Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

i'm sure
wheel to wheel in michigan can build ya something nice. that place i heard is candyland for adults. i plan on visiting sometime this year.

Quickin

From what I'm hearing, stay away from the LSx based engines for big power by way of boost. The WarHawk LS7X block from "WORLD" has 6 studs per cylinder so maybe that would be the best bet for a small block set-up if the LSx type block is used. 4 studs just doesn't cut it anymore.

But MY GOD, imagine using the FTM 598ci Procharged set-up They're making 1,000 hp on pump gas with small heads and very little boost, completely streetable daily driver with fuel injection, crazy man.

.

Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

depends what your definition of big power is.. you can have all the power in the world but if you can't put it to the ground what's the sense in having it? You don't want a dyno queen you want a car that "RUNS"

lsx engines are comfortably making 1000 hp now, in fact Jose at forcedinductions.com just built a motor that put 1123 rwhp.

more headbolts per cylinder will keep those heads from lifting under BIG Boost but have your priced a bare block and bare heads for those lately? BIG $$$ How many people honestly need or want that much power for a street car? Unless you are Willie from Orlando you simply don't need it cause all you'll have is tire spin.

BBC's have been making over 1000 hp for years and years. Trying to do that on pump gas will take a lot of cubes.. It can be done easily with a blower on less than 10 lbs of boost with a F1 blower but have you priced a combo like that lately?


Bottom line you can you can debate and make a valid argument either way. Either combo can make sick power.

It takes a lot of money either way.

Throw some my way I want to go fast too!

Quickin

I don't understand why people just don't use wide R-Compound tires for street use, only when they plan to race. I only know one guy that uses them, 335's on his Viper. He has 800 RWHP and can stomp it to the floor from a 50-60 roll and not spin at all. Marko told me on the phone that his 1,520 RWHP Supra can go WOT from a 70 roll if he rolls into the throttle. Thats all you have to do with big power. Willie does it, right? My Viper friend does it with 980 RWHP.

Alot of cubes alright, the FTM BBC is a 598ci

GrnDragon

iTrader: (4)

I'm really liking this thread! I have been trying to decide between a TT LSx or an all aluminum 598 with EFI, Hogans Intake, and coil per cylinder ignition. I have been talking with FTM for over a month now, and have gotten a pretty good quote for the complete 598 based off the new Brodix Block and heads, and supposed to make 900+FWHP. I just need to save 1/2 down so they can start building the engine.

Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

R compound tires don't last and they're expensive.

rolling into the throttle is a science. Willie does not have this science figured out, everybody knows that, that is why he really won't run anybody with equal power. That is why he has to do high speed roll races.

I'd like to see that 800 rwhp viper

Marko has admitted that his car was spinning the tires at well over 100 mph, making a lot less power so I find it hard to believe with 1500 hp, he just pedaled it a little bit and then he hooked..

1500 hp is what prostock cars have to go 7's on big *** slicks and professional built chassis.

People make jokes about why some people cant drive their high hp cars (like Willie), its not as easy as you think. If it were as easy as just modulating the throttle everybody would hook on the street and on the track..Everyone would win. Its takes a combination of suspension and chassis setup to dial in the car and that usually takes a while before its all figured out.

I've seen high hp cars get beat by cars they should have destroyed because the slower car hooked better and had the all important driver mod factor.

Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

I was at the US Nationals at Bradenton this past weekend, let me give you an idea of what a single turbo (94mm) 408 ls1 motor can do in a 3400 lb Formula race car.

It went 8.1 at 174 mph going into a 20 mph headwind on 315/60/15 drag radials.

Do a search on the Ohio Boys, they placed 4th out of a 36 car field. Motor was built by Wheel 2 Wheel in Michigan.

Quickin

I know, just for races though. And R-Compound tires are very very cheap if you own a turbo Viper This guy has two sets of HRE 545 rims, one with street tires and one set with R-Compounds.

I'm trying to set up a race between the 980 RWHP TT Viper and the cheezeball in the "Kills" section with the Lavernious turbo Mustang Mach 1. He can go WOT from a 70mph roll on with no spin on street radials. Hopefully it happens and we'll go down there and film it from one of the angles. He back to me today and said the guy is scared to race his friends 850 RWHP Viper so he's probably not going to want to run one that will totally destroy him. He knows the Mustang owner.

Quickin

I spoke with Graham, nice guy. I don't know how much a completely built, installed and tuned TT LSx based engine set up will cost because it would have to all be custom made. But if you spoke with him about the 598ci with the upgraded heads and larger Procharger, it can't be a huge difference in price. But you'll have 1,500 RWHP. I spoke with More Performance, Katech, even asked LPE at one time, and they all said if you use an LSx based engine it'll be a ticking time bomb at big power levels. Katech even said the C5R was designed to only make 750 hp. but people are pushing them for more.

I know people are making 1,200 and 1,300 RWHP with the LSx based engines but thats with C16 race gas and seriously built LSx's, they're running on the ragged edge. A BBC would be running easy. Thats why its a nice option.

The 1,000 hp BBC you were probably talking about was the mild 598ci with the small Procharger. Run on 91 0ctane everywhere you go and retain A/C and all other accessories. Than spray it if you want

If you go LSx based, use the Warhawk block. FTM is doing all of Monty's machine work on his Warhawk block when it comes in for his TT 427 build. He's going for 1,600 hp.

All this talk makes me almost pee my pants


.

GrnDragon

iTrader: (4)

The engine I had quoted, from Graham, was actually my own specs to run NA at about 11 to 1 compression and still make 900+ FWHP.

Quickin

Big lumpy cam, or pretty smooth?


.

Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

Having a Big Block and NOT having a big nasty sounding cam is a mortal sin.

What I like about the small block lsx motors is that they are very efficient and they are light and they can built to rev very quickly and respond very well to turbos and superchargers.

its all about Power to weight ratio. That's why you see cam only cars hit bottom 10's. Also the front to rear ratio is about 55/45. With a BBC 598 ci with a procharger and I bet that will put you at 65/35. Can you say tire spin?


spending 30 plus grand on just a "mild" big block motor alone is ludicrous. I'd rather have a forced induction lsx motor that runs on c16 with forged internals. c16 is good insurance against detonation and on the street with normal driving you can put pump gas in. No special mods need to be done to make it all fit, just some fabricating for the intercooler pipes, simple combo that works.

If you would have came to bradenton to the US Nats and seen the Ohio boys turbo cars running, you'd see what I mean, they were running against Big block cars.

you're getting too hooked on dyno numbers, dynos don't win races.

my car full weight made 485 to the tire (before it was retuned) and its running consistent 11.0's in full street trim on a drag radial. My car probably weighs around 3550. I have no suspension done. I'm on pump gas. Just a good Supercharged combo and I didn't spend a lot of money.

I was thinking about your car and why its losing coolant. Then I remembered that your car is sleeved. Then I also remembered how everyone with sleeved blocks back in the day was dropping sleeves and having that mysterious coolant problem. I'll bet anything that is what's happening with your motor. I remember seeing a bit of whitish smoke when you gassed it.
I would not put forced induction on THAT motor.

for what its worth there was a guy that put a 509 in an LT1 with spray and only running low 11's. I was not impressed, he should have been MUCH faster and quicker. That car wasn't exactly mild either.

GrnDragon

iTrader: (4)

Your calculations on cost for the BBC are way off, I have a complete package with computer, ignition, hogans intake, totally complete 598 ci all aluminum tall deck blocked engine with about 950+FWHP(which weighs about the same as an aluminum headed cast iron small block, LT-1) quoted at about $20,000. Also, an LS1 with a turbo system would weigh about the same as this all aluminum BBC, and a turbo/TT actually gives worse weight distribution placing the turbos out on the corners toward the front of the car(some kits). To build a comparable LS1 would cost about the same as the 598 then add the 8-9000 for a TT kit, that is pushing $30,000. The Aluminum BBC seems have the best cost/hp and weight/hp. I'm pretty set on the 598...

Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

if you are paying 30 grand for TT kit LS1 motor you are seriously getting raped with no vaseline. it does not cost 30 grand to build a TT ls1. The turbos don't weigh that much man! lol. the turbos are tucked close to the engine with the reverse mounted manifolds.

hey man if you think the 598 is the way to go, go for it. as long as its fast and runs its all good.

for the record how much does your aluminum BBC weigh?

GrnDragon

iTrader: (4)

I said to build a comparable LS1, meaning aftermarket (stronger) block C5R or Warhawk and every other component is about the same price as building the aluminum BBC. I guess I didn't make a point to say either engine choice I am starting at ground zero (my car has an LT1). I have run the numbers over and over, and I have been in touch with about any reasonable priced engine shop in the US. The cheapest turbo LSx engine I could build is a Scoggin Dickey 402LS2 and a single turbo kit which would cost about $21,000 (but not even close to as reliable mainly in block strength). I cannot give a 100% accurate weight without having the engine here, but my calculations come out to about 50-60lbs heavier than a LS1.

topend

I say go all motor much simpler that way.When u see cars running 6`s,7`s ,8`s all motor ,u kinda ask yourself why do i need a turbo??.It`s up to u to decide which path to take.

Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

you don't need a c5r block or warhawk block to run 20 lbs of boost or make 1,000 horsepower. I haven't heard one story of someone cracking a block at that level.

You can go with a 402 ls2 but its not needed, a simple forged 346 from wheel to wheel is around 4 grand, a set of AFR 225's is 2500, a nice single turbo kit-I'll figure high at 7 grand, and a turbo cam, etc will put you around $13,500 add in another 2500 to take car of the fuel system/incidentals and anything else and you're 15 g's. If you deal with a sponsor on this board they can cut you probably a better deal.

topend- who's running a pump gas all motor car that goes 6's, 7's or 8's??

topend

i dont know who ,but im sure it can be done.Not impossible.Why fuel make so much of a difference .U could make 1000 hp with race gas ,pump gas ,or alcohol whats the difference in power??. Are u going to say pump gas is the best???all fuels have their pros-cons.

People spend big money on their setup , so what race gas will break the bank??
Thats like a guy who buys a ferrari and cant afford to put gas in it.

Got Me SOM

iTrader: (2)

The poster of this thread wants a motor that eclipses the 1,000 hp mark that runs on pump gas..

There are no motors on pump gas running those kind of 1/4 mi times for the record.

I'll agree with you on running better gas, running c16 is a good insurance

big difference in what fuel you run, allows more spark timing.

if ya can't afford to pay, then you can't afford to play.

Quickin

If someone were to drop the 1,000 hp 598ci Procharged BBC from FTM into an F-Body built for the drag strip, but still a street car. Like ARE's 8.49 second car.

What 1/4 mile time would 850 RWHP get you?

Its a 91 octane engine. I would say 8 second 1/4 mile times....NO?


.