspirated and on 93 octane! did i say it was a small block?! true, it's a pretty radical setup, but the heads are box stock! you don't want to spin a BBC up to those kind of RPM's either. you shouldn't really have to spin it past 6200 for the power you're looking at making, especially with a hyd. roller setup becuase you'll have valve float a bit beyond that. your goals are very realistic, you just need to understand it a bit more.
Originally Posted by jarediocamaro
Concerning the heads I am hearing great things about canfield 310 cc heads. I have never run them. I am really curious to see what any of you have done with them. I was suprized with the price 1400 for a bare pair (I hope thats not a typo). And the builder I am using can get them for less. Check out the site and tell me what you think. http://www.canfieldheads.com/bbc_310.html
I have Canfield 310's on my 496 BBC with an .800 lift solid roller. I don't have any complaints about them, although the header fitment is a slight issue on the #2 cylinder when using 2-1/8" headers. It needs a carefully placed dent in the tube to clear the upper a-arm bolt. No biggie though.
They have CNC'd versions out now too that supposedly gain about 40cfm over the 'as cast' ports. I'm having mine done this winter.
As for maintenance on a solid roller, if you spend some money up front on good shaft rockers (even the $700 Jesel Sportsmans) you'll need way fewer regular adjustments. I check mine about every 20 passes and they rarely need adjustment and that's on a cam with almost 300* duration at .050" and .800" lift.
That's a sweet '68 Firdbird you've got!
I'm about to ditch the LT1 and do a 496 in my '68. Could you tell me a little more about the motor? How much power is it making? How high do you rev it? Compression, etc, etc?
Thanks buddy.
Raymond
I'm about to ditch the LT1 and do a 496 in my '68. Could you tell me a little more about the motor? How much power is it making? How high do you rev it? Compression, etc, etc?
Thanks buddy.
Raymond
Originally Posted by '68LT1camaro
That's a sweet '68 Firdbird you've got!
Originally Posted by '68LT1camaro
I'm about to ditch the LT1 and do a 496 in my '68. Could you tell me a little more about the motor? How much power is it making? How high do you rev it? Compression, etc, etc?
